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BainsBane

(57,750 posts)

156. There are some basic things one assumes anyone knows

Mon Feb 17, 2014, 03:38 PM

Feb 2014

Models are there to work. They aren't their to display their personal sense of style. They wear what they are told, stand how they are told, and use facial expressions that evoke what the client wants them to. Their choice begins and ends at accepting the job. After that, the decisions are entirely the client's, in this case, SI.

Turn on the TV and watch any episode of America's Next Top Model and you'll see how much say a model has in her wardrobe on set. Read a memoir of some model, any model.

I'm not interested in discussing the issue of the SI cover, or any other issue, with you. You clearly are not interested or able to understand what I think, and I don't have the patience for conversation with someone whose primary interest is nurturing a personal grudge against me. Nothing I have ever written about this or any related issue suggests women or anyone else should wear anything other than what they want.

When you make ridiculous comments like the one above, you only highlight how little you understand about not only feminist critiques but basic circumstances of photoshoots. I'm starting to understand why you so seldom discuss any issue of substance.

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Should women wear make-up? [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 OP

Haven't bothered with it since 'retired,' elleng Feb 2014 #1

I totally understand. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #4

Yes, the distinction makes a real difference; elleng Feb 2014 #6

"we don't interfere, tho we make our points of view known." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #31

Thanks. Good thoughts, elleng Feb 2014 #35

Strength, love and honor -- always. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #38

Me and baby Eddie today, elleng Feb 2014 #182

OMG! That face! Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #256

No makeup and no more hair dye and retirement is great Warpy Feb 2014 #58

Skin & hair absorb chemicals:THAT should be our major concern! Divernan Feb 2014 #109

Good to know, elleng Feb 2014 #136

I wear makeup, and I don't at all resemble the photo you've posted, SheilaT Feb 2014 #2

A woman who wears make-up is NOT a traitor to her gender Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #20

I want to make it clear that SheilaT Feb 2014 #28

If it helps Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #32

And when most of us turn 50, we become invisible Warpy Feb 2014 #76

can you please expound on man's "congenital stupidily". surely, you don't believe we'll all be agog dionysus Feb 2014 #231

While admittedly speaking in wide generalizations Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #248

thank you for elaborating on that... makes sense. if i see the SI cover, a magazine i don't buy, dionysus Feb 2014 #275

This is pretty much my situation. I don't think of makeup as adding color eridani Feb 2014 #80

I too have a very fair complexion that tends to redness. I use a very light foundation to smooth CTyankee Feb 2014 #114

I wear makeup too Carigal Feb 2014 #178

This is stupid! dem in texas Feb 2014 #3

^^^This! mimi85 Feb 2014 #276

Women should wear whatever the fuck they want. LeftyMom Feb 2014 #5

^^That Orrex Feb 2014 #100

Katherine Harris thinks so. lpbk2713 Feb 2014 #7

Anybody should wear anything they want to at any time. edbermac Feb 2014 #8

women can wear whatever they want to wear (or not wear) JI7 Feb 2014 #9

I seldom wear makeup. 3catwoman3 Feb 2014 #10

no, makeup is often cultural such as those who go for the goth look JI7 Feb 2014 #11

I'm pro-choice. JaneyVee Feb 2014 #12

Well-played. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #21

No, she isn't kcr Feb 2014 #13

I used to wear mascara and lipstick applegrove Feb 2014 #14

If they want to. bravenak Feb 2014 #15

It depends on what I'm doing. Mz Pip Feb 2014 #16

I've never worn much makeup, Blue_In_AK Feb 2014 #17

I think men should wear makeup ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #18

"I think men should wear makeup" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #23

Yeah mines got a beard. Hates to shave ismnotwasm Feb 2014 #34

No "guyliner?" Lost_Count Feb 2014 #91

Not with that butt-ugly haircut and the half-ass beard, no jmowreader Feb 2014 #189

It's every woman's choice NV Whino Feb 2014 #19

I'm sick and tired of this nonsense. Boudica the Lyoness Feb 2014 #22

"These days women can... Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #25

You can never fully separate personal and social influence. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #24

"There is always some consideration given to public perspective." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #27

Who's "they?" Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #29

Whomever the "public" might be. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #33

