General Discussion

cui bono

(19,926 posts)

427. Okay, so you don't understand this at all I see.

Wed Feb 12, 2014, 03:54 PM

Feb 2014

This is my last post to you in this thread.

You have ended up here, saying that quotes are facts and can be used as evidence. That is true but that is an entirely different situation. If you don't get that you really need to go learn more.

So Obama said he was against free trade during the campaign. But he secretly pushes for TPP in reality.

What is the fact there?

You're seriously going to tell me that him saying he was against free trade is a fact that can be used to show that he is against free trade? That quote would be used to show evidence that he lied.

So that's fine, use the words as facts, but not as lies. Once you see that the campaign websites and promises, speeches and quotes are not true and do not match up with what they do/did in reality, they need to be discounted. But this site does not discount them. Therefore that site is rubbish.

If you can't understand how words don't mean anything in this situation since they don't reflect the actual record of the politician then you need to go get better educated.

And with that I'm done. Because you either really can't understand this, in which case there's no discussing it with you, or you are purposely being obtuse in an effort to try and make us believe Hillary is liberal, which she isn't, or you are loony tunes.

So bye. Go ahead and have the last word. Make it good.

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Did you hear Crystal Ball's rant on the Cycle asking Hillary not to run? [View all] mfcorey1 Feb 2014 OP

k & fuckin r! n/t wildbilln864 Feb 2014 #1

Strongly agree! HERVEPA Feb 2014 #2

times 8 trillion roguevalley Feb 2014 #120

At least 20 times 8 trillion fadedrose Feb 2014 #138

As I recall, Obama's campaign made themselves look like they were primarilyl JDPriestly Feb 2014 #490

Same here. PFunk Feb 2014 #256

Krystal knows Hillary works for corporate America just like the president. JRLeft Feb 2014 #3

Warren encouraged Hillary to run The The Feb 2014 #22

Hillary will win and you and I will continue to lose as corporations are given more power. JRLeft Feb 2014 #27

Unless of course the truth be told that Hillary Clinton is to the Left of President Obama... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #32

Based on what evidence? Both Hillary and Obama are corporatists. JRLeft Feb 2014 #37

Here you go.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #97

I'm not getting that graph. Which does the red dot represent? Social or economic issues? n/t cui bono Feb 2014 #101

Left and right.....Left is Left...Liberal... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #105

I get the left and right, that's obvious. I asked what the red dot represents. I can't figure out cui bono Feb 2014 #112

Its the sum of ALL the issues.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #113

It may be accurate for Paul, but it most definitely is not for Obama and Clinton. cui bono Feb 2014 #117

Yes it is.....denial is not a river in Egypt and Americans are not as "lefty" as those on DU... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #119

No it's not. What is so left about TPP, cutting SS, spying on American citizens, drone strikes cui bono Feb 2014 #121

Like I say....that is a myopic view.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #126

What makes the graph correct? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #129

He is NOT....they have him as a Conservative leaning Libertarian.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #130

I am not talking about my view, I am talking about the view of the person who made that graph Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #135

Yes I do.....actually... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #137

He has some batshit crazy positions as well Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #143

Yes he does....but not as batshit as some....sorry... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #147

How is the top/bottom range calculated? This isn't the traditional measurement for these graphs cascadiance Feb 2014 #386

It is the same graph whopis01 Feb 2014 #431

It is NOT the same graph! Where is the point in the repeated graph where one end is AUTHORITARIAN cascadiance Feb 2014 #501

Ah - but they are the same. You just have to recognize whopis01 Feb 2014 #515

A populist-liberal whose financial support comes from Goldman Sachs and Walmart? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #336

No because we don't have campaign finance reform.. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #423

Bill Clinton's presidency was a feast for the financial sector. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #454

AND Bill Clinton is... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #456

No it is not. I did NOT "base it on ONE issue...or even a couple issues. cui bono Feb 2014 #133

there are more than issues than those that makes a person "left" sorry.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #134

Why can't you just answer the question? Why can't you provide a list of left things he has done? cui bono Feb 2014 #136

Okay... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #139

Oh lord.... cui bono Feb 2014 #145

and I am answering without anecdotal evidence... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #150

As was I. So nothing from you then that you know of that is left for Obama? cui bono Feb 2014 #161

No you are not using FACTS....you are using YOUR opinion...there IS a difference. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #166

How is Obama pushing for TPP my opinion? Keep reaching... cui bono Feb 2014 #167

TPP is not the ONLY issue is it? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #203

Why don't you ever answer my questions? cui bono Feb 2014 #345

I love that graphic, but CrispyQ Feb 2014 #376

That chart would absurdly suggest Rand Paul is closer to a moderate than Hillary is Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #125

