General Discussion

liberalmuse

(18,881 posts)

129. No, not at all.

Sun Feb 9, 2014, 04:12 PM

Feb 2014

I guess what I'm trying to say, and very badly, is that I felt both Allen's and Farrow's open letters were very manipulative, and I detest being so overtly manipulated, thus the "trigger". "Now what's your favorite Woody Allen movie?" Well fuck, it was, "Sleeper", but I guess if I still like any of Allen's movies, I'm a pedo-lover who has contributed towards this woman's pain. Allen's open letter was no better in its condescension towards the Farrows and skirting his affair with Soon-Yi.

That being said, most open letters are manipulative screeds meant to sway the reader in a certain direction and/or point out the error of their ways. I'm uncomfortable with them, and with the entire inflammatory dialogue they've perpetuated, and need to look inside myself to find out the reasons why. Perhaps it's because I don't want to discount Dylan Farrow's very real experience, but I also don't want to point a finger at Allen, labeling him a "pedophile" without more information, and I really don't know how much more information that would take. You can't do one without the other, really. It's actually a horrible thing to not believe a victim who recounts sexual abuse, but it is also a horrible thing to call someone a "pedophile", so there you are.

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Highlight:

Dylan Farrow Responds to Woody Allen: 'Distortions and Outright Lies' [View all] seabeyond Feb 2014 OP

"i am not participating in this thread.", but I'm compelled to post it anyway. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #1

why is this trash? Texasgal Feb 2014 #3

My opinion only PDittie Feb 2014 #5

How does it not illuminate social concern? Texasgal Feb 2014 #7

It allows an exploration of rape culture BainsBane Feb 2014 #9

I'm of the opinion I can think of more than one thing at a time and given the amount of roguevalley Feb 2014 #25

I see. The only thing that matters is whether IYO a discussion "helps Democrats". Cool. nt delrem Feb 2014 #32

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #33

There are serious issues here of whether Allen's power, money, and influence pnwmom Feb 2014 #138

For the same reason all of these posts are, this is entirely irrelevant. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #8

What payday? BainsBane Feb 2014 #10

I'm sorry you feel that way. Texasgal Feb 2014 #11

She isn't. BainsBane Feb 2014 #13

No, you didn't miss anything... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #22

Dylan didn't, Mia did Major Nikon Feb 2014 #70

You linked to Alan Derschowitz denying under oath that such an offer was made. pnwmom Feb 2014 #140

I read the link. It is a weasely non-denial to be honest. Bonobo Feb 2014 #143

Dershowitz's version is brilliantly pathetic Major Nikon Feb 2014 #165

just a smoking gun reddread Feb 2014 #160

+ 1 red dog 1 Feb 2014 #190

You should read it again Major Nikon Feb 2014 #161

can I rec this post? reddread Feb 2014 #162

The only thing you can rec is the thread Major Nikon Feb 2014 #163

So what is to be made of the fact that Mia offered her silence for 7 million dollars? Bonobo Feb 2014 #195

At least 3 different people said she was physically and emotionally abusive towards her kids Major Nikon Feb 2014 #203

Furthermore, Soon-Yi knows the deal. Bonobo Feb 2014 #206

It's an appeal to emotion fallacy made by those who have a hard time making an argument without them Major Nikon Feb 2014 #211

You obviously can't be bothered to read the court record BainsBane Feb 2014 #220

Much more than a family fight ... MindMover Feb 2014 #18

just curious who is looking for a payday Skittles Feb 2014 #23

go to huffingtonpost and read the court ruling on this. Then apologize. roguevalley Feb 2014 #26

So, I suppose, you consider other rehashings of incidents from over two decades ago delrem Feb 2014 #29

That's just sad. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #31

I don't find it sad. I find it repugnant. nt delrem Feb 2014 #35

repugnant and creepy. Whisp Feb 2014 #81

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" reusrename Feb 2014 #68

Do you feel the same way when a man comes forward twenty years later pnwmom Feb 2014 #139

Excellent question! nt Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #207

I'll wait for Kathy Griffin's opinion on this itsrobert Feb 2014 #2

No, let's talk Justin! Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #85

I'm sure as hell interested.. Cha Feb 2014 #4

I believe Dylan and I have been boycotting Woody Allen productions since the Soon-Yi outrage.... kickysnana Feb 2014 #6