Are the quotes meant to be a passive aggressive slight or something? Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #56

I believe you when you said NM_Birder Feb 2014 #215

"Love to know what your opinion is on why Hillary or Michelle might wear make-up." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #218

"lover boy's" opinion is self indulgent to the point of your thread. NM_Birder Feb 2014 #226

Fair 'nuff. In another post, responding to an accusation of passive-agressiveness, I wrote -- Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #246

That was pretty much was what I expected. NM_Birder Feb 2014 #251

I have answered repeatedly throughout the thread Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #254

look-ith over there NM_Birder Feb 2014 #288

I wear makeup. Lugnut Feb 2014 #26

People who think everyone else should do exactly what they want them to are control freaks Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #30

You and I have tangled in the past. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #36

Heh... We have? Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #37

this is the bullshit. you put up this ridiculous OP, warren jumps in as reason, as if ANYONE seabeyond Feb 2014 #106

The word "objectification" is being toss around quite a lot lately. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #116

your posts of recent have been chalk full of mock, snark and insult. yes, you write cleverly. seabeyond Feb 2014 #119

What do you mean "passive aggressive insults"? I was very literal in everything I just wrote. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #126

Hell, sometimes I clash with myself. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #286

Wait, what'd I do now? Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #287

And then there's the other extreme kcr Feb 2014 #39

Sure, which is why sane people support individual freedom that doesn't interfere w/other individuals Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #40

To you, it's authoritarians being driven buggy kcr Feb 2014 #49

I'm not saying it's not a valid discussion. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #61

Of course it wouldn't. kcr Feb 2014 #63

How's this: If someone tells you you should- or shouldn't- wear makeup, my suggestion is Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #64

Yeah. Sorry to be such a downer kcr Feb 2014 #66

Aye, I admit to having pet peeves, too. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #67

That's because you're purposefully framing the discussion incorrectly. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #69

Okay, if you say so. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #70

That's the irony of much of the libertarian movement. In it's need to reduce risk... Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #71

A yes libertarian yes harumph harumph robble robble libertarian robble. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #72

I want women to be aware of the historical significance of makeup... Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #73

Oh. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #74

My truly informed decision is I'll wear makeup when I feel like it... Violet_Crumble Feb 2014 #86

Well maybe they can put the question differently treestar Feb 2014 #124

To be perfectly honest, I think some of this stuff may break on geographic lines. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #165

This is true kcr Feb 2014 #200

You live in northern Maine? MADem Feb 2014 #204

Distractions FormerOstrich Feb 2014 #41

I have always worn foundation, since I was a teen�it has protected my face from the sun's�. Tikki Feb 2014 #42

The way you describe it sounds almost like "airbrushing" Major Nikon Feb 2014 #43

Who needs butter? I've got plenty! Initech Feb 2014 #44

It's not for me to tell people how to present themselves. But as a matter of personal taste, struggle4progress Feb 2014 #45

Nope. Iggo Feb 2014 #46

Not sure what you mean... cyberswede Feb 2014 #120

Sure, women "could" wear make-up .... IF they choose to Lil Missy Feb 2014 #47

The SI kerfuffle is merely the latest in the GOP's WAR ON WOMEN, blkmusclmachine Feb 2014 #48

If they want to, sure. It shouldn't be something expected of them though. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #50

Self-beautification is an art snot Feb 2014 #51

Will y'all write a news release or something when it's decided? lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #52

My daughter wears make up. I don't. I defend both her right to wear it and my right not to. liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #53

to me it's not a matter of whether women should wear makeup fizzgig Feb 2014 #54

"Traitor to her gender"? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #55

someone had a poutrage over your post hobbit709 Feb 2014 #90

You're the fourth person to tell me so Scootaloo Feb 2014 #94

The problem is that the poutragers never see themselves as part of the problem. hobbit709 Feb 2014 #96

So, is that a "yes" on being a gender traitor? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #101

Your logic is more tortured than the plot of a Shyamalan film Scootaloo Feb 2014 #104

Let's see if we can sort this out. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #117

thank you. exactly. totally offensive in the passive aggressive slap across the face. nt seabeyond Feb 2014 #107

You take exception to the term "gender traitor" and then accuse me of everything Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #129

