General Discussion

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)

165. No one is bringing up compassion.

Tue Feb 11, 2014, 02:25 PM

Feb 2014

As I see it, there are four moral and ethical issues here:

A) Assuming that the condemned is in fact guilty of the offense of which he/she is being executed, is it morally right for the state to murder, in a premeditated fashion, the guilty?

B) How can the state be 100% sure that everyone (not anyone) it executes is in fact guilty of the crime of which he/she is being executed (murdered with knowledge aforethought).

C) Is the death penalty applied equally to all condemned person regardless of socio-economic background, race, status, etc.?

D) Does the death penalty act as a deterrent even if A, B, and C are satisfied 100% ?

If there is a tinge of doubt with any of the above, then the logical conclusion is that the death penalty is not a just solution in our criminal justice system.

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Condemned man's last words as he died by lethal injection: "I feel my whole body burning" [View all] Redfairen Feb 2014 OP

I will admit I'm conflicted on cases like this xfundy Feb 2014 #1

i believe it does address it, we dont leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #5

We have an (odd to me) requirement that the convicted must understand what is being done to him Recursion Feb 2014 #36

Punitive justice. enlightenment Feb 2014 #154

"I will admit I'm conflicted on cases like this" MMcGuire Feb 2014 #131

Welcome to DU sir! OriginalGeek Feb 2014 #180

Back from a welcome break MMcGuire Feb 2014 #190

Maybe it's just me, but I see a significant difference between....... WillowTree Feb 2014 #2

�I feel my whole body burning.� yea cause you're on your way to hell leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #3

Well, aren't you just a tough guy. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #15

you know what i'm not ..... a murderer leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #51

Of course you are malaise Feb 2014 #54

I am with you 100000% ann--- Feb 2014 #57

the 1st sentence is about the dumbest thing ive heard complete total bullshit. im no more guilty leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #68

If you celebrate the execution as you are doing... Orrex Feb 2014 #97

But they are not. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #153

A judge and jury also reached the conclusion that Cameron Todd Willingham needed to be eliminated Major Nikon Feb 2014 #208

+10000000000000000 Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #161

Who the hell is showing compassion for this guy? NuclearDem Feb 2014 #69

this is compassion leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #74

So fucking what? NuclearDem Feb 2014 #77

out for blood?, that was the murderers not me. i would rather everyone get along. like rodney king leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #83

And your priorities are just plain evil. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #100

your problem is with the state not me leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #113

Oh my problem is with both. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #114

im done with you and your name calling - leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #119

Much as your priorities seem to inflate revenge over that of justice... LanternWaste Feb 2014 #146

nope im done . we feel differently you call it whatever makes you feel better. leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #150

This is a list of the civilized countries which still have the death penalty Major Nikon Feb 2014 #219

that's using your definition of civilized. my definition inculdes the us leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #225

You can also include Saudi Arabia, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan Major Nikon Feb 2014 #234

total bs - leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #235

Basic literacy... Major Nikon Feb 2014 #236

is this all about you having the last word ? i think the dp is human and i dont see anything in leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #237

So, let's have the state be the arbiter of who it murders, is that what you're saying? Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #160

someone needs to set punishment as long as people commit crimes leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #191

Um, I hate to break it to you ... Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #193

then call the police and have him arrested leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #205

That was my point. Woosh. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #223

so did you call the police? leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #226

No. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #241

None for you? OriginalGeek Feb 2014 #181

you wont find me killing anyone either because there is a death penalty leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #238

Well, if that's the only reason.... OriginalGeek Feb 2014 #243

That's cold, even by cold standards. With just a tinge of tyrannical religiosity. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #24

no, cold is beating a store clerk to death with a baseball bat making his wife a widow and his leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #75

You're a terrible person. LeftyMom Feb 2014 #45

you ought to aim your hate at the murderer . as for being ashamed maybe u should look in the miror leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #50

Are you drunk? LeftyMom Feb 2014 #78

nope why ? leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #81

Because I was hoping for your sake you had an excuse. nt LeftyMom Feb 2014 #82

i dont need one. i didnt commit the crime i didnt hand or carry out the sentence leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #84

Your sense of ethics matches your skills at language. LeftyMom Feb 2014 #87

yea youre just so superior arent you leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #122

