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Iterate

(3,021 posts)
42. The first thing you have to ask yourself -Why would anyone care?
Sun Feb 9, 2014, 01:14 PM
Feb 2014

I mean, the amount someone pays for electricity in Australia, Finland, or Cuba never comes up every time solar is mentioned. Why this constant misdirection about Germany, especially since as I've shown the retail price has little-to-nothing to do with solar itself. At first glance, it doesn't make sense.

But it turns out there's a story and a history behind the predictable claim. The first thing to keep in mind is that the electrical utilities worldwide have fine-tuned the most profitable mix of coal-nuclear-NatGas for their production over the past 50 years. The exact proportions vary from place to place. Second point, nuclear and coal in particular are not very flexible in meeting demand fluctuations.

As a utility you can even out demand with cheap rates, inefficient consumer goods for use after the workday peak, power discounts for night-shifts, stores that stay open all night, Las Vegas. Overproduce and overconsume is the American model.

Then along comes the solar wrench in the gears, lopping off the most profitable daytime peak demand. Anything new is expensive to install, but for solar the marginal rate of daytime production is nil. And you don't need a huge industrial infrastructure to produce it. The utilities' profit model is shot; coal is threatened first, but because nuclear power is the least flexible, it perhaps is threatened the most.

Net effect: Coal consumption per capita in the US is more than double that of Germany and remains above the 1965 level.

The 'expensive German electricity' meme got started in about 2000 when the rate increases were voted to reduce consumption and pay for some unrelated programs, but it really took off in the past five years, primarily among coal-nuclear power utility advocates, reporters, and bloggers. The threat to their utilities profit models has not gone unnoticed.

So when you see it mentioned, you know at a glance who you are dealing with. They mention it, and hope no one will understand why it is high. Mention it enough, and hope people will knee-jerk associate solar with high prices. Mainly, mention it and hope people are distracted.

For what it's worth, German drinking water is also the most expensive in the EU. I'm still waiting for that to be brought up, maybe by someone from W.Va.

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Yes, but "Germany gets more sun than the United States"-FOX News JaneyVee Feb 2014 #1
That's a big steaming pile of bovine fecal matter. n/t RoccoR5955 Feb 2014 #14
It's bullshit too. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #24
Of what the morans at Fox don't know, or don't care to tell gLibDem Feb 2014 #25
The only two areas of the US that are close to the amount of sun... BobTheSubgenius Feb 2014 #48
Having lived in Pittsburgh I was impressed enough just knowing that gLibDem Feb 2014 #49
I saw that clip. BobTheSubgenius Feb 2014 #47
Off to the Greatest with ye! nt ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #2
Of course we should subsidize it, but sadoldgirl Feb 2014 #3
Can someone with knowledge of this subject please expain the situation regarding the existing ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #4
I'm slow, but I'll tell you more than you ever wanted to know. Iterate Feb 2014 #8
Perhaps if the US wasn't spending more than $2000 per SECOND on wars 8000 miles away solarhydrocan Feb 2014 #5
We need an upgrade to our grid anyway Champion Jack Feb 2014 #6
This is my stand, and done so as part of a massive public works campaign on the order of ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #9
Agreed Champion Jack Feb 2014 #28
Your relatives are misinformed. Iterate Feb 2014 #7
Thank you for the clarification sadoldgirl Feb 2014 #10
There's that. Also, ..... oldhippie Feb 2014 #11
Only about half of which is for the electricity itself, the rest is for taxes Iterate Feb 2014 #16
And, the average German worker gets a ton more vacation time MH1 Feb 2014 #36
Well yeah, sure. They, like most of the rest of the "developed world", have laws requiring Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #41
The first thing you have to ask yourself -Why would anyone care? Iterate Feb 2014 #42
Except it isn't 3X higher, is it? kristopher Feb 2014 #17
Yes, it is ...... oldhippie Feb 2014 #30
That's odd abelenkpe Feb 2014 #20
No, I didn't say that ..... oldhippie Feb 2014 #31
is that 3X only for what they use above what they produce? MH1 Feb 2014 #37
My last elec bill was 2.28! Love the panels. roody Feb 2014 #32
Think about the cost to the planet. eom roody Feb 2014 #45
How much is it? oldhippie Feb 2014 #46
I want a link. I think your relatives are either gLibDem Feb 2014 #26
Here is a link that debunks the prevailing lies. gLibDem Feb 2014 #29
What if cheri010353 Feb 2014 #27
We built the first grid with cooperatives - wouldn't this be possible for them and us? jwirr Feb 2014 #43
Would you happen to have a source for that image? nt ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #12
Source of the image.. Playinghardball Feb 2014 #19
Thanks, Playinghardball. Looks like it may have origins beyond that page. I'd like to share it ChisolmTrailDem Feb 2014 #39
K&R. I want my oil subsidy taxes transferred to solar. And half my military taxes too. Overseas Feb 2014 #13
China sets new world record for solar installations GuardianUK Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #15
It's tragic that the switch to renewables has been lagging. nt TheMathieu Feb 2014 #18
Actually we are wildly exceeding expectations. kristopher Feb 2014 #34
Then we would be China. They know how to invest in their country. jtuck004 Feb 2014 #21
We dont need subsidies woo22 Feb 2014 #22
welcome to DU gopiscrap Feb 2014 #35
It's pretty simple. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #23
If the solar companies could buy Congress, things would be different. polichick Feb 2014 #33
K&R nt raouldukelives Feb 2014 #38
Yep. n/t DirkGently Feb 2014 #40
Good Question-from Reuters Progressive dog Feb 2014 #44
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