General Discussion

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)

22. Right, because Italy totally wants OUR fugitives hanging around in their country...

Sat Feb 1, 2014, 03:27 PM

Feb 2014

Extradition is (usually) a relatively simple matter when you're talking about extraditing someone back to their home country. When you're talking about extraditing one of your own citizens elsewhere, it's a totally different ballgame politically, unless the evidence is just so overwhelming that everyone knows the the person in question is guilty.

The fact of the matter is that Amanda Knox can never set foot in Italy again (without serving a lengthy prison sentence), so she's been removed from Italian society. If we're willing to assume that she's not a murderer and let her walk free in the US, then we're the ones assuming that risk, not the Italians.

If the shoe were on the other foot (and I firmly believed the defendant was guilty) I'd say, if you want a murderer walking around on your streets, you can have one.

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If the US refuses to extradite Knox, fugitives from justice here should get their asses to Italy. [View all] Nye Bevan Feb 2014 OP

Pft! hobbit709 Feb 2014 #1

yup quinnox Feb 2014 #2

No, but the fact that there's no hard evidence to convict her should. Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #6

If we truly believe that the Italian justice system is comprised of "kangaroo courts", Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #8

Fine then, rip it up. Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #9

I agree. They don't have a modern system of justice even though they pretend to. pnwmom Feb 2014 #81

You mean the treaty of 1937 when Benito was in charge there? hobbit709 Feb 2014 #11

No, I'm thinking of the one that was signed on October 13, 1983, Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #14

You are trying to speak logic, law and evidence to those that are convinced the Italian justice Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #107

She hasn't had a free ride. She spent four years in WeekendWarrior Feb 2014 #7

maybe that is all true, and she is innocent, but she should go appeal her conviction then quinnox Feb 2014 #15

Oh Jesus, another bullshit "face the music" rant. Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #17

I would never put myself in that situation to begin with quinnox Feb 2014 #20

You know what's funny about you? Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #24

Italy is not some Soviet era fascist state, it is a modern Western country quinnox Feb 2014 #29

Oh but of course, a modern, Democratic government that Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #31

I saw someone debunk that in another thread quinnox Feb 2014 #33

Yeah, I know this comes as a big shock to you, but Earthquake prediction is hardly an exact science Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #34

I think Italy is a civilized and modern Western style country, and it would be wrong to allow quinnox Feb 2014 #37

Total arrogance on your part Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #45

Why should she have to do it ohheckyeah Feb 2014 #85

Let me ask you, sked14 Feb 2014 #35

My opinion is, other countries have their own justice systems, and it really is none of our business quinnox Feb 2014 #40

So even though there's a huge lack of evidence, both physical and forensic, sked14 Feb 2014 #44

My opinion is she should have to go to Italy, if Italy asks the USA to do so quinnox Feb 2014 #50

You openly admit that you don't care if she's wrongfully convicted Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #53

I didn't say that. I said she should have to face whatever the justice system in Italy requires quinnox Feb 2014 #57

Yeah, well guess what? Socrates was a wimp. Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #59

It would be wrong to refuse the punishment? Even though he was innocent? sked14 Feb 2014 #60

its a philosophical point quinnox Feb 2014 #61

I don't care what he's leading in, yes, he was a brilliant man, sked14 Feb 2014 #65

BTW, thanks for the rational and civil discussion. sked14 Feb 2014 #70

likewise quinnox Feb 2014 #71

My main issue is that she was falsely arrested, falsely accused by a corrupt prosecutor, sked14 Feb 2014 #55

Nice. I myself actually believe in this thing called justice Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #48

Oh and, what situation would you have never put yourself into in the first place? Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #25

That's obscene cpwm17 Feb 2014 #26

I don't think American citizens are above those in other countries quinnox Feb 2014 #30

Nobody here is saying we're special, sked14 Feb 2014 #32

We're not any more special than any other people on this earth cpwm17 Feb 2014 #36

"I would never put myself in that situation to begin with" Contrary1 Feb 2014 #27

The poster who "would never put themselves in that situation" vanlassie Feb 2014 #66

oh fucking please. cali Feb 2014 #64

Ummmm..... Adrahil Feb 2014 #69

"I would never put myself in that situation to begin with" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #86

at least she didn't go to Russia. Whisp Feb 2014 #18

that has nothing to do with anything, you are mixing apples with oranges quinnox Feb 2014 #23

Would you choose to face a foreign justice system that had already falsely convicted you for murder? pnwmom Feb 2014 #80