No he isn't VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #128

Then why does the graph put Rand Paul closer to the center than it does Hillary? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #132

because perhaps he DOES have a moderate position or two... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #140

But having a moderate position or two does not make him a moderate Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #148

He is not a moderate....he is a Conservative leaning Libertarian... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #151

Well the graph does not show him as being very far to the right Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #156

Yes it does for a Libertarian...which he is... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #158

And the north and south positions make the graph even more meaningless Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #170

Okay....who do you think this Moderate is...? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #154

Why does it matter? I think this chart is totally meaningless no matter who it represents Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #159

NO it isn't....you just don't agree...you use anectdotal evidence... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #160

No. Quotes and speeches are not facts when it comes to representing a politician's stance. cui bono Feb 2014 #174

Its not JUST speeches...its VOTES! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #175

I KNOW! You do understand that when they use speeches in addition to votes it skews things, cui bono Feb 2014 #176

NO I don't that's politics...... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #181

If they think that you should consider a politician's empty promises when determining where they cui bono Feb 2014 #186

that is not ALL they are using...they are using actual VOTES.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #189

What are my measurements? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #178

I have no idea what yours are....go take the test...its available there... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #205

Holy crap looking at those questions makes the chart look even more stupid Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #213

Only stupid to someone that denies Political Science is real science.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #226

Where did I deny that political science was a real science? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #229

How else would you describe doing this (if not political "science")? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #231

I have obtained information from all of those things as well Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #238

Please provide a link to that then... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #239

Are you asking for a link to my opinion? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #241

You "opinion" is not what I am interested in... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #252

My god...look at how much work went into that NON-PROFIT site! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #240

If you actually read through their entire website quakerboy Feb 2014 #510

Well said. A post after my own heart. cui bono Feb 2014 #523

There is NO place for authoritarianism in this graph, that older graphs measured. cascadiance Feb 2014 #391

there are no Anarchists on that graph either....so your VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #399

And THAT is why your graph is meaningless, especially the top and bottom "measurement"... cascadiance Feb 2014 #402

A post after my own heart. cui bono Feb 2014 #522

You just said to me that one or two positions does not make the case. cui bono Feb 2014 #173

NO they don't but ALL of the evidence wieghed together does.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #191

It moves the needle the needle a tick or two...doesn't change the fact that he is a VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #192

Turn the graph 45 degrees clockwise whopis01 Feb 2014 #365

No I won't...THAT graph is Bill Clinton!!!! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #395

You have proof? Why haven't you shown it then? cui bono Feb 2014 #403

thats what I HAVE been doing with my graphs... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #404

Graphs that have no validity in what they attempt to show. cui bono Feb 2014 #410

what part of VOTING RECORDS do you NOT understand? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #412

That's not all they use. You are being purposely ingenuous or you are incredibly stupid. cui bono Feb 2014 #414

YES all they use....quotes hold up in a court of law as direct EVIDENCE! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #419

You've lost the plot. cui bono Feb 2014 #421

NO I havent....you are trying to prove some bullshit about quotes not being FACTS VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #422

Okay, so you don't understand this at all I see. cui bono Feb 2014 #427

I understand quite well...and Denial is NOT a river in Egypt. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #435

I was just explaining how to read the graph whopis01 Feb 2014 #434

I know how to read a graph quite well....thanks though.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #436

My post about how to read the graph was not a reply to your post - it was to someone else. whopis01 Feb 2014 #471

Oh...I am sorry...I thought you were cui bono...my mistake... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #472

Yeah, I don't think the graphs are meaningful in the least. cui bono Feb 2014 #401

Of course you don't .....Facts screw up YOUR narrative! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #406

That site doesn't present facts. cui bono Feb 2014 #408

YES It does... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #409

You left out speeches and quotes. And really, campaign websites? cui bono Feb 2014 #411

So what? THOSE are evidence too....would they NOT be used in a court of law? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #413

omg... seriously? Wow. You are so far gone it's mind boggling. Words are facts??? cui bono Feb 2014 #418

Yeah serious.....Yes YOUR words CAN be used against you in a court of LAW VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #420

The moon is made of cheese. FACT!!! I said it out loud too, so it counts. cui bono Feb 2014 #439

Your actual quotes ARE facts....they can be used against you... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #440

We aren't discussing criteria used to pick who to vote for, we are discussing the illegitimacy cui bono Feb 2014 #441

Thank you! n/t whopis01 Feb 2014 #416

What issue is she liberal about? reusrename Feb 2014 #124

visit the site...its all right there.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #141

Yeah, I saw all that when you posted it. reusrename Feb 2014 #145

then why are you asking me? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #149

