General Discussion

HoustonDave

(60 posts)

170. It isn't punishment, it's self protection

Tue Feb 11, 2014, 02:35 PM

Feb 2014

No matter what, there is only ONE way ever found throughout history of separating the worst criminals from society so they can never, ever, commit more crimes. Life in prison can be escaped (and is, with fairly great regularity!) but no executed criminal has ever come back and committed more crimes. DP isn't punishment and sure isn't rehabilitation (except in the sense that the executee is terminally reformed.) I don't favor it when there is seriously disputable evidence like sole witnesses, but when someone indisputably committed a heinous crime such as described here...no matter what method is used, it will not last as long as it probably did for the victim and any momentary burning sensation, metallic taste, or pain, is just part of the process.

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Condemned man's last words as he died by lethal injection: "I feel my whole body burning" [View all] Redfairen Feb 2014 OP

I will admit I'm conflicted on cases like this xfundy Feb 2014 #1

i believe it does address it, we dont leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #5

We have an (odd to me) requirement that the convicted must understand what is being done to him Recursion Feb 2014 #36

Punitive justice. enlightenment Feb 2014 #154

"I will admit I'm conflicted on cases like this" MMcGuire Feb 2014 #131

Welcome to DU sir! OriginalGeek Feb 2014 #180

Back from a welcome break MMcGuire Feb 2014 #190

Maybe it's just me, but I see a significant difference between....... WillowTree Feb 2014 #2

�I feel my whole body burning.� yea cause you're on your way to hell leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #3

Well, aren't you just a tough guy. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #15

you know what i'm not ..... a murderer leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #51

Of course you are malaise Feb 2014 #54

I am with you 100000% ann--- Feb 2014 #57

the 1st sentence is about the dumbest thing ive heard complete total bullshit. im no more guilty leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #68

If you celebrate the execution as you are doing... Orrex Feb 2014 #97

But they are not. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #153

A judge and jury also reached the conclusion that Cameron Todd Willingham needed to be eliminated Major Nikon Feb 2014 #208

+10000000000000000 Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #161

Who the hell is showing compassion for this guy? NuclearDem Feb 2014 #69

this is compassion leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #74

So fucking what? NuclearDem Feb 2014 #77

out for blood?, that was the murderers not me. i would rather everyone get along. like rodney king leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #83

And your priorities are just plain evil. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #100

your problem is with the state not me leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #113

Oh my problem is with both. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #114

im done with you and your name calling - leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #119

Much as your priorities seem to inflate revenge over that of justice... LanternWaste Feb 2014 #146

nope im done . we feel differently you call it whatever makes you feel better. leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #150

This is a list of the civilized countries which still have the death penalty Major Nikon Feb 2014 #219

that's using your definition of civilized. my definition inculdes the us leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #225

You can also include Saudi Arabia, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan Major Nikon Feb 2014 #234

total bs - leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #235

Basic literacy... Major Nikon Feb 2014 #236

is this all about you having the last word ? i think the dp is human and i dont see anything in leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #237

So, let's have the state be the arbiter of who it murders, is that what you're saying? Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #160

someone needs to set punishment as long as people commit crimes leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #191

Um, I hate to break it to you ... Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #193

then call the police and have him arrested leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #205

That was my point. Woosh. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #223

so did you call the police? leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #226

No. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #241

None for you? OriginalGeek Feb 2014 #181

you wont find me killing anyone either because there is a death penalty leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #238

Well, if that's the only reason.... OriginalGeek Feb 2014 #243

That's cold, even by cold standards. With just a tinge of tyrannical religiosity. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #24

no, cold is beating a store clerk to death with a baseball bat making his wife a widow and his leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #75

You're a terrible person. LeftyMom Feb 2014 #45

you ought to aim your hate at the murderer . as for being ashamed maybe u should look in the miror leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #50

Are you drunk? LeftyMom Feb 2014 #78

nope why ? leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #81

Because I was hoping for your sake you had an excuse. nt LeftyMom Feb 2014 #82

i dont need one. i didnt commit the crime i didnt hand or carry out the sentence leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #84

Your sense of ethics matches your skills at language. LeftyMom Feb 2014 #87

yea youre just so superior arent you leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #122

Morally and ethically, yes. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #163