I used to pretend I didn't understand my passive-aggressive comments as such too.. LanternWaste Feb 2014 #151

Pretense is a wonderful way to hide behind that which we're too cowardly to say openly. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #223

I'm thinking that the term "passive-agressive" is fast becoming as meaningless as Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #229

I've said that all along about the owner of this website. Sheldon Cooper Feb 2014 #128

I have been saying it too, since the inception of DU3. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #237

Beautifully put! Squinch Feb 2014 #132

ding ding. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #224

what other people want to do is not my business. hollysmom Feb 2014 #57

I think people wear make-up for any number of reasons. and I agree with your post. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #238

i think a lot of people look great with make-up orleans Feb 2014 #59

EYE MAKE UP OR ART trueblue2007 Feb 2014 #60

That was pretty cool Marrah_G Feb 2014 #102

art... madrchsod Feb 2014 #202

It worked for David Bowie. Depends what kinda look she wants to pull off. nt alp227 Feb 2014 #62

A woman can do whatever she wants newfie11 Feb 2014 #65

Woman should wear makeup if they CHOOSE to. If they CHOOSE to, then it is nobodies else's business. patricia92243 Feb 2014 #68

as long as it's not mandatory, I don't give a rats butt eShirl Feb 2014 #75

Her choice Half-Century Man Feb 2014 #77

doesn't eliot spitzer wear eyeliner ? JI7 Feb 2014 #78

Can you pan down to the socks? PassingFair Feb 2014 #222

Joanna Russ on makeup eridani Feb 2014 #79

Especially for some groups of women, make-up is compulsory if you want to be taken seriously KitSileya Feb 2014 #159

^ great post, thank you, eridani ^ Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #239

That is a personal choice.. sendero Feb 2014 #81

Nope, but I love photoshop greymattermom Feb 2014 #82

If they want to. PeteSelman Feb 2014 #83

From a male's perspective davidpdx Feb 2014 #84

You THINK you dislike make-up. And "fat"is not the same topic at all. WinkyDink Feb 2014 #89

So davidpdx Feb 2014 #92

A woman should not feel pressure either way liberal N proud Feb 2014 #85

That is indeed the point. idendoit Feb 2014 #268

Personal choice. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #87

Women have been wearing make-up since before Cleopatra VII. People get hair-cuts. They shave. It's WinkyDink Feb 2014 #88

If they WANT TO!.. It's their choice, and theirs alone! N/T Ghost in the Machine Feb 2014 #93

I wear make up. HappyMe Feb 2014 #95

Personal choice MadrasT Feb 2014 #97

What we need here is some good door to door work and some tracts: The Straight Story Feb 2014 #98

None of your business blueamy66 Feb 2014 #99

Actually... shedevil69taz Feb 2014 #203

Can't do it. blueamy66 Feb 2014 #241

I used to be that way too... shedevil69taz Feb 2014 #282

My hair is not too thick... blueamy66 Feb 2014 #284

none of my business and ya nuclear, i know you have been mystified of late. if you actually seabeyond Feb 2014 #103

if they want, only caveat should be please know how to and what works loli phabay Feb 2014 #105

Should a woman flamebait? Squinch Feb 2014 #108

^^^ thread win ^^^ MadrasT Feb 2014 #110

I would imagine that would be her choice. HappyMe Feb 2014 #113

The term "flamebait" is also losing its meaning. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #130

It's becoming impossible to have a somewhat intelligent conversation. reusrename Feb 2014 #191

I think women should do as they please about makeup. MineralMan Feb 2014 #111

I think I have a solution to this issue... brooklynite Feb 2014 #112

I think I have a solution to your solution... TeeYiYi Feb 2014 #141

It should be an individual choice, but... cyberswede Feb 2014 #115

Women should do whatever the hell they want to do. Chorophyll Feb 2014 #118

It should be up to the individual, but treestar Feb 2014 #121

That is up to the individual. hrmjustin Feb 2014 #122

Complicated subject.... Adrahil Feb 2014 #123

A flamewar about makeup? rug Feb 2014 #125

I don't wear make up unless I'm attending a meeting, conference malaise Feb 2014 #127

