General Discussion

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)

155. I am not judging the judgment, only that the judgment is supportble by the evidence and on the basis

Sun Feb 2, 2014, 04:59 PM

Feb 2014

of respecting the extradition treaty and whatever the Italian evidence rules are. Criminal law is complex, everywhere.

"Beyond a shadow of a doubt" is not even the standard in English criminal law. It is "beyond a reasonable doubt", so maybe I have doubts, but are they reasonable doubts, although we are now discussing the English standard, the Italian standard is obviously different, it is a different language, how would the standard there translate?

___________

PS: to my detractors, Amanda DID turn me down for a date, what ya gonna do?

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There is no Double Jeopardy when you are Convicted at your first trial. Amanda Knox is going to be [View all] Fred Sanders Jan 2014 OP

And the state department should stop it. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #1

Which would create a diplomatic row, where America is essentially telling 60 million Italians that Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #4

I think that is exactly what we should tell them. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #10

Italy is almost a thousand years older that U.S.... RichGirl Jan 2014 #33

Did I say we are better? No I did not. But if all this time they have the system they have hrmjustin Jan 2014 #39

While I agree with your sentiment that is not exactly accurate. CBGLuthier Jan 2014 #42

Italy was not an independent country until the 1860s. tritsofme Jan 2014 #50

IMO JJChambers Jan 2014 #69

Yes, and their justice system is 1000 years old. They haven't moved pnwmom Jan 2014 #90

Totally false... reACTIONary Feb 2014 #135

Your words contradict themselves. "Moving closer" to an adversarial system doesn't mean pnwmom Feb 2014 #138

Nope, not at all... reACTIONary Feb 2014 #139

Fair and modern? Except they have no understanding of logic and science. pnwmom Feb 2014 #140

I see, Itialians are... reACTIONary Feb 2014 #143

Your words, not mine. How can you defend calling a defendant "Luciferina" in a modern, fair court? pnwmom Feb 2014 #144

Ha - My words? reACTIONary Feb 2014 #145

You are incorrect. Their panels consist of two professional judges and several lay judges, pnwmom Feb 2014 #147

Thanks for the claification (nt) reACTIONary Feb 2014 #154

I don't care how old they are. Nt Adrahil Jan 2014 #92

I hate it when America criticizes Russia for discriminating against gays. BlueEye Jan 2014 #95

And what would the reason to suspect be? reACTIONary Feb 2014 #137

Remember lancer78 Feb 2014 #114

Just because something is old TBF Feb 2014 #121

On what basis? OURS? *coughOJcough* *coughZimmiecough* WinkyDink Feb 2014 #134

Double Jeopardy! hrmjustin Feb 2014 #156

The US has refused extradition requests, and been refused extradition request. Life went on, and wen LanternWaste Jan 2014 #37

Why should they stop it??? RichGirl Jan 2014 #20

After the circus they put her through I would say their system is too flawed to send her back. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #25

We can not respect Italian law as long as the Mass Media here has brainwashed most into thinking Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #49

They had little faith in it back in the 70s when I was there. hobbit709 Jan 2014 #51

The Italian justice system convicted their Prime Minister of corruption, there's that. Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #54

Only when it became so obvious and what does that have to do with the current situation? hobbit709 Jan 2014 #57

And the American justice system sent a former Attorney General to prison. Your point? 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #79

Put the shoe on the other foot ? Wash. state Desk Jet Feb 2014 #130

Actually no...she could not be guilty. (eom) StevieM Jan 2014 #110

+10 (nt) reACTIONary Feb 2014 #136

The poster joined in December and has been posting from hate sites about Amanda Knox. pnwmom Jan 2014 #88

Because you attended the trial and heard all the evidence? Or because she's "cute"? WinkyDink Feb 2014 #133

I am gay so the cute thing is oh not applicable! hrmjustin Feb 2014 #157

Locked out of your other thread, hey? nt laundry_queen Jan 2014 #2

For those that missed it... DURHAM D Jan 2014 #3

Because apparently having a contrary opinion is now objectionable on DU. Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #5

Being a sexist is truly "objectionable on DU". DURHAM D Jan 2014 #7

No because you wrre rude to another poster. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #12

Yeah, like that never happens on DU, my post was mild by comparison to many. Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #14

