General Discussion

Octafish

(55,745 posts)

59. When you have to go along or else, it's not democracy.

Tue Jan 28, 2014, 09:31 PM

Jan 2014

The United States of America was founded on a radical idea: That the people, rather than a king, are the ultimate authority. "We the People" are supposed to be the government.

Today, things in the USA have gotten skewed. Only certain people have authority, the Party or the insiders or the Elite. Whatever their name, these few people think they are entitled to know things that the people are not privy to know.

They also make decisions that the people are not "authorized" to know. The holders of the secrets also benefit from their inside information and use their positions of power to see that their cronies are protected and also benefit in secret.

No matter how deep one shoves their head in the sand, that's how things are today. Secret government is contrary to the nation's origins, history and Constitution.

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Historically, there have been authoritarian societies that placed Party Loyalty above all else. [View all] bvar22 Jan 2014 OP

This time is different. Throd Jan 2014 #1

In other words, if you see somethin', SAY somethin' derby378 Jan 2014 #2

Ray-gun and his 11th Commandment were the epitome of this group-think. Scuba Jan 2014 #3

where's YOUR proof? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #4

My "proof" is in the History Books. bvar22 Jan 2014 #7

Oh I am quite familiar...I also smell B.S. very well too! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #8

You are "familiar" with the History Books? bvar22 Jan 2014 #22

No review needed...I reject your assessment out of hand that THIS is one! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #25

Making stuff up again? Well, that IS easier, I guess. bvar22 Jan 2014 #35

YOU did...stop denying it! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #47

Do you really believe that this statement: bvar22 Jan 2014 #129

what I believe is that YOU called the U.S. an Authoritarian state... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #132

Here's... bvar22 Jan 2014 #134

no YOU are the one with the "The U.S. is an Authoritarian Society" card VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #135

You have FAILED to post a link to where I called the US an "Authoritarian Society". bvar22 Jan 2014 #148

+1. Protesting too much maybe? GoneFishin Jan 2014 #122

I think we should have a new rule, the first one to say "Rand Paul" loses. rhett o rick Jan 2014 #45

I think the ones without the guts to Progressive dog Jan 2014 #61

why? Does it upset your constitution? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #69

No because it shows that the discussion has come to an end. Desperation has set in rhett o rick Jan 2014 #104

Yeah for you.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #105

Yes, since you asked, it does 'upset' our Constitution, and yes, when something sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #136

I said "YOURS" ....that word has more than one meaning VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #137

I have no journalistic experience. But thanks. However when someone on a sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #141

rioght..... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #143

You need to have scary guy to herd people the way you want them to go. zeemike Jan 2014 #95

not sure what you are saying ...but okay whatever... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #108

+1 a whole bunch.......nt Enthusiast Jan 2014 #118

That's an odd thing to say Oilwellian Jan 2014 #34

I didn't say it...I am making fun of it! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #109

Now that was funny! sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #107

Freedom for supporters of the government only, for members of one party only,... Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2014 #5

are you saying that folks here who support Obama OKNancy Jan 2014 #6

this is EXACTLY what they suggest... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #10

Oh you better believe much of the hate is directed at Obama Cali_Democrat Jan 2014 #11

Well for some yes you are absolutely right... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #16

Yeah, those 'leftie, commie hippies' who 'hate America'. Is that who you are sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #138

So, you're asking someone to violate DU terms of service? Pathwalker Jan 2014 #144

and I am too smart for her....thanks!! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #147

Excuse me? IF there is someone on this forum who has expressed hatred for the sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #149

Uh huh. LOL. Pathwalker Jan 2014 #152

So there is no hatred on DU for this president as she claimed. Thank you, I didn't sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #155

did I say that? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #145

Did you say what? You said that there are people on DU who have expressed sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #150

pay attention.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #151

If you say "you didn't watch the SOTU" VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #153

Are you mistaking me for someone else? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #156

If you haven't seen the Pres. Obama hatred at DU.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #146