Seriously, I haven't worn makeup since my hot flashes kicked in catbyte Feb 2014 #131

I do. And I won't apologize to anyone... WorseBeforeBetter Feb 2014 #133

...and there it is. HappyMe Feb 2014 #166

There's a balance between society's needs and our own. noamnety Feb 2014 #134

Should I have an opinion about what others choose to wear? Let me think and Coyotl Feb 2014 #135

I'm pro-choice tallahasseedem Feb 2014 #137

I don't wear make-up. 840high Feb 2014 #138

They should do whatever they want to do bigwillq Feb 2014 #139

PEOPLE should wear whatever the hell they want BainsBane Feb 2014 #140

Including swimwear. pintobean Feb 2014 #144

LOL BainsBane Feb 2014 #146

Are you saying they're forced pintobean Feb 2014 #150

There are some basic things one assumes anyone knows BainsBane Feb 2014 #156

It always comes down to insults. pintobean Feb 2014 #163

Clearly you don't need to discuss anything with me anyway BainsBane Feb 2014 #168

Gaga is kind of like a model right? All image? snooper2 Feb 2014 #221

Are you arguing someone forced them to take the picture??? really?? nt Logical Feb 2014 #160

I'm arguing they are models, which no one should have to argue since it is basic fact. BainsBane Feb 2014 #169

When did I complain about the gender wars? links please. n-t Logical Feb 2014 #170

This answers all your questions BainsBane Feb 2014 #174

I have a lot of link I woud like to send you also. n-t Logical Feb 2014 #176

You stayed out of these threads? muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #214

Not to mention the "prepubescent boys" thread pintobean Feb 2014 #227

that second thread was about apes BainsBane Feb 2014 #244

You said the 2nd thread was about male privilege, and mentioned SI in it yourself muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #247

Now you point to an entirely different post BainsBane Feb 2014 #250

I talked about threads, as you did, until now muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #252

I meant post. Obviously I didn't reread the whole thread. BainsBane Feb 2014 #257

If your posting habits aren't our concern, then don't tell us "I stayed out of those threads" muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #259

How to get a bikini body eridani Feb 2014 #207

The criticism in that case gollygee Feb 2014 #212

I take it you have never seen G. Gordon Liddy's whistler162 Feb 2014 #194

No, but I suspect you may have a valid point there. BainsBane Feb 2014 #195

+1 YoungDemCA Feb 2014 #205

I'll leave that up to the women in question. n/t Comrade Grumpy Feb 2014 #142

I don't wear makeup in order to appeal to men, and even if I did, Heidi Feb 2014 #143

if she wants to, sure. Scout Feb 2014 #145

Yes, but only on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and 3-day weekends. DisgustipatedinCA Feb 2014 #147

I don't pretend to know. However, I also don't pretend to know... LanternWaste Feb 2014 #148

my opinion has no relevance it should be up to them dembotoz Feb 2014 #149

if they want to Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #152

It's their choice itsrobert Feb 2014 #153

You can have my make up case Butterbean Feb 2014 #154

Yes, they should and so should men. There was a time men Cleita Feb 2014 #155

I have great naturally white hair, but.... northoftheborder Feb 2014 #157

as long as they have their husband's permission and it has been thoroughly tested on animals nt arely staircase Feb 2014 #158

i wish men wore makeup. nt La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2014 #161

Some do!! retread Feb 2014 #162

I wore it in high school. Codeine Feb 2014 #216

If women want to wear makeup, they should. If they don't, they shouldn't. Seems pretty simple nt. Ex Lurker Feb 2014 #164

Men and women should be forced to shave their heads NM_Birder Feb 2014 #167

+1 tallahasseedem Feb 2014 #172

We must write to or await instructions HappyMe Feb 2014 #173

Also if a woman can gain monetary advantage by using Cleita Feb 2014 #177

an actress or model ? NM_Birder Feb 2014 #213

I wouldn't even go out to walk my dog without makeup. RebelOne Feb 2014 #171

Good luck with your surgery, RebelOne! Sissyk Feb 2014 #187

Thanks, Sissyk. n/t RebelOne Feb 2014 #192

I'm with you! (Only I say "To get my newspaper"!) WinkyDink Feb 2014 #209

Personally I think most women look better without it mythology Feb 2014 #175

Young women look good without it. The rest of us need help Cleita Feb 2014 #179

I generally don't care The empressof all Feb 2014 #180

Only if they want to. Chan790 Feb 2014 #181

This is a woman's choice, if she feels good with the makeup then go for it. Thinkingabout Feb 2014 #183

