General Discussion

Squinch

(58,927 posts)

90. And how are you going to determine that? Test scores? Say Johnny

Tue Feb 11, 2014, 08:02 PM

Feb 2014

has a very low IQ and teacher X teaches him half of what a child with a medium IQ would learn this year. So that teacher is considered to be substandard. However, with any other teacher Johnny would have learned a twentieth of what a child with a medium IQ would learn. But too bad, we need to boot that teacher. (This is a VERY common occurrence.)

How about the teacher with a class of children in which 6 regularly don't get enough to eat, 7 are living in shelters, so god knows what is going on in their lives, 4 have emotional disabilities and behavior problems, and the other 12 are doing OK. Half of the children in that class don't make the standards on the standardized tests. Guess which half. So that teacher needs to be judged to be substandard. (Again, this is a VERY common occurrence.)

So you are you going to determine which teachers are good and which are bad?

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We Shouldn't Reward Teachers ... [View all] Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 OP

Teachers are paid very well and given tremendous respect... Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #1

Tremendous respect? sharp_stick Feb 2014 #3

I like the part where he says they are paid -very- well. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #4

Yeah, because they are. Them's the facts... Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #17

I wish you would put me on ignore. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #18

*HUGS* Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #27

You are out of your mind. Are_grits_groceries Feb 2014 #34

Here are the facts... Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #89

Epic benefits? mcar Feb 2014 #92

You are still out of your mind. Are_grits_groceries Feb 2014 #94

Health insurance, sick days, vacation, pensions, unions, tenure, months off ever year... Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #99

You call these benefits epic? titaniumsalute Feb 2014 #110

After reading his posts Drahthaardogs Feb 2014 #104

I do NOT like the race to the bottom, and teachers are not even in the race... Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #112

You didn't have a good teacher did you? Aerows Feb 2014 #96

Good enough to teach me about Ad Hominem arguments. nt Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #98

Not well enough, actually n/t Aerows Feb 2014 #103

The total hours that we actually work brings us lower than minimum wage Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2014 #144

OMG $45K/YR! EPIC!!!! JaneyVee Feb 2014 #151

Do you have a link to support your claims? cyberswede Feb 2014 #29

I'm sure they have a lovely anecdote all ready jeff47 Feb 2014 #32

I'm guessing there's no link to support the claim. MADem Feb 2014 #51

I hope ..... oldhippie Feb 2014 #57

oops... cyberswede Feb 2014 #65

It's a common error ..... oldhippie Feb 2014 #76

I quit reading when the link tried to equate teaching to public accounting joeglow3 Feb 2014 #66

Do you mean the first article? cyberswede Feb 2014 #71

I addressed that joeglow3 Feb 2014 #79

Using "homework" hours doesn't count... IllinoisBirdWatcher Feb 2014 #75

I agree with the top number joeglow3 Feb 2014 #80

People do not understand that for every hour spent in the classroom with students, JDPriestly Feb 2014 #67

I was just thinking about that the other day. senseandsensibility Feb 2014 #93

Are you kidding me? spartan61 Feb 2014 #56

That's why Unions are good for America. Maedhros Feb 2014 #74

120K/yr? Really One_Life_To_Give Feb 2014 #85

Bullshit. LWolf Feb 2014 #107

Please cite your sources for this titaniumsalute Feb 2014 #109

His source is his ass... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #113

LOL...I gave you a big fat HEART for that comment... titaniumsalute Feb 2014 #115

Well thank you... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #119

NO worries my friend titaniumsalute Feb 2014 #125

And peace to you. nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #129

I'm curious to know where you live... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #124

I get to school at 6.45 am and I stay late then Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2014 #143

You have some shitty friends joeglow3 Feb 2014 #5

Friends? sharp_stick Feb 2014 #11

Well, duh joeglow3 Feb 2014 #14

Hey!!! nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #38

I think the vast majority respect teachers... Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #15

I guess that depends on sharp_stick Feb 2014 #35

No they don't. Are_grits_groceries Feb 2014 #37

The closer you get to a teacher the more respect you probably will give them But kmlisle Feb 2014 #60

Paid well? Seriously? Are_grits_groceries Feb 2014 #7

paid -very- well and given -tremendous- respect ... Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #9

Are you in the US? cyberswede Feb 2014 #16

thank you cyberswede. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #22

On that note... malthaussen Feb 2014 #41

If that rule were applied to a lot of parents, the parents would be forced into starvation. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #68

It's hard to produce results without the proper tools. reusrename Feb 2014 #21

You forgot the sarcasm thingie. n/t Jefferson23 Feb 2014 #26

Sorry but you don't know squat about teaching. upaloopa Feb 2014 #28

How much is very well? roody Feb 2014 #44

That's bullshit HERVEPA Feb 2014 #47

I was paid $25K a year when I taught high school. WilliamPitt Feb 2014 #48

But gee, Bill, wasn't that like, 1930? malthaussen Feb 2014 #54

The average american teacher, regardless the state, earns high 40's. nt Demo_Chris Feb 2014 #100

In LA most teachers have graduate degrees, but they are not paid nearly as well as other JDPriestly Feb 2014 #63

Tremendous respect for those who deserve it. Kablooie Feb 2014 #77

Snork! Squinch Feb 2014 #88

Teachers used to get tremendous respect DamnYankeeInHouston Feb 2014 #97

I made more money driving a truck than my son does teaching high school. B Calm Feb 2014 #108

Just because you are getting pissed on... hunter Feb 2014 #120

Yes! It's not the fault of teachers that other professions aren't unionized. cyberswede Feb 2014 #123