I am asking because I don't see anything where she is left of the public. reusrename Feb 2014 #163

YOU might not....however THEY did and THEY listed it..... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #168

Fine. If you don't want to discuss it just say so. reusrename Feb 2014 #180

I have provided what I am basing my positions on..... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #187

Ok. reusrename Feb 2014 #194

That is not evidence of their track record since they include quotes which mean nothing cui bono Feb 2014 #165

bullshit! YOUR knee-jerk technique is false.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #193

If it is science it should be put up for peer review Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #206

Oh really? Where do you suggest "peer review"? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #208

They certainly don't call it peer review, they don't even call it science Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #218

You've never heard of Political Science? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #219

Yes I have heard of political science Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #220

Yes it does... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #221

Your copy and paste job does not make it science either Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #228

more than your knee jerk opinions... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #230

You keep posting their mission statement as if it means something Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #234

It DOES mean something.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #236

So what are the one or two issues I base my opinion on? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #243

I have no idea...that's 25 CATEGORIES of issues... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #248

And I often look at more than 25 issues when making a personal opinion on a candidate Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #257

its not just 25 issues...its 25 CATEGORIES of issues... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #259

Well I guess you could say I look at more than 25 categories of issues as well Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #260

You are "saying" but not proving....Big Difference... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #261

You are not proving either Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #263

Yeah I am...that's HOW you prove a thesis! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #265

If you tried presenting your arguments in this thread as a thesis you would get a big fat F Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #267

No I wouldn't.....YOU would. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #268

And I have used all those sorts of sources in forming my opinion Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #270

that is NOT a political "site" Sorry... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #284

Yes it is a political site, and yes so is Democratic Underground Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #288

You can't prove an opinion. And you are not using facts. cui bono Feb 2014 #282

I am not using OPINION .....I have data Apparently YOU don't know what hearsay is... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #426

This message was self-deleted by its author cui bono Feb 2014 #429

You have proved nothing VR. stillwaiting Feb 2014 #356

awwww did I hurt some fee fee's with my TRUTH! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #432

You could never hurt my feelings VR. stillwaiting Feb 2014 #446

Yes I do have the truth...thanks... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #461

One of the things I tomg Feb 2014 #352

Dr Lichtenberg is not the only one... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #437

Nice try...No cigar? tomg Feb 2014 #452

You still got NOTHING! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #458

You are hopeless. tomg Feb 2014 #468

whoopsie....not just speeches... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #212

OMG! At it again? Not sure why you can't state her policy positions. grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #325

they're ALL right there for you to see for yourself...why do I need to repeat any of them VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #433

LOL;) Is she for or against cutting social security? (ie Chained CPI) grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #470

This site is full of shit. blackspade Feb 2014 #307

Says YOU.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #428

Is there a reason why you're pimping this site? blackspade Feb 2014 #445

Oh yes there are...look at the page...above the graph...it shows the metrics right there... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #485

You never answered my question... blackspade Feb 2014 #487

A hard-core liberal supported by Goldman Sachs and Walmart? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #331

Can you PROVE it? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #424

Here is the story on Walmart's owner Alice Walton donating to Hillary. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #453

and this disproves my graph how? As I said...if YOU think you can run today WITHOUT VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #459

Your graph is the product of the subjective analysis of some academics. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #465

verifiable FACTS are NOT subjective... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #466

Opinions are not verifiable facts. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #480

It is NOT opinion....they are USING actual VOTES and Statements... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #481

Yes. I understand. But you are dealing with opinions. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #488

Here are the figures.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #482

Hillary is liberal on social issues. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #489

bullshit...she may not be as far left on economic issues as you would like....but its bullshit VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #491

i'm using the issue that I believe will be uppermost in people's minds in 2016. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #493

It doesn't work like that...ONE issue doesn't determine that....sorry VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #494

I think that the 2016 election may center around core economic issues. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #499

that doesn't answer the question though does it? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #500

What I am saying is that I think that voters who go to the polls in 2016 will go JDPriestly Feb 2014 #502

You don't KNOW that....this IS subjective.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #503

That is something we can agree on. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #504

NO its not based on opinions....its based on the answers the candidates have in each VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #505

But what I am trying to explain is that the questions themselves reveal a bias, JDPriestly Feb 2014 #509

Now WTF do you have on all ^^^^ those issues to dispute it... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #484

That chart is the very definition of 'emptiness'. Jeez... what a pretty picture! delrem Feb 2014 #233

Only to those that disagree with the findings.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #237

There is evidence, then there's "See Jane see! See the dot!" nt delrem Feb 2014 #286

YES it IS evidence....what the heck are YOU using for evidence? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #287

See the dot! See the dot move! nt delrem Feb 2014 #290

the dots aren't moving....you better get your eyes checked... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #291

