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markpkessinger

(8,909 posts)

14. I remember an interview I saw with Daniel Ellsberg . . .

Tue Jan 28, 2014, 06:34 PM

Jan 2014

. . . in which Ellsberg said that in juror selection for his federal trial, his attorneys determined that the one demographic they wanted to avoid as much as possible having on the jury -- that is, the one demographic they calculated would be most hostile to Ellsberg's case -- was middle-aged men in corporate middle management (there weren't many women in corporate middle management in 1971). The reason: it was thought that men who had been corporate types for any length of time would have been most likely, at least on a few occasions, by that point in their careers, to have found themselves in a position of having to make 'compromises' with respect to law and/or ethics, and thus would be most resentful of a principled whistleblower. I wonder if that dynamic is at work here?

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Why do some citizens have such hatred for whistle-blowers? [View all] rhett o rick Jan 2014 OP

Authoritarians hate boat rockers of any kind Warpy Jan 2014 #1

Good Points... eom. KoKo Jan 2014 #107

and ego precludes them from ever admitting that they could be or have ever been wrong Puzzledtraveller Jan 2014 #137

Snowden is a little skunk ass punk thief Whisp Jan 2014 #2

Oh fuck did he piss in your bed again? HangOnKids Jan 2014 #11

Snowden doesn't fit the whistleblower definition FunkyLeprechaun Jan 2014 #34

Daniel Ellsberg says he is, bvar22 Jan 2014 #41

Well, you sure convinced me. bvar22 Jan 2014 #35

Thankyou, very gratifying to hear that. n/t Whisp Jan 2014 #36

at least that's a more honest attack Union Scribe Jan 2014 #121

I think a lot of them are born with it quinnox Jan 2014 #3

Yeah Populist_Prole Jan 2014 #40

I think it's acculterated. Not unlike the Valley Girls epidemic of the 80's. nt adirondacker Jan 2014 #124

Because they don't want only a Democratic admin... TroglodyteScholar Jan 2014 #4

Yet that's obviously what Obama wants, delrem Jan 2014 #82

Just FYI not all republicans are that way either nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #5

I totally agree that the split is between authoritarians and non-authoritarians. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #6

Again we differ nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #9

I have lived a long time and have found very few if any conservatives that were open-minded. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #12

Perhaps it has to do with covering politics nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #15

Your "Progressive" friends really aren't, Nadine... ReRe Jan 2014 #61

Yes, yes they are nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #66

Uh... ReRe Jan 2014 #70

No, it is fear, and what it does to the mind nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #72

Ahhhh... ReRe Jan 2014 #79

Oh you welcome nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #85

Because not everyone believes they are whistleblowers. jeff47 Jan 2014 #7

Flawed analogy. Individuals have a right to privacy. Luminous Animal Jan 2014 #10

So they redacted the names and other identifying information first. jeff47 Jan 2014 #13

Are you serious? Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2014 #39

Should gov't be allowed secret interpretations of laws judged in secret courts, delrem Jan 2014 #86

+1 Dark n Stormy Knight Jan 2014 #119

PROPAGANDA. woo me with science Jan 2014 #8

funny that one of the biggest Woo things here is about the NSA. Whisp Jan 2014 #16

I guess you're not too worried about the NSA IveWornAHundredPants Jan 2014 #57

hey, if one is a Stasi-bot, what's to be afraid of, right? Whisp Jan 2014 #80

I remember an interview I saw with Daniel Ellsberg . . . markpkessinger Jan 2014 #14

because Obama is in charge, if Bush were in charge, we'd love these people unconditionally La Lioness Priyanka Jan 2014 #17

Pretty much. neverforget Jan 2014 #30

Hammer meet nail. alarimer Jan 2014 #75

... 840high Jan 2014 #99

They love authority, hate critical thinking and are scared of change. Rex Jan 2014 #18

