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Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)

14. I hate to tell you this...

Reply to Pretzel_Warrior (Original post)

Mon Feb 17, 2014, 05:21 AM

Feb 2014

but the promotion of gender equality and challenging ingrained societal attitudes toward things like gender roles and sexual objectification? That's just as much of a "progressive" cause as challenging homophobia and racism. Or it should be, anyway. These issues aren't just about media representations; they're bound up with a lot of other things that are all part of the same underlying cultural ideas. Pervasive sexual objectification is reflected in things like street harassment of women, in acquaintance rape, in the retrograde idea that the only value women have is as sexual objects and as wives and mothers (which is just an extension of sexuality).

The tension isn't between fellow progressives, it's between progressives and reactionaries. "We" are not all on the same side on many issues.

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This Gender War bullshit at DU must stop [View all] Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 OP

Hide thread kcr Feb 2014 #1

No. Stop the gender wars here on DU. RC Feb 2014 #153

RIght. Those "certain few people' are the only ones who ever post flame bait. kcr Feb 2014 #156

This group is by far the highest profile group in any conflicts here. RC Feb 2014 #168

yes... when talking about womens issues we speak out. and when being called out by fellow duers... seabeyond Feb 2014 #170

Or the one most likely to get blamed for conflict kcr Feb 2014 #171

The difference is This is a political site. Conflicts are not going away, because DU is a very RC Feb 2014 #183

Oh, so now it's everyone behaves and only discusses politics kcr Feb 2014 #188

This seems to be fitting... RC Feb 2014 #198

Thank you for providing an example. There's no gender wars kcr Feb 2014 #205

Denial for the win! RC Feb 2014 #208

lmFao. omg. you talk about others, but ANYOE not agree with you, and insult, accusation is seabeyond Feb 2014 #215

The bigger that list gets, the better kcr Feb 2014 #243

I tell you woman, half the people on this board is on this list seabeyond Feb 2014 #249

An accurate example was given, regardless of your misuse of the word "denial" LanternWaste Feb 2014 #298

It's simply not realistic, or effective, to blame a whole group. Voice for Peace Feb 2014 #266

so a couple of our "flamebaits", one had over 250 rec, another had over 100 rec. how would that seabeyond Feb 2014 #163

Links please. RC Feb 2014 #174

you haev not spent a lot of your time saying hof needs to be shut down? a lot in meta. or calling seabeyond Feb 2014 #178

Amen! libodem Feb 2014 #234

Add another 'amen' to that .... sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #306

Well last week it started on Monday with this: seaglass Feb 2014 #236

ah, i forgot about that first one, specifically calling us damaged. but, since that is a fav of RCs seabeyond Feb 2014 #240

No, it didn't start there, as even seabeyond acknowledges. opiate69 Feb 2014 #245

well it seems that seabeyond is saying the OP brought up emotionally damaged in another post seaglass Feb 2014 #259

right on. but hey... if opiate wants to start of the beginning of her accusing us as damaged, seabeyond Feb 2014 #263

you would still start at bellas post that called us damaged, wihich then led to an Op calling us seabeyond Feb 2014 #260

The real remedy is to make an effort to understand other people. Voice for Peace Feb 2014 #254

That is true. What has to be done is find the people flagging it on and deal with them. RC Feb 2014 #273

pitchforks and torches... where? lets get 'em. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #275

It is only a few. You are correct. Most people don't want to get engaged as it is pointless, just sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #307

123... ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #195

Trash thread is an option you can exercise. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #2

Sorry can't happen. Kurska Feb 2014 #3

Until the 2006 primaries start for real... TreasonousBastard Feb 2014 #4

The 2006 primaries are over and done with. :) nt justiceischeap Feb 2014 #23

That's a quitter's attitude. Orrex Feb 2014 #63

So true! pipi_k Feb 2014 #122

Out of the question, there is too much educating to be done quinnox Feb 2014 #5

Yes Kurska Feb 2014 #6

For sure. Anyone who disagrees simply has not seen the light quinnox Feb 2014 #10

Is it possible that some people enjoy goading women with posts like the SI swimsuit photos? pnwmom Feb 2014 #16

Yes, one clearly said as much. BainsBane Feb 2014 #18

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #64

I didn't post the SI thread. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #294

It was a woman who posted it. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #295

Tell it to the guys who started it all BainsBane Feb 2014 #17

+1 gollygee Feb 2014 #19

Calling out misogyny is starting a "Gender War" ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #21

It only becomes a race/gender/class war when the other side starts fighting back. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #25