The whole Soon-Yi thing... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #24

What? CSStrowbridge Feb 2014 #46

Marrying one of your children's siblings is very creepy (nt) Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #56

"Creepy" is too shorthand Scootaloo Feb 2014 #66

Thanks Scoot... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #67

Yep, it goes waaay beyond just being creepy. It's pathological. reusrename Feb 2014 #69

That works both ways Major Nikon Feb 2014 #71

Just curious, but did you think about what you just posted? reusrename Feb 2014 #73

I don't think you know about Mia's associations or you didn't put much thought into your post Major Nikon Feb 2014 #74

What is it supposed to tell me, exactly? reusrename Feb 2014 #75

You're the one asking me if I thought about what I posted Major Nikon Feb 2014 #77

What does it tell you? BainsBane Feb 2014 #78

I'm trying to figure out what you just said or meant. nt Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #212

If that's true... Major Nikon Feb 2014 #214

What? nt Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #216

I think Mia was to blame, too, pnwmom Feb 2014 #221

Allen loves therapy Major Nikon Feb 2014 #222

Allen didn't initiate that therapy. A therapist in the house to see another child pnwmom Feb 2014 #224

I wouldn't let any of my grandchildren awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #218

And he's been in therapy all his life, and he half admitted a penchant for 12 year olds Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #210

Yes indeed. nt Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #209

Same here. The whole thing about him taking nude pics of a girl he was playing parent to... Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #208

Thanks seabeyond - I've read all your posts about this & find them therapeutic. AnotherMother4Peace Feb 2014 #12

jumping and hurtlin' over all the other posters and tacklin' you in seabeyond Feb 2014 #16

....tears - that's all - tears.... Dylan is very brave & I'm glad she has her family's support nt AnotherMother4Peace Feb 2014 #20

. seabeyond Feb 2014 #21

I was shocked to find that he had been allowed to adopt two more daughters pnwmom Feb 2014 #141

Yes, I have seen and read some of those posts. sheshe2 Feb 2014 #14

I believe Dylan and I believe Allen is a sick fuck that Whisp Feb 2014 #15

Why is there a need to believe anyone? Shivering Jemmy Feb 2014 #27

Really? Texasgal Feb 2014 #28

No, that I can understand. Shivering Jemmy Feb 2014 #38

I find trying to understand Texasgal Feb 2014 #40

One can choose to resist rape culture BainsBane Feb 2014 #41

I support all that Shivering Jemmy Feb 2014 #48

It would be nice if people could come forward without negative repercussion BainsBane Feb 2014 #52

I think it's because money talks. People are impressed by power, fame and money. Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #213

I think we pick sides on things like this LostOne4Ever Feb 2014 #44

+1 very well stated. n/t jaysunb Feb 2014 #126

You're just trying to create a distraction pintobean Feb 2014 #127

I value your 2 cents more than pretty much any other post I've seen on this topic. 11 Bravo Feb 2014 #133

If someone ever accuses you of molestation, pray others don't think like you Democat Feb 2014 #99

Dylan's story is supported by others. Whisp Feb 2014 #113

I've got the solution to this whole mess snooper2 Feb 2014 #17

Woody already took a polygraph. HERVEPA Feb 2014 #36

You didn't bother reading the OP did you? BainsBane Feb 2014 #37

Did she... CSStrowbridge Feb 2014 #47

Who is her mother accused of sexually molesting? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #65

her brother, on the other hand, was sentenced for it reddread Feb 2014 #128

I thought he took only one arranged by his own lawyer, and refused the one the cops offered? nt Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #215

The victim must be heard .. if we do not listen, we are a lost civilization ... MindMover Feb 2014 #19

Thanks for posting this. TDale313 Feb 2014 #30

Aw, jeez... madinmaryland Feb 2014 #34

This is the statement of a child abuse victim BainsBane Feb 2014 #39

Oh-kay. nt madinmaryland Feb 2014 #45

WTF is that supposed to mean? BainsBane Feb 2014 #49

One person said there was no evidence of manipulation vs a team that investigated for months Bonobo Feb 2014 #50

The state commissioned the investigation and then discredited it when they didn't like the results. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2014 #91

WTF is that supposed to mean?? madinmaryland Feb 2014 #58

Yes, it has been proven that Woody Allen's allegations against Mia are bogus BainsBane Feb 2014 #64