How many of those people were you familiar with before you copied and pasted their names? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #292

Do you not consider them experts...they have been doing this since 2000.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #293

I don't believe there are experts when it comes to political analysis Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #296

Uh yes there are...Political Science ring any bells? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #297

As I said repeatedly I get my info from those same sources, I use objective fadts to form my opinion Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #298

BUT you are not compiling them and using algorithms to come to your conclusions... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #300

Politics is not math so no I don't use algorithms to form my opinion Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #305

tell that to Nate Silver... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #309

Nate Silver did not make these graphs, his methodology is very different Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #358

try to keep up...it wasnt about Nate Silver.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #398

Then why the hell did you bring up Nate Silver? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #455

because it was said you cannot use MATH to do politics... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #457

You obviously don't understand the difference between polling data and political ideology Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #462

Its not about polling....its about SCIENCE....and whether it is science.. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #463

Nobody except you calls that site science Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #464

Political Science...perhaps you have heard of it? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #495

Your argument reminds me of someone else's Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #496

When totally desperate.....find a way to compare them to George w. Bush! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #498

Words from speeches and press releases are not objective facts when it comes to determining where cui bono Feb 2014 #308

its NOT just speeches...its actual VOTING records! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #310

Why can't you understand that when you mix in non-facts like speeches and campaign websites cui bono Feb 2014 #313

No I won't.....I haven't convinced you because you refuse to accept the facts laid before you... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #317

They are not facts. You know that. Propaganda is used in their assessment. cui bono Feb 2014 #320

Rachel Maddow has her doctorate in political science. MoonchildCA Feb 2014 #380

See the dots on the picture! See see see! delrem Feb 2014 #295

Whatever...I guess you are still not ready to read the "hard stuff".. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #301

See see! See the dot! The dot is red! Red red red! nt delrem Feb 2014 #302

I am sure Nate Silver would agree there is nothing to be found in dots... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #311

Look Dick look! See the dots! delrem Feb 2014 #328

You ARE learning to read ....GOOD For you delrem VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #430

Yup. I learned early to distinguish parlor games from analysis. nt delrem Feb 2014 #447

parlor games? Prove it! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #460

Others have already proven it in these "VanillaRhapsody" threads. delrem Feb 2014 #469

NOT ONE has proven JACK! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #473

Not to you're mind, VanillaRhapsody. But that doesn't count. delrem Feb 2014 #474

Not to anyone's mind...."Nuh uh"....is not proof! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #475

"disagree with the "findings" bvar22 Feb 2014 #387

Clinton and Obama are rivals in the Left Liberal quadrant??? RufusTFirefly Feb 2014 #330

These charts are misleading nikto Feb 2014 #342

It all depends on how the issues are calculated and evalulated Revanchist Feb 2014 #350

Now there's the correct chart...can easily be verified by the facts AND through simple observation. NorthCarolina Feb 2014 #378

LOL...photoshop much? No thinking person would buy what those charts purportedly represent. NorthCarolina Feb 2014 #362

Give it up. No one believes you RC Feb 2014 #89

bullshit! See above... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #98

Meaningless graph is meaningless. cui bono Feb 2014 #294

Oh no it isn't....Your opinions are what are meaningless... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #312

Then why do you keep reading and responding to my posts? cui bono Feb 2014 #314

because you keep replying to mine...duh!! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #315

Cool. cui bono Feb 2014 #316

Yes I am... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #318

If she runs I don't think she will win. zeemike Feb 2014 #91

Oh yes she will..... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #100

Cool! Show us a link to Warren's words. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #96

Okay....I got one... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #102

Where does it say Warren encouraged Hillary? cui bono Feb 2014 #103

How is stepping out of the way....not encouraging? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #106

How is stepping out of the way encouraging someone? cui bono Feb 2014 #109

No but she did sign the letter from ALL the Dem Ladies.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #116

It could also mean that by her stepping out of the way fadedrose Feb 2014 #144

but she also signed the secret Letter from "the ladies" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #162

Seriously? MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #115

the secret letter mentioned above is another.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #118

Secret letter. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #122

No but those ladies are bonded.....it's been spoken of many times... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #195

Bonded. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #204

Yes they are....its been spoken of many times.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #207

The secret letter from the bonded ladies. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #209

they signed it and all agreed to "encourage" (that word you were looking for remember) VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #211

Encourage. Yes. MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #214

fine... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #216

But why is it secret? MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #217

the ladies? Yeah right.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #224

Link please? n/t cui bono Feb 2014 #104

Okay....here you go..., VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #110