Morally and ethically, yes. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #163

You have equalled yourself to the person by insulting them back IMO. L0oniX Feb 2014 #108

Wow you're a lefty AND a lib. fascinating. nt. yodermon Feb 2014 #48

what do the names have to do with what i said. i cant be a liberal and think a murderer is leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #53

Maybe they're "graded" on a curve in Ohio? cui bono Feb 2014 #127

You know it's threads like these that demonstrate to me Soundman Feb 2014 #60

i know, he and his 2 buddies commit murder, i make a comment regard the execution leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #72

No one is bringing up compassion. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #165

I can answer those. Chan790 Feb 2014 #183

Thank you. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #188

Whatever, Soundman Feb 2014 #218

You can't analyze data for events that haven't happened. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #224

This would satisfy the most hard hearted among us if it was on Tee Vee warrant46 Feb 2014 #63

I hear that Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #71

Prefacing this by saying I am against the death penalty. ScreamingMeemie Feb 2014 #4

Years ago I worked as a hospital orderly in an radiology department KansDem Feb 2014 #89

I took IV medication for ten days that burned Ilsa Feb 2014 #126

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind davidn3600 Feb 2014 #6

As an enlightened society we need to be better than this otherwise we are just sinking into arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #7

Medicalizing executions are NOT more humane JCMach1 Feb 2014 #8

We are supposed to be better than them. And yet we lower ourselves to their level. Th1onein Feb 2014 #9

I'll give you that one.... Lost_Count Feb 2014 #64

Barbaric and wrong, The civilized world decided this some time ago. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #10

As usual, we're late to the ballgame. nt Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #167

Lifelong solitary confinement, zero human contact. That is my alternative to capital punishment. tritsofme Feb 2014 #11

You think that is less "cruel and unusal" than just killing them? cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #13

At least it does give the ability to correct a false conviction. I think solitary is also MillennialDem Feb 2014 #28

there was no false conviction here leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #76

I'm not familiar with this particular case. The only time I would be for the death penalty is if MillennialDem Feb 2014 #88

one confessed he other was on a store surveillance camera leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #91

Still not good enough. Especially 20 something year old video evidence. If the condemned admits it MillennialDem Feb 2014 #92

We're not talking about just this incident. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #168

No, that is why I think it is superior to "just killing them" tritsofme Feb 2014 #59

Unusual is a matter of precedent. Chan790 Feb 2014 #187

Solitary confinement is inhumane. PlanetaryOrbit Feb 2014 #14

Solitary confinement for more than a few months is torture. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #16

That also fails the test of cruel and unusual nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #86

I disagree. I think it is fitting punishment. tritsofme Feb 2014 #206

An eye for an eye, will leave everybody blind nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #207

You speak as though this is settled law. It certainly is not. tritsofme Feb 2014 #210

So torture is legal is in the Constitution? nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #211

Show me where solitary confinement has been ruled unconstitutional, thanks. tritsofme Feb 2014 #212

Show me where torture has been ruled constitutional nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #213

Definitely one of the strangest exchanges I've encoutered in 10 years on DU. tritsofme Feb 2014 #214

I don't know where you get off thinking depriving someone of mental stimulus and social contact NuclearDem Feb 2014 #216

Where do killers get off thinking when they murder? tritsofme Feb 2014 #227

Solitary confinement with zero human contact is torture. Iggo Feb 2014 #95

So the complaint is that he had to feel pain for 10 seconds? cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #12

How long where his victims in pain for? HipChick Feb 2014 #17

"If the problem is 10 seconds of pain, just give them anesthesia and put them to sleep." NuclearDem Feb 2014 #19

because we should not set our standards according to what the worst do ? and yes, it is cruel JI7 Feb 2014 #22

^^^This^^^ Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #169

You are pro DP. nt Logical Feb 2014 #43

Absolutely! cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #67

See, therein lies the problem. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #96

Lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #103

So how does the death penalty fit the crime? nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #116

death for death cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #117

So what's your stance on drones that take out Heywood J Feb 2014 #120

So because I am for killing people who have been convicted... cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #136

There is no such thing as without a shadow of a doubt RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #166

lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #173

Prove me wrong. nt RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #178

LOL even more cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #182

You accuse me of thinking I'm always right RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #199

lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #200

Well, you've established that you can't form a response. RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #215