+1 redqueen Feb 2014 #38

Absolutely gollygee Feb 2014 #62

Is it possible that others will only accept total conformity? joeglow3 Feb 2014 #71

Or you could Google "evolutionary psychology feminism" sufrommich Feb 2014 #74

yes, a faux outrage suggesting its about evolution, as you and others were repeatedly told otherwise seabeyond Feb 2014 #76

+1000. closeupready Feb 2014 #150

I missed that thread ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #111

No. They told me to quit finding pictures of women sexually appealing joeglow3 Feb 2014 #115

Would you be offended if ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #169

Thank you for saying this so succinctly. redqueen Feb 2014 #247

Indeed it is possible BainsBane Feb 2014 #134

Good post. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #272

Stopping the gender wars isn't difficult. Stop posting misogynist crap and people will stop calling seabeyond Feb 2014 #34

+1 MadrasT Feb 2014 #42

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #66

We have a winner MattBaggins Feb 2014 #114

One big problem pipi_k Feb 2014 #192

Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #20

Thanks! BainsBane Feb 2014 #202

Bullshit. The SI cover thread was started by a woman. pintobean Feb 2014 #22

I'm the woman that started it, ALL BY MYSELF. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #31

Funny because someone claimed differently BainsBane Feb 2014 #131

And, is that particular someone the same someone who actually posted that thread? opiate69 Feb 2014 #148

Summer? BainsBane Feb 2014 #158

Yeah.. gotta love autofill... opiate69 Feb 2014 #162

Run with that all you want. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #160

Perhaps you should correct your posts and apologize. pintobean Feb 2014 #165

Indeed you did "start it" Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #196

Several years ago, that wouldn't pintobean Feb 2014 #204

I guess we'll have to Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #216

I respect your opinion. pintobean Feb 2014 #219

Back at ya.... Bobbie Jo Feb 2014 #237

Thank you for realizing it was all me. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #222

But you didn't post it as a "news story". You posted the pictures and said, WOW. R B Garr Feb 2014 #267

Oh well. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #302

I'm just saying that your true intentions for posting it don't really add up R B Garr Feb 2014 #305

+1. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #33

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #65

"It says everything that you think ending gender wars hinges on getting feminists to shut up." redqueen Feb 2014 #95

Good post. nt ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #268

Out, damn facts! Is the observation that a woman posted the SI cover relevant? n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #296

I'm a feminist and am not at 'war' with anyone. Maybe that's why people, including most of DU's sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #308

Oh baloney treestar Feb 2014 #89

The MRAers are an obnoxious bunch MattBaggins Feb 2014 #112

Did you seriously just resort to "I know you are, but what am I?" Orrex Feb 2014 #283

+ 1,,000 nt lillypaddle Feb 2014 #223

but love is a battlefield hfojvt Feb 2014 #7

Good luck with that. LiberalAndProud Feb 2014 #8

Best of luck with that. bluedigger Feb 2014 #9

iat's ok, women only look at SI for the articles lol nt msongs Feb 2014 #11

I sense an escalation of hostilities Lasher Feb 2014 #12

you made me laugh lasher... seabeyond Feb 2014 #36

Then today my existence is justified. Lasher Feb 2014 #41

lol. it truly is lasher. thank you. enjoy your justified existence today. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #47

Lasher, I think a little eyeliner wouldn't hurt. Just saying. Squinch Feb 2014 #79

Mascara is pretty goth and I love a man with Paint It Black Toenails. just saying Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #109

Time to leave the playground ... mrsadm Feb 2014 #13

I hate to tell you this... Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #14

Thank you. I would offer my own definition of female sex object Warpy Feb 2014 #15

Disclaimer: Great post, couldn't agree more. NuclearDem Feb 2014 #27

+1. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #37

post #15, thread winner n/t Scout Feb 2014 #179

Agreed ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #26

+1 redqueen Feb 2014 #45

You win the thread Scootaloo Feb 2014 #52

Well said,as usual. nt sufrommich Feb 2014 #53

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #68

That sounds great, until you push it toward Muslim treatment joeglow3 Feb 2014 #72

Oh Jesus not this shit again. MadrasT Feb 2014 #77

then how is he going to hold up his man card for all to see....... lol. the thing, seabeyond Feb 2014 #80

Spin facts much? THIS is the bull shit we are dealing with. joeglow3 Feb 2014 #118

meh... i know you were in some thread, about some bullshit about not able to define rape. seabeyond Feb 2014 #125

Stop pretending like you are interested in an intellectually honest conversation joeglow3 Feb 2014 #175

seems to me you are asking definition of rape, consent. but... there you go. you expressed, and seabeyond Feb 2014 #181