Thanks. And yuck! cui bono Feb 2014 #114

Yeah well when she becomes President after Hillary I am sure you will see.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #197

and Hillary is NOT a corporatist...she is a Populist leaning Liberal! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #198

It's early. That can change. Probably will. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #329

How many times have you been PPR'd? morningfog Feb 2014 #492

I agree we dont't need another corporatist INdemo Feb 2014 #152

Good because she is not one....she is a Populist leaning Liberal... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #199

She has millionaires and billionaires waiting to back her if INdemo Feb 2014 #527

You don't have to agree with it...but NO one yet has had more credible evidence that she isn't VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #528

I agree to disagree and INdemo Feb 2014 #529

she IS a Liberal....this meme is ridic! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #530

It's time we talk about economic justice. That has been a taboo topic since Reagan. JDPriestly May 2014 #531

I saw it. Awknid Feb 2014 #4

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Feb 2014 #5

Clinton-Sachs may be progressive on social issues, but she is not the one to rhett o rick Feb 2014 #6

Oh really? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #202

Good luck trying to sell that completely bogus chart...LOL NorthCarolina Feb 2014 #425

K&R G_j Feb 2014 #7

Crystal Ball just gained huge respect from me! Hun Joro Feb 2014 #8

Her name used to bother me too Awknid Feb 2014 #11

Her dad did his dissertation on crystals, so maybe she is honoring him by keeping it. n/t dorkzilla Feb 2014 #82

Not maybe. He chose her name based on his work. n/t DFW Feb 2014 #442

Yes, that's what I said. The question posed was "why wouldn't she change her name". n/t dorkzilla Feb 2014 #444

Why should she? DFW Feb 2014 #449

Huh??? No one said she should change her name! dorkzilla Feb 2014 #467

You guys, it's KRYSTAL. JaneyVee Feb 2014 #108

It's worse than you realize--she spells it with a K! MADem Feb 2014 #87

I agree completely bowens43 Feb 2014 #9

They need someone not in the back pocket of Big Business. nt arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #10

what makes you think that? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #34

I think she and her husband or too tied into the Wall Street thieves. Also her arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #38

She hasn't worked there for many many years.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #43

I guess I'm like Chrystal, I was for her the first time but her position on arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #57

Well no one....NO one...has the gravitas to win.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #60

If it came down that she won the nomination for prez, there's no way I wouldn't support arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #64

and I do....and I knew before Barack Obama won the primary that Hillary was left of him VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #66

The alternative is a nightmare! arthritisR_US Feb 2014 #69

Which is why you go with your A-team.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #70

Walmart is among Hillary's current supporters. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #332

Here is her husband... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #201

Surprised me too - but she's right, HRC isn't the one for this moment. polichick Feb 2014 #12

Hillary: "Outsourcing will continue..." antigop Feb 2014 #13

I am totally convinced. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #26

"not against all outsourcing" VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #36

Then what good is she? MFrohike Feb 2014 #164

You don't like honesty in a candidate? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #172

I don't like uselessness MFrohike Feb 2014 #179

A President is ONLY a President...sorry....but they cannot make THAT VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #182

Oh brother MFrohike Feb 2014 #183

I understand you quite well.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #227

No, you really don't MFrohike Feb 2014 #242

you have 3 bullets....they have HUNDREDS! VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #250

Binders full of women! MFrohike Feb 2014 #272

Actually no...I have this... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #274

The sense to walk away MFrohike Feb 2014 #280

You should walk away....YOU have nothing to back yourself up... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #281

Their work is based on past results. Their work is not relevant to a time of as much JDPriestly Feb 2014 #335

The president is responsible for the negotiation of trade agreements. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #337

She said that? abelenkpe Feb 2014 #74

Didn't she also call herself dreamnightwind Feb 2014 #271

I doubt it.. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #276

"I can certainly run for the Senate seat in Punjab and win easily." antigop Feb 2014 #383

she co-founded the Senate India caucus with John Cornyn antigop Feb 2014 #384

Clinton's free-trade advocacy is hitting labor where it lives antigop Feb 2014 #385

Thank you for these posts - eom dreamnightwind Feb 2014 #443

Hillary touts "advantages" of outsourcing of US jobs to India antigop Feb 2014 #14

You deny that? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #39

And that is why I won't set foot in that hellish excuse for a business. blackspade Feb 2014 #321

Me either....but I guarantee you in one way or another you have benefitted. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #322

Please quantify that benefit. blackspade Feb 2014 #323

I'm sure the Clintons are both benefiting with their crazy priced 'speeches'... Whisp Feb 2014 #476

It is a matter of balancing the benefits against the losses. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #338

Hillary Clinton reaffirms support for more H-1B visas antigop Feb 2014 #15

we DO have a shortage of Dr's and Nurses...they use the H1B visas too... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #279