You have had several hides. I know because I was on mirt and saw them. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #17

If you look at the "hides" before, they were misinterpreted as I was posting in response to a topic Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #26

I did not dig around. your hides landed in my mail box. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #36

you want I should kick some hide-prone Fred ass, hrmjustin? Skittles Jan 2014 #52

lol no thats ok my friend. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #55

Now that was very civil, what say you, hrmjustin, will you report him for violence, or was it Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #60

I'll report you for claiming I am a man Skittles Jan 2014 #67

Um if you must know skittles is known for joking like this. hrmjustin Jan 2014 #71

That's Skittles's tag line, dude. Iggo Jan 2014 #107

Can I say yes on hrmjustin's behalf? stevenleser Feb 2014 #129

Wow! Are we threatening people now? brush Jan 2014 #86

Threatening? hrmjustin Jan 2014 #87

I used to rationalize my shortcomings the same way... LanternWaste Jan 2014 #40

Sexism and rudeness is "a contrary opinion"? Yes, it is objectionable on DU. uppityperson Jan 2014 #45

No. Because being a "party girl" and "sex fiend extraordinaire" doesn't make one a "murderess". cherokeeprogressive Jan 2014 #63

Her legal team is preparing an appeal. So I doubt extradition will be an issue for a sabrina 1 Jan 2014 #6

I agree, it will be 90 days before the judgment details are released and Knox may well be in her Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #9

How about ohheckyeah Jan 2014 #8

and the rule thereof! (nt) TacoD Jan 2014 #78

Give it up, Fred. countryjake Jan 2014 #11

I am just analyzing the verdict from the point of view of 2 out of 3 Italian tribunals, but if that Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #13

Two to go Fred. You can do it. HERVEPA Jan 2014 #21

This is analyzing?? countryjake Jan 2014 #30

You're confusing analysis with editorial... hyperbole aside. LanternWaste Jan 2014 #41

There was a great deal of evidence in the 2nd trial, and that evidence pnwmom Jan 2014 #99

I'm not sure why he should 'give it up' Astrad Jan 2014 #34

The sites he's been linking to are hate sites filled with misinformation. pnwmom Jan 2014 #100

There are a ton of problems with this case including the burden of proof Gothmog Jan 2014 #101

There is at least one DUer claiming to be a lawyer pnwmom Jan 2014 #106

Italy still functions under a Napoleonic system nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #113

Napoleonic Code jurisdictions are very strange and US concept of due process do not apply Gothmog Feb 2014 #118

In a non politized case in Mexico nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #119

In the four times I've seen this one article posted today... Lost_Count Jan 2014 #15

Posted four times? Where and by who? Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #18

Well it seems you were at least one of them in your own thread before... Lost_Count Jan 2014 #32

your obsession with Knox is disturbing cali Jan 2014 #16

One man's obsession is another man's truth, I am simply in agreement with the Italian court verdict. Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #19

over and over again, apparently lapfog_1 Jan 2014 #53

Amanda called. She's sorry she stood you up on Prom Night and hopes that you can get over it. 11 Bravo Jan 2014 #83

Based on what evidence? alarimer Jan 2014 #89

Just admit it - Spirochete Feb 2014 #131

Well, she is quite the looker. Throd Jan 2014 #31

The vitriol directed at him Astrad Jan 2014 #38

Exactly. Many seem to just hate the Italian justice system on the basis of one case, that is what Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #44

Haha! Cooley Hurd Jan 2014 #48

uh, no. starting thread after thread on her is just weird. cali Jan 2014 #64

Why the innuendo? Astrad Jan 2014 #72

Yep! Cooley Hurd Jan 2014 #46

I don't know anything about Fred... reACTIONary Feb 2014 #142

Thanks for the shout out, but I do not have any extradorinary understanding of the Italian legal Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #148

Why would she "face the music in Italy" for a bogus trial sked14 Feb 2014 #149

Truly, the trial where she was convicted was not perfect, the DNA trail is sketchy, doubts remain Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #150

The bottom line is why should she go back to a country sked14 Feb 2014 #151

My take on it is simply that Italian law and process has to be respected by the government Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #153

Aren't you the one who started this thread? sked14 Feb 2014 #152

I am not judging the judgment, only that the judgment is supportble by the evidence and on the basis Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #155

