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pampango

(24,692 posts)

20. As is typical, Perot was a republican politician who used existing trends to fear-monger.

Thu Feb 13, 2014, 09:59 AM

Feb 2014

That hardly makes him a genius or even 'right'. It certainly does make him a republican. (They do that all the time now. Fear-mongering has become a republican specialty.)

Manufacturing jobs had been declining in the US (and in every other developed country) since the mid-1950's. Predicting that an existing 40-year trend would continue does not make one a genius. Blaming that trend and its continuation on a policy that happened 40 years later is more fear-mongering than science.

Ross also predicted that American wages would decline after NAFTA. (Again he saw a 20-year trend of declining wages and probably thought "I'll look like a genius if I predict that wages will decline after NAFTA".) Unfortunately for him, not for American workers, he was wrong.

(See the graphs in post 7 above.)

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Bill Clinton and Republicans promised NAFTA would create jobs.. [View all] livingwagenow Feb 2014 OP

I tend to agree with a couple of exceptions Armstead Feb 2014 #1

Many jobs created in Clinton years Cicada Feb 2014 #2

ultimately he delivered them to China Armstead Feb 2014 #4

What would you have recommended as a China policy at the time? An embargo? pampango Feb 2014 #14

Protectionism. Armstead Feb 2014 #17

So a modified "US only" embargo? Should we put tariffs on Cuba when the embargo is removed? pampango Feb 2014 #19

"high tariffs serve as a barrier to trade" brentspeak Feb 2014 #48

a pat on the back? reddread Feb 2014 #38

According to the bureau of Labor Statistics, Clinton holds the record for jobs created Agnosticsherbet Feb 2014 #5

Clinton was incredibly lucky Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #6

The dot.com boom which as could be expected inevitably went bust. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #11

Every President will face a handful of fortuitous or disastrous events Agnosticsherbet Feb 2014 #31

Record jobs were created. Wages rose. -- He was just lucky. Democratic presidents just can't win. ;) pampango Feb 2014 #15

+1 JoePhilly Feb 2014 #51

Really? Alkene Feb 2014 #57

Barack Obama and the Republicans are promising the same thing with TPP. pa28 Feb 2014 #3

It did create jobs, and raise wages Recursion Feb 2014 #7

How much of the manufacturing consists of simply assembling parts JDPriestly Feb 2014 #10

It's a simple question, "did employment and wages go up or down after NAFTA"? Recursion Feb 2014 #21

Realy? JDPriestly Feb 2014 #33

OFFS Recursion Feb 2014 #41

You and your silliy facts. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #52

At the cost of wages. joshcryer Feb 2014 #12

Then why did wages go *up* after NAFTA was passed? Recursion Feb 2014 #22

Because most entry level manufacturing jobs were outsourced, leaving older, more skilled workers Romulox Feb 2014 #29

Yup. And the entry-level people found higher paying jobs outside of manufacturing Recursion Feb 2014 #42

At much reduced rates of pay. You seem to forget that the past leads us to this point. Romulox Feb 2014 #71

So Bush and Republicans are at fault and not Democrat? treestar Feb 2014 #67

Those charts don't speak to the 1,000,000 manufacturing jobs lost since NAFTA, MFN China. Romulox Feb 2014 #28

What are you talking about? Recursion Feb 2014 #43

You aren't an honest debater. Manufacturing employment is down by almost 1,000,000. Romulox Feb 2014 #72

"Today the US manufactures more than at any point in our history" LOL L0oniX Feb 2014 #50

How about "Global warming is real. Tell that to the people of Detroit today." pampango Feb 2014 #54

I wouldn't use the phraze "Global warming". It's global climate change. L0oniX Feb 2014 #55

It did not create jobs markme88 Feb 2014 #63

I didn't say "it created manufacturing jobs" Recursion Feb 2014 #65

Ok Let's look at the two charts markme88 Feb 2014 #66

Your chart shows a huge decline in manufacturing jobs over the period Recursion Feb 2014 #68

No markme88 Feb 2014 #69

Ah, so you're posting right wing propaganda on DU Oilwellian Feb 2014 #73

That never passed the smell test and they dropped that claim like a hot potato, switching their meme Populist_Prole Feb 2014 #8

K&R. I agree 100%. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #9

The real power of NAFTA: it lowered wages for 20 years before it was enacted. And manufacturing jobs pampango Feb 2014 #13

Inflation adjusted household income in 1995 -- $50,978 JDPriestly Feb 2014 #34

Great link. Shows that AHI increased more in the 7 years after NAFTA than in the 20 years before it. pampango Feb 2014 #36

But the economy was too weakened by the boom that it went bust. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #37

Why do you think there is a time limit on the benefits? The "bust" was due to pampango Feb 2014 #39

There's nothing magical about manufacturing. Recursion Feb 2014 #44

Congrats on Dumb Post of the Day brentspeak Feb 2014 #46

Poorly paid manufacturing workers in right-to-work states are not going to support our economy pampango Feb 2014 #56

Of course, large-scale manufacturing isn't coming back to the US brentspeak Feb 2014 #59

And only fools believed them. nt LWolf Feb 2014 #16

It seems Ross Perot had it right about that "giant sucking sound". idendoit Feb 2014 #18

As is typical, Perot was a republican politician who used existing trends to fear-monger. pampango Feb 2014 #20

LOL. So--he was right (no way of arguing against *that*!).... Romulox Feb 2014 #24

He could read a chart. And he knew how to scare people. Typical republican. pampango Feb 2014 #26

He was correct, and Al Gore/Bill Clinton/CATO institute/Heritage/Pampango were wrong. Romulox Feb 2014 #27

You saying he was correct does not make him correct. pampango Feb 2014 #35

Nearly a million jobs lost, pampango. Reality...remember? Romulox Feb 2014 #30

Details, details n/t brentspeak Feb 2014 #47

Why institute policies that made the problem worse? Armstead Feb 2014 #32

Don't forget Al Gore's shameful roll in pushing this crap. Romulox Feb 2014 #23

Did they mention WHERE? WinkyDink Feb 2014 #25

K&R! This post should have hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Feb 2014 #40

Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit Detroit L0oniX Feb 2014 #45

Thank you. Enthusiast Feb 2014 #49

Hey now! NAFTA created jobs. Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #53

Record numbers of American jobs were created under Clinton and he is scorned for NAFTA. pampango Feb 2014 #58

Well, then, if you like NAFTA Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #60

In terms of annual percentage increase, the best job-creation presidencies were: El_Johns Feb 2014 #62

. Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #61

Looks to me like the problem was the tax incentives, not NAFTA. jazzimov Feb 2014 #64

I love a post that blames "Bill Clinton and Republicans"... gulliver Feb 2014 #70