You can't communicate with a brick wall. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #222

But that just means more dead people. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #132

You lost me.... cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #138

Umm...no, life imprisonment and the death penalty are *not* the same thing. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #140

One is death by force, one is death by time. Both are death. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #142

The state has no business in speeding up the death of anyone not an imminent threat to life. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #144

Didn't I call this precisely wheN I posted my original response to the OP.... cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #147

Thankfully it's gone away in several states recently. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #148

Right....well hypothetically I'm not ok with him killing all those people. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #149

Are you saying I'm okay with James Holmes killing those people? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #158

Nothing but death is absolute (and ironically, this statement) Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #175

So you live in Biblical Times. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #171

LOL, bet you are a great person. Look up the innocence project and let me.... Logical Feb 2014 #118

Yep, you are absolutely right....everyone convicted of murder is innocent. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #139

You are too clueless on this topic to have an intelligent..... Logical Feb 2014 #151

Yep, they follow our liberal, democratic ideals very closely. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #156

Really, which countries? We can compare! n-t Logical Feb 2014 #204

Some are. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #186

So it's OK to occasionally execute innocent people then? jeff47 Feb 2014 #203

If you are for it, it should still be done humanely treestar Feb 2014 #61

10 seconds of pain is plenty humane. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #66

If the point is to get revenge on them for the killing they did treestar Feb 2014 #70

Has nothing to do with revenge, has to do with punishment. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #93

It should be equal though treestar Feb 2014 #109

All people like you want revenge. Nothing else! nt Logical Feb 2014 #152

Who gives a fuck? Jesus would. Rex Feb 2014 #159

Oh Lord, we're bringing Jesus into the discussion....on DU?!?! lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #174

I'm against the death penalty, but if it had to be done, call Anton Chigurh. backscatter712 Feb 2014 #18

The movie dramatizes the killing power of cattle guns. It often doesn't kill the animal. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #27

I suppose you'd better bleed the convict out quick... backscatter712 Feb 2014 #239

Why couldn't an overdose of anesthesia be used as the execution method? PlanetaryOrbit Feb 2014 #20

Some states do that. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #21

hospitals are full of anesthetics...heck, the dentist has them. Sheepshank Feb 2014 #155

WHy is this so hard? When animals are euthanized BlueStreak Feb 2014 #41

That's exactly how lethal injection is supposed to be carried out. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #65

Why do we keep hearing about problems with this? BlueStreak Feb 2014 #98

There's no universal drug cocktail. Different states do it differently. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #99

That's an excuse, not an answer BlueStreak Feb 2014 #110

"Do no harm." Heywood J Feb 2014 #121

What am I missing here? BlueStreak Feb 2014 #125

There are ways that require no medical professional to breach ethics. Heywood J Feb 2014 #129

I am sorry. I am still not getting it. BlueStreak Feb 2014 #134

Because no medical professional with ethics would do that. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #145

Well, OK. Why can't the medics use the same anesthetic that is used in hospitals? BlueStreak Feb 2014 #162

Becuase it is not in their scope of practice nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #179

I agree any execution is a barbaric way for any society tro behave. I'm agin it. But BlueStreak Feb 2014 #194

Because the company that produces fenobarbital is NOT selling it to the Prison system nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #195

It has to do with what triggers the human body to breathe. Heywood J Feb 2014 #246

Many drug companies refuse to sell the drugs to the prisons davidn3600 Feb 2014 #42

Having a metallic or funny taste in your mouth after IV injection is common. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #23

I don't support capital punishment, but I think the Soviet way was better Recursion Feb 2014 #25

Seriously? You've never heard of a botched execution by firing squad? Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #29

I've only heard of that for mass executions Recursion Feb 2014 #31

Yep MillennialDem Feb 2014 #34

Thanks. Soviet method it is. (nt) Recursion Feb 2014 #37

Sure is possible to survive firing squad. Unlikely but possible. Many WW2 videos show MillennialDem Feb 2014 #30

Yes, it happens with mass executions Recursion Feb 2014 #32

Still possible. And doesn't address my question of why not use a guillotine at that point? MillennialDem Feb 2014 #35

That's another idea Recursion Feb 2014 #38

Brain can remain conscious for even longer with firing squad / soviet method. MillennialDem Feb 2014 #39