Silencing voices CSStrowbridge Feb 2014 #54

You aren't considering evidence BainsBane Feb 2014 #57

The court did conclude Mia was not a perfect mother BainsBane Feb 2014 #60

These kids that have been coached, they don't grow up remembering stuff that didn't happen. reusrename Feb 2014 #72

Seriously liberalmuse Feb 2014 #42

Amen. complain jane Feb 2014 #43

Dylan was violated & is speaking about it, how does this not help others in similar situations? AnotherMother4Peace Feb 2014 #53

It's a trigger. liberalmuse Feb 2014 #62

You'd be okay with it if it was a trigger warning on the articles, so you could avoid them? cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #76

No, not at all. liberalmuse Feb 2014 #129

I believe that survivors deal with trauma in different ways cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #131

Allen is the only one I see being "highly manipulative" & he has been for a long time. AnotherMother4Peace Feb 2014 #102

I see this thread has made some people very uncomfortable. That is a good thing. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #51

Some of us mzteris Feb 2014 #55

yes, the turmoil, the pain. I see it, too -- yanno what they say: Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #59

Sometimes it hurts too much mzteris Feb 2014 #61

True. I believe I am watching that happen to someone on this site. They are chained Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #63

This is old news. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #79

"Dylan is the absuer now" BainsBane Feb 2014 #80

And yet, nothing you said addressed the point I made. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #82

Which points of victim blaming did I not address? BainsBane Feb 2014 #84

If the court thought he was so guilty, the court should've charged him. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #88

Uninformed, completely and your claims are without merit. Jefferson23 Feb 2014 #83

No. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #86

Cut the bullshit, I am not the judge, I read what the judge decided. I read the record. Jefferson23 Feb 2014 #87

Cut it yourself, and I don't care what you do. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #89

Typical dump and run. n/t Jefferson23 Feb 2014 #90

shameful calling an abused child, the abuser. she has the right to speak the rest of her life. every seabeyond Feb 2014 #92

That is so logic-challenged. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #93

seeing how i received a pm from another duer saying how hurtful your post was, seabeyond Feb 2014 #94

Maybe that poster should've pm'd me, and not you. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #98

the issue is not about a protected forum. it is about considering others seabeyond Feb 2014 #101

If you thought the topic was so painful, that considering others is a priority Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #109

how many people addressed you about exactly the same thing? about me? hmmmm seabeyond Feb 2014 #110

What is that supposed to mean? Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #111

ahhhhh, you went to the little groups popular little diss, when no other "comeback" is available. seabeyond Feb 2014 #112

No, there is YOU and BainsBane who claim such a thing. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #114

jefferson, la taz and starry do not count? ha ha seabeyond Feb 2014 #115

Covered that, guess you didn't read the post. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #118

uh hu seabeyond Feb 2014 #119

it is offensive to call a woman, a woman. OMG....., lmao. par with calling a victim the abuser? seabeyond Feb 2014 #116

Oh, I forgot, you're such an expert on English usage. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #117

another uh hu, and a resorting to the same old diss. ba hahaha. sad seabeyond Feb 2014 #120

i guess if you were a man, then being called woman would be offensive. seabeyond Feb 2014 #121

Interesitng isn't it BainsBane Feb 2014 #124

ya know. what a fuckin' hoot. ya. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #125

Far from it BainsBane Feb 2014 #95

as always, you say it much better than i. more thorough. me? call it out and walk away. thanks. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #97

Oh baloney, see post #98. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #100

You assume Woody Allen is guilty rather than innocent Democat Feb 2014 #103

i do not need to pray i will not be accused. i do not behave grossly inappropriately with children, seabeyond Feb 2014 #106

It's unreal. JTFrog Feb 2014 #130

It is the single worst thing I have ever read about this case BainsBane Feb 2014 #132

if goldmans father kept talking about his sons murder by OJ, would he be as bad as the murder? seabeyond Feb 2014 #134

A particularly egregious example of rape culture BainsBane Feb 2014 #135

Maybe the worst part is it makes sexual abuse seem like a trivial thing, no big deal. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #136

And the Academy Award for most twisted abuse defender goes to... Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #96

A personal attack, how original. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #105

The victim is now the perpetrator??? Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #104

You don't think one person could possibly ever be in both roles? Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #107