American Drs. and nurses are the best educated and most carefully vetted. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #339

Yes they are.....but we are still having a shortage that will continue VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #396

And many radiologists have been outsourced because X-Rays can be sent overseas in a minute or so... cascadiance Feb 2014 #389

THAT is malarkey.....we don't have enough Drs and Nurses...THAT is a fact VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #397

And overseas like India they SUBSIDIZE their education while our kids have more college debt! cascadiance Feb 2014 #417

I watched that. Skidmore Feb 2014 #16

Hillary played a leading part in drafting the TPP antigop Feb 2014 #17

Papantonio: Hillary Can’t Shed Corporate Stripes (video) antigop Feb 2014 #18

This is consistent with MSNBC's strategy The The Feb 2014 #19

Extreme left? Since when was Krystal Ball extreme left? Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #21

Whenever I hear "extreme left" it usually means someone who's to the left of Bill O'Reilly. Iggo Feb 2014 #24

but there are Left fringers too.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #42

I'm sure there are. Iggo Feb 2014 #62

what do you think the Left fringe is? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #68

What does The The define it as? Iggo Feb 2014 #71

I would consider the left fringe to be Stalinists and Maoists Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #86

Exactly. But the centrists/corporatists like to try to label the real left as extreme so they can cui bono Feb 2014 #177

and some people TRY to make those on the left appear as moderates... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #215

I'm not doing any such thing. Do you finally have an example cui bono Feb 2014 #223

there is a whole list for you to browse at VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #235

Why do I have to do your work for you? I need LEFT things Obama has done. cui bono Feb 2014 #266

Okay do you consider Teabaggers Fascists? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #249

I am talking about a real Stalinist, not a teabaggers uninformed ramblings of what a Stalinist is Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #255

Right and I am talking about Real Fascists.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #258

So you are saying that laundry_queen Feb 2014 #262

No that was NOT what I was saying.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #264

I don't think that Elizabeth Warren is all that to the left. I think she is quite middle-class JDPriestly Feb 2014 #341

Extreme left? Because we don't want Hillary? Enthusiast Feb 2014 #25

Preferring someone over Hillary vs. Wanting Hillary not to run at all The The Feb 2014 #30

Hillary's history tells us all we need to know. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #53

Huh? daleanime Feb 2014 #28

and those are the ONLY Liberals YOU can even think of based on a very narrow VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #45

YOU don't know what I'm thinking.... daleanime Feb 2014 #155

I DO know what kind of "stuff" goes around on DU about it....I take it you concur... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #157

Extreme left? They aren't allowed anywhere near corporate media. cui bono Feb 2014 #29

Exactly. The Rs put their fringe front and center and thier corporate office, FoxNoise, Dark n Stormy Knight Feb 2014 #393

Lol. Subtle! nt Union Scribe Feb 2014 #79

Aw, give him a break. He's new. Iggo Feb 2014 #200

Same as it was in 2008. Beacool Feb 2014 #253

MSNBC is owned by extreme right corporations. They fired olbermann & Cenk. grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #327

Ms. Ball usually always has something profound to add to the conversation... dawnie51 Feb 2014 #20

K&R! I hope this post gets hundreds of recommendations. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #23

2016 is the year of the women, and whoever is the nominee lostincalifornia Feb 2014 #31

the difference is Hillary can WIN.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #48

Joy Reid just made an excellent point on Ed's show. Skidmore Feb 2014 #52

and WHO else can win? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #56

2016 can wait a bit. Skidmore Feb 2014 #72

In 2006 who thought Obama would win? cui bono Feb 2014 #185

After a George W Bush? Pretty easy VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #275

Okay, pay attention before you respond. I said in 2006. That was before the primaries started. cui bono Feb 2014 #283

Your "little directions" mean nothing to me...believe me I PAY attention... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #285

No, you weren't paying attention as evidenced by your last post. cui bono Feb 2014 #289

I think you missed a key detail quakerboy Feb 2014 #512

In the past 30 years, no potential candidate has had to face the kind of attacks that Hillary JDPriestly Feb 2014 #343

Sort of like she did when she ran for the Senate? MADem Feb 2014 #85

I have no doubt that she has a strategy to follow. Skidmore Feb 2014 #92

I intentially did not remark on a specific candidate. There are a lot of demographics that go into lostincalifornia Feb 2014 #273

K&R Whisp Feb 2014 #33

I know...BENGAZI! right? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #49

Ben Gauzie is a Muslin! Whisp Feb 2014 #59

Simple fact is....Hillary Clinton can win...and most likely WILL win... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #65