You have equalled yourself to the person by insulting them back IMO. L0oniX Feb 2014 #108

Wow you're a lefty AND a lib. fascinating. nt. yodermon Feb 2014 #48

what do the names have to do with what i said. i cant be a liberal and think a murderer is leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #53

Maybe they're "graded" on a curve in Ohio? cui bono Feb 2014 #127

You know it's threads like these that demonstrate to me Soundman Feb 2014 #60

i know, he and his 2 buddies commit murder, i make a comment regard the execution leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #72

No one is bringing up compassion. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #165

I can answer those. Chan790 Feb 2014 #183

Thank you. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #188

Whatever, Soundman Feb 2014 #218

You can't analyze data for events that haven't happened. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #224

This would satisfy the most hard hearted among us if it was on Tee Vee warrant46 Feb 2014 #63

I hear that Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #71

Prefacing this by saying I am against the death penalty. ScreamingMeemie Feb 2014 #4

Years ago I worked as a hospital orderly in an radiology department KansDem Feb 2014 #89

I took IV medication for ten days that burned Ilsa Feb 2014 #126

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind davidn3600 Feb 2014 #6

As an enlightened society we need to be better than this otherwise we are just sinking into arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #7

Medicalizing executions are NOT more humane JCMach1 Feb 2014 #8

We are supposed to be better than them. And yet we lower ourselves to their level. Th1onein Feb 2014 #9

I'll give you that one.... Lost_Count Feb 2014 #64

Barbaric and wrong, The civilized world decided this some time ago. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #10

As usual, we're late to the ballgame. nt Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #167

Lifelong solitary confinement, zero human contact. That is my alternative to capital punishment. tritsofme Feb 2014 #11

You think that is less "cruel and unusal" than just killing them? cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #13

At least it does give the ability to correct a false conviction. I think solitary is also MillennialDem Feb 2014 #28

there was no false conviction here leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #76

I'm not familiar with this particular case. The only time I would be for the death penalty is if MillennialDem Feb 2014 #88

one confessed he other was on a store surveillance camera leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #91

Still not good enough. Especially 20 something year old video evidence. If the condemned admits it MillennialDem Feb 2014 #92

We're not talking about just this incident. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #168

No, that is why I think it is superior to "just killing them" tritsofme Feb 2014 #59

Unusual is a matter of precedent. Chan790 Feb 2014 #187

Solitary confinement is inhumane. PlanetaryOrbit Feb 2014 #14

Solitary confinement for more than a few months is torture. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #16

That also fails the test of cruel and unusual nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #86

I disagree. I think it is fitting punishment. tritsofme Feb 2014 #206

An eye for an eye, will leave everybody blind nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #207

You speak as though this is settled law. It certainly is not. tritsofme Feb 2014 #210

So torture is legal is in the Constitution? nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #211

Show me where solitary confinement has been ruled unconstitutional, thanks. tritsofme Feb 2014 #212

Show me where torture has been ruled constitutional nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #213

Definitely one of the strangest exchanges I've encoutered in 10 years on DU. tritsofme Feb 2014 #214

I don't know where you get off thinking depriving someone of mental stimulus and social contact NuclearDem Feb 2014 #216

Where do killers get off thinking when they murder? tritsofme Feb 2014 #227

Solitary confinement with zero human contact is torture. Iggo Feb 2014 #95

So the complaint is that he had to feel pain for 10 seconds? cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #12

How long where his victims in pain for? HipChick Feb 2014 #17

"If the problem is 10 seconds of pain, just give them anesthesia and put them to sleep." NuclearDem Feb 2014 #19

because we should not set our standards according to what the worst do ? and yes, it is cruel JI7 Feb 2014 #22

^^^This^^^ Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #169

You are pro DP. nt Logical Feb 2014 #43

Absolutely! cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #67

See, therein lies the problem. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #96

Lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #103

So how does the death penalty fit the crime? nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #116

death for death cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #117

So what's your stance on drones that take out Heywood J Feb 2014 #120

So because I am for killing people who have been convicted... cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #136

There is no such thing as without a shadow of a doubt RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #166

lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #173

Prove me wrong. nt RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #178

LOL even more cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #182

You accuse me of thinking I'm always right RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #199

lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #200

Well, you've established that you can't form a response. RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #215