Yes, but what about the Democrats who have reacted so viscerally to Manning and Snowden? markpkessinger Jan 2014 #21

Yeah seen it from a handful of people that post here. Rex Jan 2014 #28

It really IS a handful BelgianMadCow Jan 2014 #73

yeah, its really important to them, job description, reviews, raises, stuff like that I guess reddread Jan 2014 #136

Not just hatred - its seething rage with some pretty violent rhetoric. riderinthestorm Jan 2014 #19

I thought Daniel Ellsberg was a hero. I think Snowden is a self-aggrandizing punk. 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #20

Daniel Ellsberg disagrees with you n/t markpkessinger Jan 2014 #22

I'm well aware of that. I have the ability to agree with individuals on some matters ... 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #24

On the other hand, Ellsberg's judgement is after experience of putting his life on the line. delrem Jan 2014 #87

I'm not quite sure that having a sound or valid opinion on this discussion is predicated on having o LanternWaste Jan 2014 #126

Then you haven't thought it through. nt delrem Jan 2014 #131

Then by your rules I'm allowed to have an opinion about going to war. Are you? 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #135

You deliberately misinterpret. delrem Jan 2014 #139

Interesting tactic. First claim that you said something you demonstrably did NOT say ... 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #140

This conversation is now officially crazy. delrem Jan 2014 #141

Let's see, you've gone from claiming to have said things you didn't say to claiming that ... 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #142

**BANGS HEAD AGAINST WALL** delrem Jan 2014 #143

Could the difference be based on who was president at the time of the whistle-blowing? nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #62

Nope, the difference is that Ellsberg went to US Senators, the US media, and eventually to trial. 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #67

Shows how times have changed. Ellsberg understands. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #68

After this, therefore because of this. LanternWaste Jan 2014 #127

Given that they treated Manning incredibly inhumanely, I can hardly blame him. alarimer Jan 2014 #76

the people who side with the authoritarians and right wing assholes frwrfpos Jan 2014 #23

Because Obama. WorseBeforeBetter Jan 2014 #25

They are authoritarians. blackspade Jan 2014 #26

Because... "GET OFF MY LAWN !!!" WillyT Jan 2014 #27

Well said. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #60

I think for *most* people it's very traumatic when their bubbles are popped. delrem Jan 2014 #94

Great Points, All !!! WillyT Jan 2014 #95

BartCop has lost his shit over Snowden -- Hell Hath No Fury Jan 2014 #29

Indeed. n/t xocet Jan 2014 #50

Well I think it is a bit more nuanced then what you are talking about. iandhr Jan 2014 #31

Authoritarians also feel threatened by people who are smarter than they are and see what sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #32

Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #45

I think she means when they "lash out", kinda like you did in your post. Didnt you rhett o rick Jan 2014 #51

Noting someone's tone and the content of their post is lashing out? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #65

I know... I had to giggle Whisp Jan 2014 #88

It's pompous to speak about one's experiences with Bush supporters? Are you unaware sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #104

You like Authoritarians? I had the Bush gang in mind. Bush's loyal supporters who sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #100

Not particularly ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #103

So how would you describe Freepers then? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #105

I don't ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #106

Really? We should be cosidering it is THEIR votes that get people like Bush/Cheney and sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #109

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #110

Well, I don't know any Democrats who are 'anti-anything' Democrats do. Who are these sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #111

You. for one ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #114

Ah, the purity test. I wondered how long it would take. You could not answer my question, so you go sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #115

Okay... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #116

Yes, it's your fault. delrem Feb 2014 #144

I don't "Identify" ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #147

I think it's more likely that they lash out because they are afraid. They believe the propaganda rhett o rick Jan 2014 #52

Great post LeftOfWest Jan 2014 #122

Couldn't agree more, and will add one more thing. Waiting For Everyman Jan 2014 #125

I watched a very interesting film regarding this (in a general way) etherealtruth Jan 2014 #33

Sounds interesting. Thanks. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #37