Oh, give me a friggin' break WeekendWarrior Feb 2014 #108

Why do you think she comes from an upper class background? Boudica the Lyoness Feb 2014 #94

Whatever. Italy has refused to extradite criminals to the U.S. before because they were candidates Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #3

Article 9 of the extradition treaty allows for extradition to be refused if the death penalty Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #38

I doubt Italy will change its current policy. morningfog Feb 2014 #4

Right, because this would be a first. kcr Feb 2014 #5

If it's a valid extradition request according to the extradition treaty, then yes. Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #10

Italy has violated the treaty before Downtown Hound Feb 2014 #12

Again, Article 9 of the treaty explicitly allows extradition to be refused Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #42

Right, but that's what's being debated, isn't it? kcr Feb 2014 #13

The key word here is "valid". sked14 Feb 2014 #16

Italy has refused to extridite fugitives facing the death penalty in the USA. NutmegYankee Feb 2014 #19

Article 9 of the treaty explicitly allows for that. Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #47

Every country that doesn't have the death penalty does that. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #74

Exactly. Here's one case where it's happened and some Alabama AG was pissed off... Violet_Crumble Feb 2014 #76

Does her actual guilt or innocence matter to you? Comrade Grumpy Feb 2014 #21

The point of an extradition treaty is that extradition takes place upon a valid request. Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #39

Once again, the key word is valid, sked14 Feb 2014 #41

Most guilty people would claim the same thing about their trial and their prosecutor. Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #43

It's fact that the prosecutor was under indictment at the time for sked14 Feb 2014 #51

Again, the whole point of an extradition treaty Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #56

"Just let requests be made and decided on a case-by-case basis" sked14 Feb 2014 #62

If things were that simple, Roman Polanski would be in prison... Hippo_Tron Feb 2014 #72

Well, all requests are automatically valid then using that logic kcr Feb 2014 #52

So if some country convicts, says a president of the US, you think The Straight Story Feb 2014 #49

If it's a country with which we have an extradition treaty, then yes, Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #58

Umm, yes they should refuse... Hippo_Tron Feb 2014 #73

Right, because Italy totally wants OUR fugitives hanging around in their country... Hippo_Tron Feb 2014 #22

First Italy needs to come and get THESE fugitives: mainer Feb 2014 #28

I guess you've never heard of Robert Lady Savannahmann Feb 2014 #46

As far as I know, Italy has not requested the extradition of this person from the United States. Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #54

Several actually. Savannahmann Feb 2014 #68

I don't see anything in those links where Italy requested his extradition from the US. (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #75

So he was refused entry in Costa Rica and detained in Panama because? Savannahmann Feb 2014 #77

Your bolded section refers to extradition from Panama, not the US (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #79

Lady was in Panama when the Interpol warrant was discovered Savannahmann Feb 2014 #82

So why hasn't Italy requested to extradite this person from the US? Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #83

They Have Savannahmann Feb 2014 #84

For starters, there is no such thing as an "Interpol Warrant". Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #87

"... the Italian government still has issued no extradition requests to the United States." Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #88

Actually its not just one person, there's 23 people total they've refused to extradite riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #89

"the Italian government has never asked for the Americans to be extradited" Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #90

My article is more recent than that one so I presume it has more updated information riderinthestorm Feb 2014 #96

fuck that. cali Feb 2014 #63

Oh cali. The constant potty-mouth is a little unbecoming (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #67

Potty mouth? Boudica the Lyoness Feb 2014 #95

Snowden might enjoy Italy a bit better than Russia. JVS Feb 2014 #78

True dipsydoodle Feb 2014 #97

Except in the case of your Madoff analogy, we'd be trying to extradite one of our own JoePhilly Feb 2014 #91

Why should citizenship matter? Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #92

So let's say Putin, via a Russian, court finds a few Americans GUILTY JoePhilly Feb 2014 #93

The first example you mentioned couldn't even attract charges. dipsydoodle Feb 2014 #98

Use the stand in law ... "Hooliganism", which is what Pussy Riot was charged with. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #99

In the case of Pussy Riot hooliganism was appropriate. dipsydoodle Feb 2014 #101

Extradite me to Grammarland. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #103

So you would support us extraditing Russian citizens in that scenario? Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #105

Foreign diplomats are thankfully not petulant children. Hosnon Feb 2014 #100

she didnt get a fair trial Niceguy1 Feb 2014 #102

I've heard Florence is nice. NaturalHigh Feb 2014 #104

why so much hate for this young woman chillfactor Feb 2014 #106