You can't communicate with a brick wall. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #222

But that just means more dead people. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #132

You lost me.... cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #138

Umm...no, life imprisonment and the death penalty are *not* the same thing. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #140

One is death by force, one is death by time. Both are death. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #142

The state has no business in speeding up the death of anyone not an imminent threat to life. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #144

Didn't I call this precisely wheN I posted my original response to the OP.... cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #147

Thankfully it's gone away in several states recently. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #148

Right....well hypothetically I'm not ok with him killing all those people. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #149

Are you saying I'm okay with James Holmes killing those people? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #158

Nothing but death is absolute (and ironically, this statement) Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #175

So you live in Biblical Times. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #171

LOL, bet you are a great person. Look up the innocence project and let me.... Logical Feb 2014 #118

Yep, you are absolutely right....everyone convicted of murder is innocent. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #139

You are too clueless on this topic to have an intelligent..... Logical Feb 2014 #151

Yep, they follow our liberal, democratic ideals very closely. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #156

Really, which countries? We can compare! n-t Logical Feb 2014 #204

Some are. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #186

So it's OK to occasionally execute innocent people then? jeff47 Feb 2014 #203

If you are for it, it should still be done humanely treestar Feb 2014 #61

10 seconds of pain is plenty humane. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #66

If the point is to get revenge on them for the killing they did treestar Feb 2014 #70

Has nothing to do with revenge, has to do with punishment. cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #93

It should be equal though treestar Feb 2014 #109

All people like you want revenge. Nothing else! nt Logical Feb 2014 #152

Who gives a fuck? Jesus would. Rex Feb 2014 #159

Oh Lord, we're bringing Jesus into the discussion....on DU?!?! lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #174

I'm against the death penalty, but if it had to be done, call Anton Chigurh. backscatter712 Feb 2014 #18

The movie dramatizes the killing power of cattle guns. It often doesn't kill the animal. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #27

I suppose you'd better bleed the convict out quick... backscatter712 Feb 2014 #239

Why couldn't an overdose of anesthesia be used as the execution method? PlanetaryOrbit Feb 2014 #20

Some states do that. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #21

hospitals are full of anesthetics...heck, the dentist has them. Sheepshank Feb 2014 #155

WHy is this so hard? When animals are euthanized BlueStreak Feb 2014 #41

That's exactly how lethal injection is supposed to be carried out. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #65

Why do we keep hearing about problems with this? BlueStreak Feb 2014 #98

There's no universal drug cocktail. Different states do it differently. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #99

That's an excuse, not an answer BlueStreak Feb 2014 #110

"Do no harm." Heywood J Feb 2014 #121

What am I missing here? BlueStreak Feb 2014 #125

There are ways that require no medical professional to breach ethics. Heywood J Feb 2014 #129

I am sorry. I am still not getting it. BlueStreak Feb 2014 #134

Because no medical professional with ethics would do that. nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #145

Well, OK. Why can't the medics use the same anesthetic that is used in hospitals? BlueStreak Feb 2014 #162

Becuase it is not in their scope of practice nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #179

I agree any execution is a barbaric way for any society tro behave. I'm agin it. But BlueStreak Feb 2014 #194

Because the company that produces fenobarbital is NOT selling it to the Prison system nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #195

It has to do with what triggers the human body to breathe. Heywood J Feb 2014 #246

Many drug companies refuse to sell the drugs to the prisons davidn3600 Feb 2014 #42

Having a metallic or funny taste in your mouth after IV injection is common. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #23

I don't support capital punishment, but I think the Soviet way was better Recursion Feb 2014 #25

Seriously? You've never heard of a botched execution by firing squad? Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #29

I've only heard of that for mass executions Recursion Feb 2014 #31

Yep MillennialDem Feb 2014 #34

Thanks. Soviet method it is. (nt) Recursion Feb 2014 #37

Sure is possible to survive firing squad. Unlikely but possible. Many WW2 videos show MillennialDem Feb 2014 #30

Yes, it happens with mass executions Recursion Feb 2014 #32

Still possible. And doesn't address my question of why not use a guillotine at that point? MillennialDem Feb 2014 #35

That's another idea Recursion Feb 2014 #38

Brain can remain conscious for even longer with firing squad / soviet method. MillennialDem Feb 2014 #39