No. I was asking someone to clarify THEIR position joeglow3 Feb 2014 #182

kinda like saying, my words are.... you support rape. i re read, nope didnt say you support seabeyond Feb 2014 #184

Who are you to talk about intellectual honesty gollygee Feb 2014 #210

Yeah. Have you not been on DU for the last 3-4 days? joeglow3 Feb 2014 #212

I saw some garbage saying women have to deal with sexism because apes gollygee Feb 2014 #214

And that is the intellectual dishonesty right there joeglow3 Feb 2014 #224

first. is that the study if men look at boobs 10 minutes a day they are healthier? that was fox news seabeyond Feb 2014 #228

Evolutionary psychology is not science gollygee Feb 2014 #229

Westboro, is that you?? joeglow3 Feb 2014 #248

Ok, logic here gollygee Feb 2014 #279

ohhh, i thought he was accusing you of hate, them being hate group. bah hahahha. still the evo psych seabeyond Feb 2014 #281

Well they both have the word "evolution" in them gollygee Feb 2014 #282

Not what I was saying joeglow3 Feb 2014 #291

Still has nothing to do with what I think or believe gollygee Feb 2014 #297

You lied to me yesterday to make some idiotic point, so much for honesty. seaglass Feb 2014 #241

You realize the f word doesn't offend me. joeglow3 Feb 2014 #252

No point was proven except that you don't have a problem lying to prove a point. And yeah, I've got seaglass Feb 2014 #253

So, those people coming out of the closet should STFU joeglow3 Feb 2014 #117

Sorry, I don't play the strawman game. n/t MadrasT Feb 2014 #141

Nice defense mechanism joeglow3 Feb 2014 #177

. MadrasT Feb 2014 #197

Exactly my point. joeglow3 Feb 2014 #201

I hope you don't go to the beach when other women are there wearing bikinis. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #238

yes, if those bikinis were brought into the work force to entertain the men. right on. you are seabeyond Feb 2014 #265

Huh. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #269

of course it fuckin was. are you series!!11!!1!!!!!! lol, lordy dude. duh. seabeyond Feb 2014 #274

If I find a woman's body sexually appealing, I am a sexist, need to be shamed and need to be kicked seabeyond Feb 2014 #78

Redqueen said all these things this weekend joeglow3 Feb 2014 #119

i do not think she said that. you are saying she told you, you cannot find a woman sexually seabeyond Feb 2014 #128

No. She ignored my comments and just called me names joeglow3 Feb 2014 #176

no? so, she did not do what you accused her of doing. merely called you names? seabeyond Feb 2014 #186

Here is one thread joeglow3 Feb 2014 #200

you want me to go thru that huge ass (see the funny) thread to come up with seabeyond Feb 2014 #213

And you "knowing" what is there without looking is the closeminded discussions I avoid joeglow3 Feb 2014 #226

you give me a thread of what 600 posts to read thru to find what you deem as whatever? and that seabeyond Feb 2014 #230

control-f is your friend joeglow3 Feb 2014 #246

What will this friend do for me? I will try again later. Busy now. Nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #250

control-f "redqueen" joeglow3 Feb 2014 #251

Fuck that. You made the assertion - you back it up. redqueen Feb 2014 #255

Awwww. A double encore joeglow3 Feb 2014 #258

lmao. you want me to call up all redq post and see if i can find anything offensive toward you.... seabeyond Feb 2014 #271

Start at post 482 for one example. joeglow3 Feb 2014 #276

that is huckle thread and stops at 38. will find the other link seabeyond Feb 2014 #277

see, here is the thing. i didnt read the bullshit about your rape discussion cause i am so fuckin seabeyond Feb 2014 #278

^^^^^^ Squinch Feb 2014 #81

Thank you. myrna minx Feb 2014 #121

Excellent post! And Warpy's response is also excellent. R B Garr Feb 2014 #289

If all we do is use "the other side's" misogyny and bigotry without dealing with our own NuclearDem Feb 2014 #24

you are da man..... i really want a high five smilie. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #39

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #101

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #123

Yes! gollygee Feb 2014 #207

Excuse me your mistaking Gender and opinions . orpupilofnature57 Feb 2014 #28

Put the seat down, already! badtoworse Feb 2014 #29

Do you think this "gender War Divisiveness" ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #30

+1. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #40

Thank you very much for calling attention to that particular tactic. nt redqueen Feb 2014 #48

.... sufrommich Feb 2014 #50

1SmartMan is speaking truth to the power right here. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #103