The fact that the Pugs hate her so isn't enough for me. Whisp Feb 2014 #88

Signed in just to K&R this post. TalkingDog Feb 2014 #35

The unfortunately named pundit is dead on correct. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #40

She ended it by saying she would be 100% behind Clinton ecstatic Feb 2014 #41

NOPE they would rather risk another George Bush.... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #50

Except Hillary would BE another George Bush. Just another corporatist forced upon the voters. nt NorthCarolina Feb 2014 #415

2 SCOTUS picks not worth the risk lobodons Feb 2014 #44

^^^^THIS!!!^^^ VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #54

have you seen the parade of shitgoblins in the republican stable? frylock Feb 2014 #78

She's a loser. Marr Feb 2014 #93

When they say she is "electable," they mean that she has the money. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #344

Hear! Hear! Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #142

Ironic when MSNBC people affect a strong Union support. Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #46

Don't want her for president ebbie15644 Feb 2014 #47

ANY woman running would have to be willing to fight a war. ANY. aquart Feb 2014 #55

I liked this rant but if Clinton becomes the nominee justiceischeap Feb 2014 #51

Wait, so then you think she SHOULD run? The The Feb 2014 #58

No, I don't think she should run justiceischeap Feb 2014 #61

If the electorate is farther to the left, the Clintons will be too. TheMathieu Feb 2014 #63

So Krystal Ball and William Kristol are on the same page. Great. DURHAM D Feb 2014 #67

Kristol Ball The The Feb 2014 #73

People are waking up to the economic inequality, and Hillary will not do anything to liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #75

How do you know she won't do "anything" The The Feb 2014 #76

I saw it and I agree with Ms. Ball. earthside Feb 2014 #77

Thank you for your concern. aquart Feb 2014 #84

Like Ms. Ball, I like Warren. earthside Feb 2014 #90

Schweitzer? You might want to do some research. Evergreen Emerald Feb 2014 #232

Since you have expressed a strong opinion, who do you think would make a viable candidate? lostincalifornia Feb 2014 #277

I would love to see a woman as the Democratic nominee aint_no_life_nowhere Feb 2014 #80

I think it is H2O Man Feb 2014 #81

I agree. n/t. ms liberty Feb 2014 #131

Hater! nt antigop Feb 2014 #269

the right person is anyone who can beat the GOP in spite of massive GOP fraud and voter suppression stg81 Feb 2014 #83

Not if they continue GOP policy. We've had all we can take of that. n/t cui bono Feb 2014 #123

The only reason Hillary is the favorite of several people here rustydog Feb 2014 #94

Guess who won't be getting any interviews with the next President! Walk away Feb 2014 #95

Oh Oh, Crystal is now on The List... Whisp Feb 2014 #99

Oh! You mean the alleged "enemy list" that may or may not exist? The The Feb 2014 #107

My sentiments nt Sienna86 Feb 2014 #111

Not a comment on the feeling, but calling out this line: Lordquinton Feb 2014 #127

Good point! JDPriestly Feb 2014 #346

I will support that Democrat who I determine has the best chance of winning. DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2014 #153

Agree completely. n/t kiranon Feb 2014 #319

Crystal has a big "but" rock Feb 2014 #169

I like the other possible candidates but I question whether they can win. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #171

I like her too and believe she can win. Great minds run on the same track. Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #184

. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #188

Who gives a s*** what Krystal Ball says? OldRedneck Feb 2014 #190

I'm in the 1st district also gwheezie Feb 2014 #334

And now we know the rest of the story. Interesting. mfcorey1 Feb 2014 #351

I used to like her...but not anymore. Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #196

So who IS the right person? And it had better be someone who will win! Kablooie Feb 2014 #210

I agree with her. Ruby the Liberal Feb 2014 #222

And Another... WillyT Feb 2014 #225

MSNBC is getting REALLY difficult to watch..... George II Feb 2014 #244

I'm still in shock that anyone watches the cycle Champion Jack Feb 2014 #245

k/r 840high Feb 2014 #246

Hillary may run or not, but I'm sure that Warren meant it when she said that she was not running. Beacool Feb 2014 #247

Now now, Sweetie, it was just her opinion fadedrose Feb 2014 #251

I don't take this place seriously because it doesn't reflect the real world. Beacool Feb 2014 #254

The person I vote for may not win, but at least I know I will be voting for the change I want. liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #299

Or Toure's George II Feb 2014 #372

Just because she sat on the Walmart Board does not mean she is treestar Feb 2014 #278

Why not a Union President? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #347

Name one that is likely to ever run for POTUS treestar Feb 2014 #359

At this time, there aren't any, but I would not rule out the possibility of one JDPriestly Feb 2014 #390