Like teenagers who resent ANY form of authority. Heck, like 2 year olds�.. KittyWampus Jan 2014 #12

exactly like that.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #18

nah... mike_c Jan 2014 #14

actually ....no it isn't. VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #19

What is rediculous is your pathetic Strawman. bvar22 Jan 2014 #13

still ridiculous OKNancy Jan 2014 #17

There are certainly fascists on DU. Scootaloo Jan 2014 #29

Are there any racist "fascists"? n/t ProSense Jan 2014 #30

More than a couple, yes. Scootaloo Jan 2014 #32

There are no fascists on D.U. ConservativeDemocrat Jan 2014 #93

If that's what you want to believe, go ahead Scootaloo Jan 2014 #97

Good policy and fairness fadedrose Jan 2014 #9

There's a frame of reference issue. Igel Jan 2014 #66

Excellent reply. Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #78

Great post. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #125

Don't whine when President Paul signs the liberal hunting permits into law, then. baldguy Jan 2014 #15

BINGO! There's that truth stuff again... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #20

Making stuff up again? bvar22 Jan 2014 #21

But demonizing people who *support* the Party is A-OK? baldguy Jan 2014 #23

I can support the party and still be critical of how the party does things derby378 Jan 2014 #27

But Democrats don't believe in alienating other good Democrats by calling them authoritarians. baldguy Jan 2014 #31

..But YOUR attacks on the "Liberal Democrats" is meant to bring everyubody together? bvar22 Jan 2014 #82

"Liberal Democrats" who channel Rand Paul aren't liberal Democrats. baldguy Jan 2014 #86

"liberal democrats" who support Rand Paul noiretextatique Jan 2014 #124

And yet they continue to be allowed to post here on DU. baldguy Jan 2014 #160

like racist, sexist, homophobic trolls noiretextatique Feb 2014 #163

For your edification baldguy Feb 2014 #164

NO that is NOT what this was is it? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #39

Making stuff up again. bvar22 Jan 2014 #130

Right there plain for all to see... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #131

I think you bank too hard on Paul being the only alternative. Scootaloo Jan 2014 #36

Not "banking on it" either...simply making the appropriate comparison to VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #40

Naw, either Paul would go down a different road to dystopia Scootaloo Jan 2014 #48

I would suggest Somalia! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #51

What the fuck do you have against Somalians? Scootaloo Jan 2014 #52

Good point....but imagine their consternation at him or Michelle Bachmann... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #57

Bachman in Somalia? Scootaloo Jan 2014 #60

well she is dumb as a whole box of them! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #65

Now thats just rediculous quakerboy Jan 2014 #43

I see the dissent from those who criticize the president less as a throwing the party under the bus Ed Suspicious Jan 2014 #80

Then why continually cast supporters of the Democratic Party as fascists? baldguy Jan 2014 #99

Hyperbolic bullshit. blackspade Jan 2014 #94

If you're worried about invoking the authoritarian boogeyman, talk to the OP. baldguy Jan 2014 #98

Authoritarians gets mad when called out into the sunlight. Rex Jan 2014 #114

We saw it under the BFEE, sadly a certain few like to pretend that never happened. Rex Jan 2014 #113

As if that would ever happen. JVS Jan 2014 #119

Agreed LordGlenconner Jan 2014 #139

But those leaders weren't *magic* BrotherIvan Jan 2014 #24

Does Nostradamus want to make a prediction? JoePhilly Jan 2014 #26

"They have all had a Father Figure to which they pledged complete allegiance. " ProSense Jan 2014 #28

I never follow party blindly and never Niceguy1 Jan 2014 #33

There should be a balance. Without SOME party loyalty we have no party and pampango Jan 2014 #37

Yep, and it ain't a pretty picture quinnox Jan 2014 #38

but we do not even come close to those repressive regimes... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #41

not yet, but there are troubling signs we may be headed that way quinnox Jan 2014 #42

No actually the future looks bright.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #44

I have no idea what your first sentence refers to or means, but for many of us, believe it or not quinnox Jan 2014 #49

the Leader of N Korea VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #53

Yes - once we created the Department of Homeland Security Maedhros Jan 2014 #55

When the term "homeland" stops being used, and we go back to "America" or the USA, then I will take quinnox Jan 2014 #63