Not "Truth to Power" ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #126

! Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #133

Good Post. nt. NCTraveler Feb 2014 #136

! gollygee Feb 2014 #211

Mmm pretzel bread... CFLDem Feb 2014 #32

The 60s are long over; progressives are only now learning to hate. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #35

Why,oh why won't those feminists just shut up already? sufrommich Feb 2014 #43

buzzkill...? i dunno sufro, seabeyond Feb 2014 #46

I read ismnotwasm's wonderful OP in HoF this morning sufrommich Feb 2014 #49

ya. always told. and when pointed out the immediate reply... oh, you can talk. well, thanks. lol seabeyond Feb 2014 #58

meh... i dunno. i am like the nicest, and so easy to get along with pretzel. i simply do not know seabeyond Feb 2014 #44

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #54

I'm ready for a lengthy debate on how we address the first male spouse of a female President. nt TheMathieu Feb 2014 #51

Short of banning about 10-12 accounts Soundman Feb 2014 #55

i do not think it is a good idea to ban the mens group, and kick all the men off du. i do not think seabeyond Feb 2014 #59

"Uppity women ruined my refuge" sufrommich Feb 2014 #60

Who said that besides you? Soundman Feb 2014 #227

This is such a load of crap gollygee Feb 2014 #70

basically, this is what the Op is about. and this is what we are repeatedly hearing. not as blunt. seabeyond Feb 2014 #82

"i and others need to be kicked off cause we are too bad, and hof needs to be shut down" Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #85

"Do each of you get your own crucifix or do you have to share one" an example of pretend. seabeyond Feb 2014 #91

I'll take that as you each getting your own cross Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #92

so, you continue the insult instead of actually addressing my post. reasoned post. reasoned seabeyond Feb 2014 #94

He reads your article, my brain hurts my eyes cross Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #98

more insults. seabeyond Feb 2014 #102

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #100

the point of this little exercise, is to give a blatant example what women are continually dealing seabeyond Feb 2014 #104

that is such a bullshit hide. what can even be the reasoning for that hide. do tell. seabeyond Feb 2014 #110

Jury result: Denzil_DC Feb 2014 #113

thank you, clears it up. i have had hides in dishonesty from alerters, and no, i do not think it seabeyond Feb 2014 #116

"i do not think it was in good faith" Denzil_DC Feb 2014 #124

thank you. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #130

Horrible verdict. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #127

Horrible Alert. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #144

Agreed! hrmjustin Feb 2014 #152

They can't revise it kcr Feb 2014 #209

Yeah, I know that. Denzil_DC Feb 2014 #232

I know, it's mainly just me venting about the jury sytem kcr Feb 2014 #242

There are a lot of posts in pintobean Feb 2014 #105

Which has what do do with accusing someone of sufrommich Feb 2014 #106

what the fuck does that have to do with what i said to soundman? another cross insult? seabeyond Feb 2014 #107

And the idea that ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #139

this is such a fuckin awesome thread in every way showing us clearly what the issue is. and how seabeyond Feb 2014 #146

I have no idea what you're talking about Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #56

And on du a man says.... NCTraveler Feb 2014 #57

sheeeeit. we were suppose to run in a corner and shut up? sheeeeit. my bad. lol seabeyond Feb 2014 #61

You have a wonderful day also seabeyond. NCTraveler Feb 2014 #86

recognizing that list could go on forever. thank you. excellent. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #93

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #129

Please stop saying things that make me uncomfortable. el_bryanto Feb 2014 #67

agree. barbtries Feb 2014 #69

Yeah! Instead, go make Pretzel_Warrior a sandwich. aikoaiko Feb 2014 #73

Boys vs Girls is the overall stupidest thing about this site. Iggo Feb 2014 #75

you laughed at my joke. you are a boy. i put that joke up. i am a girl. point. seabeyond Feb 2014 #87

That's 'cause it was funny. And it's funny because it's true. Iggo Feb 2014 #173

well, i do not see it as boys vs girls... seabeyond Feb 2014 #194

Like any religion, it's the smallest differences that cause the biggest rifts. brooklynite Feb 2014 #83

But but but ... I MUST reserve the right to be offended Myrina Feb 2014 #84

It is good to remember that suffragists didn't succeed because they shut up and sat down. CTyankee Feb 2014 #97

You ASSUME I am "leveling a message" against women. Myrina Feb 2014 #132

then by all means point out what I got wrong... CTyankee Feb 2014 #135

sounds like mockery we hear often toward women. but, i am open. you? nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #137