So after getting locked out of your previous thread, you're starting over? hobbit709 Jan 2014 #22

The real issue is the burden of proof Gothmog Jan 2014 #23

A criminal laywer, with trial and appeal experience in the criminal courts? Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #27

I have been a lawyer for 30+ years Gothmog Jan 2014 #43

The criminal standard of burden of proof in Italy is this: Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #47

This is a very weak explanation Gothmog Jan 2014 #59

No one is going to force her to go to Italy flamingdem Jan 2014 #24

You REALLY have a thing for Amanda Knox tkmorris Jan 2014 #28

In think the State Department shoulkd stop it gopiscrap Jan 2014 #29

Refresh my memory. Did we extradite these guys? tkmorris Jan 2014 #35

good point questionseverything Feb 2014 #128

No request of extradition by Italy was ever made, so no. Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #132

The Italian court seems like a joke, playing to local sympathies. stg81 Jan 2014 #56

Yes, like the Florida jury that aquitted Zimmerman, that kind of playing to local sympathies? Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #61

ignore stg81 Jan 2014 #62

For some reason I find your cock-suredness amusing. Just sayin'. WillowTree Jan 2014 #58

He's a guilter and based on his use of language pnwmom Jan 2014 #91

Yeah, I noticed that. WillowTree Jan 2014 #97

I wonder atreides1 Jan 2014 #102

There are a number of these very rabid posters, and other people pnwmom Jan 2014 #104

I just gotta say, sked14 Jan 2014 #105

Thank you, sked14. I didn't get interested in this till after they'd been convicted pnwmom Jan 2014 #108

That's exactly what I was thinking and have been thinking this since I first saw the beginnings of Ecumenist Feb 2014 #115

Good grief! bravenak Jan 2014 #65

At least this OP doesn't have 22 edits. hobbit709 Jan 2014 #66

I see he got locked out of the last one. bravenak Jan 2014 #68

"Calling out" another poster is actually against DU rules that you seem to respect ever so much. Fred Sanders Jan 2014 #70

You do not understand what a call-out is REP Jan 2014 #74

When did I ever say I respected rules? bravenak Jan 2014 #75

There is no call out rule on DU. DURHAM D Jan 2014 #77

Thanks. bravenak Jan 2014 #80

You can't find what isn't there. DURHAM D Jan 2014 #82

Right. bravenak Jan 2014 #85

Wrong. DURHAM D Jan 2014 #76

And how would a 200 post, 90 day poster be familiar with old DU rules? X_Digger Jan 2014 #81

LOL DURHAM D Jan 2014 #84

LOL!!! n/t pnwmom Jan 2014 #93

And yet bravenak was convicted by an Italian court of brazen calling-out. Dr. Strange Jan 2014 #96

Where do I turn myself in? bravenak Jan 2014 #109

Because you deserve the best... uppityperson Jan 2014 #103

Lawyers will fight this out in court if Italy requests extradition, which (I'd guess) won't happen struggle4progress Jan 2014 #73

For the honest truth about this case... countryjake Jan 2014 #94

Let me know when we extradite Robert Lady Savannahmann Jan 2014 #98

Nice arguement, does your point fit ITALIAN LAW? rustydog Jan 2014 #111

Correct me, if I do not remember my legal system correctly, nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #112

Thanks for the info. Iggo Feb 2014 #116

We called consulates, nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #117

Good post Gothmog Feb 2014 #120

Of course, you link to two debunked sites. mainer Feb 2014 #122

You really should read the Massei Report, the original trial conviction, there is link Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #123

And you should read what a veteran FBI agent says about the EVIDENCE mainer Feb 2014 #124

I understand the defence postion, that it was only one person involved, the one convicted, but Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #125

How about talking to THESE forensic/FBI experts? mainer Feb 2014 #126

Here's someone who DID read the Massei Report mainer Feb 2014 #127

She DID turn you down for that date snooper2 Feb 2014 #141

I'm not qualified to argue law, but I can say with some confidence she will not be extradited. wyldwolf Feb 2014 #146

wait a minute...this isn't huffington post! madrchsod Feb 2014 #158

From a legal standpoint, I think the fact that the case against Knox is so weak is an issue Gothmog Feb 2014 #159

Not gonna happen. Iggo Feb 2014 #160