Actually the NSA goes back to the very early 1900's but you will overlook that! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #67

I'm searching your post for relevance, and am finding none. Maedhros Jan 2014 #89

I like to sneer at those who hold foolish notions... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #100

Which one are you referring to? nt Progressive dog Jan 2014 #46

The twice elected Democratic president is, of course, a fascist Fuhrer figure, like OBVI!!! alcibiades_mystery Jan 2014 #50

Thank you nt Progressive dog Jan 2014 #56

The twice elected Democratic president is, of course, a saint God like figure, like OBVI!!! zeemike Jan 2014 #103

The contemporary USA is specifically excluded from the OP, bvar22 Jan 2014 #133

There is no authority worthy of respect... hunter Jan 2014 #54

i think there is ample proof that loyalty has as often been put to good use mopinko Jan 2014 #58

When you have to go along or else, it's not democracy. Octafish Jan 2014 #59

The U.S.A. has no glorious origins. It's always been rotten. hunter Jan 2014 #116

That's exactly right. We've had to fight for our most important rights. LuvNewcastle Jan 2014 #126

recommend frwrfpos Jan 2014 #62

The Democratic Party can kiss my ass whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #64

You do realize the name of this forum right? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #70

Save your armband for the weak minded n/t whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #71

I have no armband...sorry to disappoint you! VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #72

I support progressive politicians whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #74

So who are you saying does around here? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #76

I'm not whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #79

Uh Zell Miller? and Joe Lieberman is independent... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #81

Nice obfuscation whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #83

Joe was the fucking vice presidential cadidate for the Democrats JEB Jan 2014 #84

VR wants to wish that democrat into the cornfield whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #88

WAS not IS.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #85

"Was not Is" is a meaningless distinction in the context of our conversation whatchamacallit Jan 2014 #87

No it's not...and No I don't VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #101

You do realize what that name means, don't you? sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #140

Yes I do...the real question is...do YOU? VanillaRhapsody Jan 2014 #142

We should be thankful for our whistle blowers JEB Jan 2014 #68

I place loyalty to ideas and an interest in people above all else. Right now, the only party bluestate10 Jan 2014 #73

I guess it's okay, then, LWolf Jan 2014 #75

Don't forget, misogyny. MsPithy Jan 2014 #77

Yeah---I'll remember that the next time the pro-Assangists tell me how the rapist in the msanthrope Jan 2014 #92

Non sequitur. MsPithy Jan 2014 #112

I've been gone all day, but bvar22 is correct KauaiK Jan 2014 #90

thanks, great recommendations quinnox Jan 2014 #96

It's simplistic understanding of history to say that it repeats itself mythology Jan 2014 #106

Yeah this is all about what the govt. is doing to Snowden's life... bobduca Jan 2014 #110

FYI: This is also source for term political correctness on point Jan 2014 #91

Fortunately, that can't happen today. MannyGoldstein Jan 2014 #102

And...there was the long McCarthy and Hoover Era in recent history KoKo Jan 2014 #111

And funny how people forget the BFEE was real and fucked us up totally. Rex Jan 2014 #115

Kicked and Recommended! Enthusiast Jan 2014 #117

yep unreadierLizard Jan 2014 #120

What a load. Bobbie Jo Jan 2014 #121

K & R GoneFishin Jan 2014 #123

K&R!!! Puzzledtraveller Jan 2014 #127

I seem to remember reading something about that. NaturalHigh Jan 2014 #128

Of societies that have ended, please name one that hasn't ended badly? lapfog_1 Jan 2014 #154

That is an interesting point. bvar22 Jan 2014 #157

Yes, as societies descend to chaos or decline lapfog_1 Jan 2014 #158

K&R woo me with science Jan 2014 #159

True. jsr Jan 2014 #161

The use of whistle blower began with My Lai in the sixties Progressive dog Jan 2014 #162