This is me Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #108

There's the First Amendment treestar Feb 2014 #122

At least six people have said as much BainsBane Feb 2014 #123

I didn't see where anyone claimed that pintobean Feb 2014 #145

Actually she said BainsBane Feb 2014 #167

I can read. I assume you can, as well. pintobean Feb 2014 #171

Bullshit BainsBane Feb 2014 #199

Well, I, for one, am gonna' stick up for you, WFE BellaKos Feb 2014 #137

I like this part where you say: Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #142

Well, I'm glad you enjoyed your laugh. BellaKos Feb 2014 #144

oh, observations, is it? Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #154

that was the in my face i picked up too. all the evidence ect... cant judge. people he knows seabeyond Feb 2014 #146

i re read it. that was so god damn insulting. in the "guise" of rational thought. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #148

Rational thought BellaKos Feb 2014 #152

none of that has anything to do with what the 6 or so people in this subthread was talking about. seabeyond Feb 2014 #153

My initial post was a response made directly to Waiting for Everyman. n/t BellaKos Feb 2014 #156

your initial comment was.... i am going to back you on this. to wfe. seabeyond Feb 2014 #158

then you believe, even if allen raped dylan, for her to speak out now makes her just as bad? seabeyond Feb 2014 #147

No insult meant. BellaKos Feb 2014 #149

people in this subthread spoke out because it was stated that even IF allen raped her, her talking seabeyond Feb 2014 #150

seabeyond BellaKos Feb 2014 #155

she said whether true or not. whether he molested or not. so he molest... what dylan did is AS bad. seabeyond Feb 2014 #164

and to make it really clear. telling me i have been hurt by men, hence this is why i seabeyond Feb 2014 #151

I'm not playing. You can reference my previous responses if you like. n/t BellaKos Feb 2014 #157

i am not playing. but i see you refuse to take ownership, too. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #159

Calling an survivor of sexual assault an "abuser" is also emotional BainsBane Feb 2014 #168

What a nice surprise, Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #166

Strawmen? BainsBane Feb 2014 #169

Do you see the words *I* *don't* *think* in that sentence you quoted? Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #172

More evasion BainsBane Feb 2014 #174

The most ridiculous overblown drivel ever posted on this board. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #175

Stating that regardless of whether Dylan was abused or not, JTFrog Feb 2014 #176

This is why people say that women's issues can't be discussed on DU. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #177

I guess that's true if you can't discuss the issues without being horribly offensive. JTFrog Feb 2014 #179

Is your name Dylan Farrow? Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #180

Did you send a letter to Dylan Farrow? JTFrog Feb 2014 #181

Your point was nonexistent and beaten to death yesterday. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #182

And I can tell you how offensive your post was. JTFrog Feb 2014 #183

From two days ago, addressed twice. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #184

"Beaten to death." JTFrog Feb 2014 #185

And the offended are all from the same group. pintobean Feb 2014 #186

No they weren't. JTFrog Feb 2014 #187

We are all human beings BainsBane Feb 2014 #196

Are you saying the jury was not human? Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #205

As a "shit stirrer" I'm small potatoes. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #188

All of your angst toward my "pals" JTFrog Feb 2014 #189

"Angst", that's funny. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #192

You're entitled to your opinion, JTFrog Feb 2014 #194

That your post wasn't hidden BainsBane Feb 2014 #200

Shows it wasn't offensive to the community. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #201

You said "regardless" BainsBane Feb 2014 #198

(sigh) Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #202

Oh, and there is also this. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #219

"regardless of what he did or didn't do, I don't think Dylan, Mia, and Ronan are any better. " bettyellen Feb 2014 #173

+ 1 red dog 1 Feb 2014 #191

"dylan is the abuser now"--this entire post is a projectile vomit of rape culture nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #204

If Dylan Farrow was lying, then Allen could sue in court for defamation Gothmog Feb 2014 #170

Dyland Has Until Approximately Age 48 To Sue Woody in Connecticut for Sexual Abuse Upward Feb 2014 #217

i have no idea who did what to whom, if at all RedstDem Feb 2014 #178

I'll chime in btrflykng9 Feb 2014 #193

How do you know what her motives are? BainsBane Feb 2014 #197

The reason Dylan wrote the letter now is because seeing that piece of shit honored redqueen Feb 2014 #223