The electric chair is the most efficient way of rendering brain death. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #40

Looking at this from a Kohlberg standpoint... Recursion Feb 2014 #44

I think the answer to all of this is to realize the disgusting nature of capital punishment. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #46

I'm totally with you there Recursion Feb 2014 #47

In practice, however, it's a human barbeque. Heywood J Feb 2014 #123

As long as the sponge is wet... backscatter712 Feb 2014 #240

So was hanging and the guillotine. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #49

The death penalty is wrong and should be abolished. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #26

So? That's how revenge works out sometimes. Revenge is all the death penalty is. flvegan Feb 2014 #33

Capital punishment is barbaric and should be abolished. nt ladjf Feb 2014 #52

We are a sick society JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #55

Yes, we are ann--- Feb 2014 #58

The death penalty is ann--- Feb 2014 #56

I am anti-death penalty, but I don't put much stock in the words of murderers Tom Ripley Feb 2014 #62

Yup. HappyMe Feb 2014 #73

Could stabbing to death a college student in Oklahoma City seveneyes Feb 2014 #79

Yes, but I hope you're not saying that you want us to be like them. n/t Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #192

Not at all seveneyes Feb 2014 #196

Okay, I misunderstood you. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #198

he's what these charmers did leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #80

If primitive states absolutely must kill people Warpy Feb 2014 #85

i was under the impression that we were supposed to demonstrate a higher level of humanity than dembotoz Feb 2014 #90

I have a feeling it's working exactly as intended. Iggo Feb 2014 #94

I think the executed convict got the better end of the deal Elmergantry Feb 2014 #101

I got the feeling you do not understand nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #105

I think you're missing the point. Iggo Feb 2014 #106

Sounds like he was reporting on the feeling of dying right Rex Feb 2014 #102

Some kind of system-wide neuropathy? Adsos Letter Feb 2014 #128

Yes kinda. The brain was alive long enough to feel the body dying all at once. Rex Feb 2014 #157

i am amused to see the blood lust along with the little ads to buy valentine hearts dembotoz Feb 2014 #104

Sweet, right? Iggo Feb 2014 #112

yeah sweet dembotoz Feb 2014 #141

Wouldn't a heroin over dose be more humane? For that matter... L0oniX Feb 2014 #107

Yes it would. Iggo Feb 2014 #111

Either that or drug corps are pushing for expensive execution chems. L0oniX Feb 2014 #115

Or here's a better idea: Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #133

I am against capital punishment. L0oniX Feb 2014 #137

It still seems better than the chair or the gas chamber. pintobean Feb 2014 #124

Good riddance.. EvilAL Feb 2014 #130

How quaint. n/t Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #197

Indeed. n/t EvilAL Feb 2014 #245

State sanctioned murder is cruel and unusual punishment. NCTraveler Feb 2014 #135

Why would we believe criminals who are being executed? FarCenter Feb 2014 #143

Support the death penalty and you support killing innocents. RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #164

It isn't punishment, it's self protection HoustonDave Feb 2014 #170

So what happens when we innevitably nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #185

Lethal injection can be done humanely. We euthanize animals humanely all the time. kestrel91316 Feb 2014 #172

The problem is they are not getting Fenobarbital nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #189

pentobarbital shouldn't do that, should not need any other drugs. enough pento alone will kill Sunlei Feb 2014 #176

With this execution, they didn't use pentobarbitol. backscatter712 Feb 2014 #242

Not good, I have always been against the death penalty gopiscrap Feb 2014 #177

have no sympathy for this type of murder timweidman Feb 2014 #184

why not go old school RedstDem Feb 2014 #201

I'm sorry but I don't really care. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #202

Cruel and Unusual punishment is against the US Constitution nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #209

A few points of contention. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #228

In this thinking the US is alone among advanced ecnomies nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #230

No I didn't. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #244

That's why the victims of crimes aren't handing down the verdicts. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #217

I have no problem with an impartial jury system. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #220

You know those "families of the victims" you claim to care so much about? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #221

No one ever said it would bring a person back. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #229

You do know that many families nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #231

How is it justice for society? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #232

"You could hear this torture this man's going through and it just really sticks with you." magical thyme Feb 2014 #233