You will need to dig deeper to find those who truly 'hate' Snowden or other thieves. randome Jan 2014 #38

As someone I am certain you would term as a whistle-blower hater ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #42

I appreciate your decent argument. But the choice isnt between the NSA having your personal rhett o rick Jan 2014 #54

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #81

There is no evidence that the NSA program has saved even one life, or prevented anything. alarimer Jan 2014 #78

As with most national security matters ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2014 #84

So if the NSA added an extreme-McAssassination program delrem Feb 2014 #145

"extreme-McAssassination program"? ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #146

No, I didn't just take a "snippet" of your response, delrem Feb 2014 #148

Okay n/t 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #149

they don't treestar Jan 2014 #43

Those that denied that the NSA was spying have had to change their stance rhett o rick Jan 2014 #59

They lack courage and they're reminded of this deficiency by Snowden, Manning, Ellsberg, etc. Smarmie Doofus Jan 2014 #44

I agree. They were raised to follow an authoritarian figure and not think for themselves. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #64

Programming. It starts with the Pledge of Allegiance LittleBlue Jan 2014 #46

Taking the blinders off what the government is actually willing and capable of doing MyNameGoesHere Jan 2014 #47

Fear of scary bogeymen, fear of the people, and fear of rocking the establishment boat. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #48

Has there been some rash of attacks on Michael Hastings? struggle4progress Jan 2014 #49

You bring up exactly what I am talking about. Immediately after his crash rhett o rick Jan 2014 #58

hahahahahaha! Whisp Jan 2014 #90

I notice that you guys really have no come back. You think that ridicule and mocking is rhett o rick Jan 2014 #101

Bwhahahahahahaha! zappaman Jan 2014 #93

No DU isnt authoritarian. Again you must lower yourself to lies. You dont support positions just rhett o rick Jan 2014 #102

Lol! zappaman Jan 2014 #112

oh myyy, I didn't see that till now. Whisp Jan 2014 #117

There is no woo like NSA woo here. Whisp Jan 2014 #89

. Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #133

... heh Whisp Jan 2014 #134

i love whistle blowers iamthebandfanman Jan 2014 #53

+1 nt Adrahil Jan 2014 #91

A big factor is also widespread acceptance of The Big Lie that "We Are At War" Maedhros Jan 2014 #55

Well said.nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #56

You have laid out the basic problem quite clearly RC Jan 2014 #69

+1. nt bemildred Jan 2014 #77

Something to do with equating them with tattletales and snitches. alphafemale Jan 2014 #63

Mushrooms hate the light whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #71

LOL this wins for most passive aggressive post evah! Adrahil Jan 2014 #74

"other issues" bobduca Jan 2014 #96

I can see you to are playing the same game. Adrahil Jan 2014 #97

It was the premise of the OP bobduca Jan 2014 #98

I had assumed you agreed with that characterization... Adrahil Jan 2014 #108

I think Bill Maher said it best ecstatic Jan 2014 #83

Why do some supposed "liberal Democrats" have such hatred for a sitting Democratic president? baldguy Jan 2014 #92

the truth is SO much worse than we can guess or expect, with secrecy we have no bearings reddread Jan 2014 #113

The only thing Snowden blows is chunks. He is no whistleblower. Whisp Jan 2014 #118

I couldn't agree more! What did he reveal that we didn't already know? B Calm Feb 2014 #150

Best I can tell there are three types. JoeyT Jan 2014 #120

I think you covered it pretty well. nm rhett o rick Jan 2014 #123

well said...Recommend! KoKo Jan 2014 #132

Not all whistle-blowers are created equal. riqster Jan 2014 #128

While I may disagree with some specifics, I do agree with your overall point. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #129

I think to some degree that ignorance is a manifestation of misplaced trust. riqster Jan 2014 #130

Depends on if said whistleblower(s) makes their idol look bad. Puzzledtraveller Jan 2014 #138