This is such an important point. And, teachers a losing much that they had Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2014 #152

No, teachers are being used as scapegoats. madfloridian Feb 2014 #126

You have no idea of which you speak. WinkyDink Feb 2014 #127

holy shit Kali Feb 2014 #130

Yes and no Recursion Feb 2014 #131

I wish that I was paid very well but Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2014 #139

Do you work for the Heritage Foundation? Initech Feb 2014 #150

When we can throw them under the Bus? One_Life_To_Give Feb 2014 #2

Why Johnny can't read? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #69

Plus 1,000 Blue_In_AK Feb 2014 #122

Thank you gopiscrap Feb 2014 #6

and You are welcome on behalf of my brother and his wife who are both teachers Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #8

It's amazing the shit she has to put up with gopiscrap Feb 2014 #10

I disagree FreeJoe Feb 2014 #12

semantics. reward as opposed to EARNED. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #13

I don't disagree that ... FreeJoe Feb 2014 #20

ugh. please put me on ignore. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #24

How the hell are you going to measure it. Test scores??? Give me a break. HERVEPA Feb 2014 #49

Lets see if you can guess how my job performance is measured. joeglow3 Feb 2014 #136

And how... Red State Prisoner Feb 2014 #83

And how are you going to determine that? Test scores? Say Johnny Squinch Feb 2014 #90

If you can't determine that, why does it matter who teaches? Recursion Feb 2014 #133

You have missed the point. I am not saying that there is no way to judge a teacher by Squinch Feb 2014 #134

Well, personally I've never dealt with a merit pay model as simplistic as you describe Recursion Feb 2014 #141

See my reply to your other post. It's not easy to fix it when those who are in a position Squinch Feb 2014 #146

A reward is something optional el_bryanto Feb 2014 #19

Problem - define "teaching well". Teaching is not a production line. haele Feb 2014 #52

Your post is very well thought out and expressed. senseandsensibility Feb 2014 #64

Great post Chiquitita Feb 2014 #81

Then what are teachers paid for? The2ndWheel Feb 2014 #84

No one can define "parenting well" either. Good parents have bad kids, and vice versa. haele Feb 2014 #87

Very true. Nobody is trying to figure out what to pay parents though The2ndWheel Feb 2014 #114

Thank you FreeJoe Feb 2014 #105

The issue I have is that due to budgeting, the administrations almost always use student performance haele Feb 2014 #121

Allow me to explain why it "isn't easy:" LWolf Feb 2014 #111

Most teachers are disillusioned Rosa Luxemburg Feb 2014 #142

My wife retired after 31+ years of teaching and Packerowner740 Feb 2014 #23

I don't have a problem with paying great teachers better than poor teachers. Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #25

Please, put me on ignore. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #30

I've never used Ignore and never will. Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #31

I am so glad nothing anyone says to you online upsets you the slightest. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #36

Measured how???? HERVEPA Feb 2014 #50

Asking that question validates the principle... malthaussen Feb 2014 #53

Agree. That was actually my point. No good way to measure. HERVEPA Feb 2014 #73

Here is one example of how it can be done: Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #58

Yuck and Yuck HERVEPA Feb 2014 #72

Hmm... Still problems with that method haele Feb 2014 #78

So... the "boring" teachers will do what, exactly, to get their hands on that "reward"? Smarmie Doofus Feb 2014 #59

Do you think it is possible for poor teachers to improve themselves? Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #61

Dang me! malthaussen Feb 2014 #33

I had ONE "bad" teacher. Out of 15+ years of school. ONE. raven mad Feb 2014 #39

In 4th grade, I had one that was absolutely loony tunes. TheMathieu Feb 2014 #42

thank you for sharing that Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #43

Agreed. Merit pay is a horrible policy. TheMathieu Feb 2014 #40

yes. thank you. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #45

Besides, "merit" pay brings in the question of evaluation... malthaussen Feb 2014 #46

How about this? Nye Bevan Feb 2014 #62

Looks to me like about 1/2 of Jackson's schools were considered to be performing badly Squinch Feb 2014 #91

Then why does it matter who teaches? Recursion Feb 2014 #132

I dunno, how do you "rate" a physician? malthaussen Feb 2014 #135

Well, quite a few of those are rated by outcomes Recursion Feb 2014 #138

It isn't that you can't come up with a way to do that, it's that the people who never set foot in a Squinch Feb 2014 #137

Then fix that. Hell, every system I've seen already fixes that. Recursion Feb 2014 #140

Teachers and teachers unions are not in a position to fix it. There are literally billions Squinch Feb 2014 #145

Fair point, but you do have to remember the context here Recursion Feb 2014 #147

The world of education today bears little resemblence to the world that Squinch Feb 2014 #148

One more observation about this: you describe Squinch Feb 2014 #149

Don't forget the administrators and school boards teachers have to put up with, too. RC Feb 2014 #55

All I can add is.... charlives Feb 2014 #70

k&r Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #82

Yeah, we don't do that very well in this country, do we? stillwaiting Feb 2014 #86

Any "Democrat" that disparages teachers Aerows Feb 2014 #95

Thank you. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #102

I started teaching in 1971 49jim Feb 2014 #101

'71 here, also! Same salary in PA, 50 miles N. of Philly. WinkyDink Feb 2014 #128

Thank you. nt LWolf Feb 2014 #106

Maybe we should call them babysitters. justgamma Feb 2014 #116

! Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #117

K & R ctsnowman Feb 2014 #118