Sure, if I got the poster's point wrong, I want to know about it. I want to hear CTyankee Feb 2014 #140

sure. cause we are just that kind of woman, ..... ya know? correct me if i am wrong. seabeyond Feb 2014 #149

I'm old enough to "take it." CTyankee Feb 2014 #231

lol. waiting waiting waiting. lol. i say that to the kids all the time when waiting, so seabeyond Feb 2014 #233

It's an issue of our times treestar Feb 2014 #88

gives some people a reason to complain beachbum bob Feb 2014 #90

I make good use of the trash can. HappyMe Feb 2014 #96

It won't end until one side or the other wins AngryAmish Feb 2014 #99

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #147

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #154

We're in for a long haul. Squinch Feb 2014 #284

As you/we should be ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #285

Yes, Squinch Feb 2014 #301

Okay ... That made me chuckle. eom. 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #309

What do you want members to do here? hrmjustin Feb 2014 #108

Wow! Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #157

This will go to at least 300 replies. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #159

This is a familiar rhetorical tactic, like that used by the GOP of shouting "class warfare" zazen Feb 2014 #120

Excellent analogy. redqueen Feb 2014 #262

Isn't it bullshit to call this gender war? Coyotl Feb 2014 #138

The day I see a smart gender war thread here... Springslips Feb 2014 #142

then you might ought to read this thread. there is a lot of intelligent, thoughtful, seabeyond Feb 2014 #151

I would argue ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #155

thank you strong. and thank you for providing this poster the opportunity to hear what you say seabeyond Feb 2014 #166

Good post Springslips Feb 2014 #187

Love this. Thanks. nt. NCTraveler Feb 2014 #264

Ha! Now you know. The gender warriors really do belong on Cleita Feb 2014 #167

you jump in and insult people. but we are the issue? how does that work? nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #172

I never said they belong on the playground Springslips Feb 2014 #189

Never apologize for expressing a valid opinion. Cleita Feb 2014 #225

yup, just put head down and keep on insulting. no need to apologize. cute. k. outta here, and YOU seabeyond Feb 2014 #235

But then again ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #270

Why do you feel entitled to dictate what DU was or wasn't set up for? (n/t) WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #143

heh, I see what you did there. eom Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #145

The Gender War bullshit in America must stop. JTFrog Feb 2014 #161

Thread trash and ignore are your friends. Cleita Feb 2014 #164

I'll be honest about this.....I have to agree. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #180

Outside Agitators FreakinDJ Feb 2014 #185

uh... a man stated we are all apes and men are going to behave as such and all of us have to deal seabeyond Feb 2014 #190

Who is bonobo FreakinDJ Feb 2014 #199

a long time duer. the host of the mens group. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #217

Agreed Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #191

Oh Hell No! Fumesucker Feb 2014 #193

And what would become of the popcorn industry? Initech Feb 2014 #203

and you just started a fresh new round! dionysus Feb 2014 #206

Thank goodness this post came along to put a stop to all that gender war stuff el_bryanto Feb 2014 #218

Ellen Jamesians, Guy Fawkesians, Marxists... gulliver Feb 2014 #220

You don't have to see any of it. NCTraveler Feb 2014 #221

Heh, GBCDU! WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #256

this is very akin to straight people on du declaring that gays are asking for ponies La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2014 #239

and, we have seen all that before. some from the same people. bettyellen Feb 2014 #261

. libodem Feb 2014 #244

God forbid that political issues should be discussed on a political forum! Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2014 #257

The nudity/objectification war was fought and lost long ago LittleBlue Feb 2014 #280

Then go to those websites that post the photos you describe. It's that simple. R B Garr Feb 2014 #287

The swimsuit issue fits fine in GD LittleBlue Feb 2014 #290

Your first post started out talking about the war on nudity being "lost" R B Garr Feb 2014 #299

Those are not contradictory points LittleBlue Feb 2014 #300

lol, your first post basically says if you don't want to see nasty internet photos R B Garr Feb 2014 #303

That isn't true LittleBlue Feb 2014 #304

You keep hiding behind the SI swimsuit as if that's really the issue R B Garr Feb 2014 #310

I did a google search for mgtow Harmony Blue Feb 2014 #286

i gave up for now.... madrchsod Feb 2014 #288

Yay! Flame bait for a flame war! When's your next vacay? morningfog Feb 2014 #292

What other civil rights and social issues do you suggest we refrain from discussing? LanternWaste Feb 2014 #293

Locking. Even you knew this was 'meta' by your comments in the OP. Purveyor Feb 2014 #311