The electric chair is the most efficient way of rendering brain death. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #40

Looking at this from a Kohlberg standpoint... Recursion Feb 2014 #44

I think the answer to all of this is to realize the disgusting nature of capital punishment. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #46

I'm totally with you there Recursion Feb 2014 #47

In practice, however, it's a human barbeque. Heywood J Feb 2014 #123

As long as the sponge is wet... backscatter712 Feb 2014 #240

So was hanging and the guillotine. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #49

The death penalty is wrong and should be abolished. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #26

So? That's how revenge works out sometimes. Revenge is all the death penalty is. flvegan Feb 2014 #33

Capital punishment is barbaric and should be abolished. nt ladjf Feb 2014 #52

We are a sick society JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #55

Yes, we are ann--- Feb 2014 #58

The death penalty is ann--- Feb 2014 #56

I am anti-death penalty, but I don't put much stock in the words of murderers Tom Ripley Feb 2014 #62

Yup. HappyMe Feb 2014 #73

Could stabbing to death a college student in Oklahoma City seveneyes Feb 2014 #79

Yes, but I hope you're not saying that you want us to be like them. n/t Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #192

Not at all seveneyes Feb 2014 #196

Okay, I misunderstood you. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #198

he's what these charmers did leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #80

If primitive states absolutely must kill people Warpy Feb 2014 #85

i was under the impression that we were supposed to demonstrate a higher level of humanity than dembotoz Feb 2014 #90

I have a feeling it's working exactly as intended. Iggo Feb 2014 #94

I think the executed convict got the better end of the deal Elmergantry Feb 2014 #101

I got the feeling you do not understand nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #105

I think you're missing the point. Iggo Feb 2014 #106

Sounds like he was reporting on the feeling of dying right Rex Feb 2014 #102

Some kind of system-wide neuropathy? Adsos Letter Feb 2014 #128

Yes kinda. The brain was alive long enough to feel the body dying all at once. Rex Feb 2014 #157

i am amused to see the blood lust along with the little ads to buy valentine hearts dembotoz Feb 2014 #104

Sweet, right? Iggo Feb 2014 #112

yeah sweet dembotoz Feb 2014 #141

Wouldn't a heroin over dose be more humane? For that matter... L0oniX Feb 2014 #107

Yes it would. Iggo Feb 2014 #111

Either that or drug corps are pushing for expensive execution chems. L0oniX Feb 2014 #115

Or here's a better idea: Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #133

I am against capital punishment. L0oniX Feb 2014 #137

It still seems better than the chair or the gas chamber. pintobean Feb 2014 #124

Good riddance.. EvilAL Feb 2014 #130

How quaint. n/t Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #197

Indeed. n/t EvilAL Feb 2014 #245

State sanctioned murder is cruel and unusual punishment. NCTraveler Feb 2014 #135

Why would we believe criminals who are being executed? FarCenter Feb 2014 #143

Support the death penalty and you support killing innocents. RedCappedBandit Feb 2014 #164

It isn't punishment, it's self protection HoustonDave Feb 2014 #170

So what happens when we innevitably nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #185

Lethal injection can be done humanely. We euthanize animals humanely all the time. kestrel91316 Feb 2014 #172

The problem is they are not getting Fenobarbital nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #189

pentobarbital shouldn't do that, should not need any other drugs. enough pento alone will kill Sunlei Feb 2014 #176

With this execution, they didn't use pentobarbitol. backscatter712 Feb 2014 #242

Not good, I have always been against the death penalty gopiscrap Feb 2014 #177

have no sympathy for this type of murder timweidman Feb 2014 #184

why not go old school RedstDem Feb 2014 #201

I'm sorry but I don't really care. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #202

Cruel and Unusual punishment is against the US Constitution nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #209

A few points of contention. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #228

In this thinking the US is alone among advanced ecnomies nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #230

No I didn't. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #244

That's why the victims of crimes aren't handing down the verdicts. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #217

I have no problem with an impartial jury system. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #220

You know those "families of the victims" you claim to care so much about? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #221

No one ever said it would bring a person back. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #229

You do know that many families nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #231

How is it justice for society? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #232

"You could hear this torture this man's going through and it just really sticks with you." magical thyme Feb 2014 #233