I didn't click on the link. Does the person provide any credible alternatives? Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #303

ahh. I just clicked. Elizabeth Warren. A non-credible candidate. Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #304

Why do you consider Warren to be a "non-credible" candidate? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #348

Hillary disqualified herself when she voted for Bush's war, prevaricated over torture and supported sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #306

She's wrong on wars, costly trade, taxation, SS, & privatization. grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #324

HRC 2016 Campaign Slogan: "You Don't Need No Stinkin' Choices" blkmusclmachine Feb 2014 #326

No, because I had to disconnect the cable. The money to pay for it is with some rentier. jtuck004 Feb 2014 #333

Crystal's got it right... nikto Feb 2014 #340

Well, I'll have to BlueMTexpat Feb 2014 #349

Agree Completely - Hillary Is Wrong For America cantbeserious Feb 2014 #353

we must come to an agreement.... tomp Feb 2014 #354

Have you ever watched a cat trying to cover up shit on a linoleum floor? bvar22 Feb 2014 #405

That's one of the funniest posts in recent memory dreamnightwind Feb 2014 #450

K&R'ed 2 Thumbs up! BrainDrain Feb 2014 #355

After reading this thread (yes, I read all of it), I have come to one conclusion: Buns_of_Fire Feb 2014 #357

I agree. MynameisBlarney Feb 2014 #360

Those items in your avatar are disgusting and propaganda to the max!! mfcorey1 Feb 2014 #364

The what now? MynameisBlarney Feb 2014 #366

When you click on the graphic for your post, a list comes up with some of the most vile lies about mfcorey1 Feb 2014 #367

It leads to the poster's journal. HappyMe Feb 2014 #368

Not blaming him, but pointing out the items listed are disgusting. mfcorey1 Feb 2014 #370

Yes, they are. HappyMe Feb 2014 #371

Ooooooh! Thanks! I had no idea. MynameisBlarney Feb 2014 #373

Krystal Ball is entitled to her opinion. HappyMe Feb 2014 #361

Heard it. Loved it. 12AngryBorneoWildmen Feb 2014 #363

I love how people become political experts after losing very winnable districts. nt TheMathieu Feb 2014 #369

I didn't make the connection until now because her name didn't mean anything to me. Beacool Feb 2014 #374

you actually went there? ROFLMAO!!! Whisp Feb 2014 #477

Go scratch the dog, I think it has an itch. Beacool Feb 2014 #478

Now will Ball live up to her name? alp227 Feb 2014 #375

I totally agree with her Estevan Feb 2014 #377

If her parents really named her that... Loaded Liberal Dem Feb 2014 #379

Yes, her parents really named her that DFW Feb 2014 #448

heehe! I thought I was the only one that felt like Cyrstal!! Stellar Feb 2014 #381

K&R broiles Feb 2014 #382

wow! 170 recs. 170 "haters". sarcasm. nt antigop Feb 2014 #388

This message was self-deleted by its author bvar22 Feb 2014 #392

I supported Kucinich. Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2014 #394

the site explains their methodology...you are welcome to go there and read it yourself. VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #400

I agree vrp Feb 2014 #407

Don't have time to read the comments, but this is powerful. Wow. Shifted my begruding support libdem4life Feb 2014 #438

And we laugh at the tea party for destroying their best chances. aquart Feb 2014 #479

Perhaps her credentials are roughly akin to those of quakerboy Feb 2014 #514

Elizabeth Warren is a political novice. Plain fact. aquart Feb 2014 #518

You say novice quakerboy Feb 2014 #525

How does "begrudging support" "trash" Hillary? I'm Left Liberal and I don't condescendingly sneer libdem4life Feb 2014 #516

"Can she withstand" quakerboy Feb 2014 #513

In case anyone is interested, Krystal did not make the decision do this segment lightly DFW Feb 2014 #451

good for her G_j Feb 2014 #483

She has more depth than some would ascribe to her DFW Feb 2014 #508

I admire her guts. HappyMe Feb 2014 #511

I took the liberty of passing your comment on to her DFW Feb 2014 #524

well, what she said was well thought out G_j Feb 2014 #520

Glad to share them DFW Feb 2014 #521

Count me in the "Amen Corner". Maybe she just broke through the Inevitable Ceiling, just a bit.n/t libdem4life Feb 2014 #517

so before 2008 i watched the iowa caucuses questionseverything Feb 2014 #486

Bookmarking this thread for the 2016 primaries neverforget Feb 2014 #497

. solarhydrocan Feb 2014 #506

I mean really "Crystal Ball"... Ellipsis Feb 2014 #507

My thoughts Faux pas Feb 2014 #519

"Thin slice of educated elite," what a bullshit phrase. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2014 #526