Sure, if they want to. frogmarch Feb 2014 #184

What horrible advice. rrneck Feb 2014 #196

Skipped all the other responses. Mine? A woman should wear make-up only if she wants to. WillowTree Feb 2014 #185

Personally, I think men should. CrispyQ Feb 2014 #186

As I hope any feminist would agree, this should be up to individual women themselves. anti partisan Feb 2014 #188

Free will. LWolf Feb 2014 #190

I don't and never have. texanwitch Feb 2014 #193

I've always worn some makeup. llmart Feb 2014 #197

I just want to hug you. Cleita Feb 2014 #198

Awww...you're sweet. llmart Feb 2014 #217

If they want to, they should be able to LadyHawkAZ Feb 2014 #199

what business is it of yours? TorchTheWitch Feb 2014 #201

"Not only do you want to tell other women -- " Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #260

Sure, why not? AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #206

Only if it doesn't clash with their burkas. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #208

If they want to. n/t gollygee Feb 2014 #210

Well: TheMathieu Feb 2014 #211

SMH/NT DemocratSinceBirth Feb 2014 #219

No, women should be told what to wear by men. Rex Feb 2014 #220

Women should be able to wear whatever they want without geek tragedy Feb 2014 #225

Many replies like this, but I'll address this one. Adrahil Feb 2014 #228

you're mixed up on a couple of points: geek tragedy Feb 2014 #230

I disagree.... Adrahil Feb 2014 #232

So you're saying that Scottish men who wear kilts geek tragedy Feb 2014 #233

Now don't get silly.... Adrahil Feb 2014 #235

this conversation started off clearly ridiculous geek tragedy Feb 2014 #236

I also think PasadenaTrudy Feb 2014 #242

Yes.... Adrahil Feb 2014 #243

True true PasadenaTrudy Feb 2014 #245

I have never worn make-up, not even once. My Mother likewise, etc. for millions of years. Coyotl Feb 2014 #234

it's an individual choice. Beacool Feb 2014 #240

"Should" is not applicable - it's not a decision with moral consequences. Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2014 #249

"It doesn't benefit or harm anyone else, so it's entirely a personal decision." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #261

Is it immoral to wear a suit? Donald Ian Rankin Feb 2014 #262

"I could also suggest that Joe Biden is an baby-eating space crab from Mars." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #263

Sure JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #253

If they want to KamaAina Feb 2014 #255

DU "Gender Wars" have officially jumped the shark with this thread UncleMuscles Feb 2014 #258

Sure� why not, if you want to wear it? MrMickeysMom Feb 2014 #264

I wear very little. a la izquierda Feb 2014 #265

make-up wearing female here & I don't give a damn what anyone else does Duppers Feb 2014 #266

I think women who want to wear makeup should ohheckyeah Feb 2014 #267

If They Want To Wolf Frankula Feb 2014 #269

Some of it provides for uba and uva protection. Also some may have an obvious mark or scar they lonestarnot Feb 2014 #270

I have seen the sun protection argument elsewhere in this thread Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #271

Maybe more do than care to admit. lonestarnot Feb 2014 #272

I'm afraid I'll have to register myself a skeptic of that assertion absent any foundation for it. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #273

tee hee. lonestarnot Feb 2014 #274

It can only help if it's done right. CFLDem Feb 2014 #277

"You are wearing makeup?" HockeyMom Feb 2014 #278

The question has no answer. Because no two women wear makeup for the same reasons. Glassunion Feb 2014 #279

Only if they want to. ileus Feb 2014 #280

Only if they want to. Autumn Feb 2014 #281

Gave up make up in 1979, no one has complained since demigoddess Feb 2014 #283

Up to you jmowreader Feb 2014 #285

First Post on DU Token Republican Feb 2014 #289

Too much information. Curmudgeoness Feb 2014 #290