What can you guys tell me about Humanists? I've never dealt with one before. [View all]

[MrScorpio]

Last edited Wed Feb 19, 2014, 07:50 AM - Edit history (6)

I ran into one in Raw Story, and maybe I'm wrong, but this guy sounds like an anti-religious bigot. Mind you that I'm not religious myself. But whenever I feel as if I'm being subjected to religious intolerance of ANY kind, whether it be in the name of for or against the belief in any faith, I don't like that shit at all.

Every American has the right to believe, or not to believe, as they see fit, and no one has the right to tell anyone otherwise.

These are the kinds of things that start religious wars in other countries. Check this out and tell me if I'm wrong or not.

Article: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/02/17/how-to-tell-a-mexican-from-a-muslim-a-guide-for-the-panicky-american/?utm_source=disqus-dashboard

Me:

Here in Southeast Michigan, we've made peace with Muslims eons ago. The Potato Farmers have nothing to fear.

Him:

"The most potent antidote to religion is education. I am sure many of those people who you call Muslim are not Muslim at all but just people who came from a Muslim ancestry. Keep up the good work and in a generation the mosque will close due to lack of interest."

Me:

I have to ask. Do you actually know anything about Southeast Michigan, or was that your standard take on anything said about Islam or Muslims in America?
And why do we need to close Mosques? Do we need to close Temples and Churches too? What's wrong with anyone following whatever religious belief they want to have?
Heck, I may be personally non-religious, but I stand by anyone else worshipping as they see fit in this country. That's called religious freedom, my friend.

Him:

"Whoa, calm down fella. My point is not anti-religion but that religion can't compete with education and TV. All religions have to indoctrinate their children. Still even a child that is indoctrinated but is exposed to counter ideas, such as science, history, TV or life without a religion, may not stay in the religion.
That is my point. In the home countries, where the Muslim religion is mandatory and all counter ideas are eliminated, children grow up to be Muslim. In Michigan, even Muslim children are exposed to science, history, TV and the idea life can be lived without religion.
My point is the Muslim religion is no different than other religions. They are losing members. The fasting growing group in America is atheist. No child has to be indoctrinated to be an atheist since that is what all children start with."

Me:

No, that's not right. Not all Muslim countries have universal Muslim indoctrination. I take it that you're not aware that there are Christians Arabs and Persians, Jewish Iranians, so forth and so on in this world. Here in Michigan, many of the Arabs are from predominantly Muslim countries, like Iraq, are actually Christians. Go to Lebanon, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Turkey, Algeria and Morocco and you'll see something quite different from what you're asserting.
Dude, I'm a retired AF Vet as you appear to be a retired Navy vet. I'm sure that you must have served with other people from different faiths and nationalities and gleaned from them a much better knowledge of the world. Or perhaps you were deployed overseas. But you don't seem to indicating that at all.
Where are you getting this stuff from?

Him:

"We are talking past each other. You are correct that many Muslim societies are tolerant of other beliefs, even if the tolerance is only grudgingly allowed and slowly disappearing. I am correct that many countries like Iran, Saudi Arabia, Northern Sudan, state governments in Indonesia and Malaysia, actively persecute anyone who is not a Muslim or is the wrong type of Muslim.
I am sure many of the outstanding people in Michigan fled their native countries because they were not the right type of Muslim or were not a dedicated enough Muslim.
I am a proud member of the American Humanist Association. ( http://americanhumanist.org/ ) Everyday there are stories about atheists in Muslim countries who are brutally treated, even killed, or imprisoned because they committed the crime of not believing.
Sharia law is rapidly spreading in many parts of the world. In those areas, the worst crime is to question Islam or even worse, not believe in a god.
The reason why sharia law is imposed is because the enforcers know modern life in general and education in particular would destroy their religion if people had freedom.
That is my point, modern life and education is the antidote for religion. Even people who fled sharia law, but are still strong believers, will find their children questioning the faith once they learn there is an alternative, such as atheism.
You try to deny facts and tell me I am somehow wrong for pointing out the obvious. There is a reason atheism is the fastest growing group in America and even in Michigan's Muslim communities.
Oh yea, I spent time in 35 countries and was stationed overseas for nine years in my Navy service. I know a thing or two about other cultures."

Me:

OK, let me tell you what I'm finding objectionable in your posts. To me, you seem to be unfairly focused on Islam, to the exclusion of the problems of intolerance imposed from any other religion. It's not as if it's only the Muslims who are causing problems out there, Right? And your point about Sharia indicated to me that you might be concerned that Sharia Law could be imposed here in the US… Which, in my observation is a completely irrational fear, coming exclusively from the Right Wing.
Instead of Sharia law coming to America, I'm way more concerned about the Dominionists who are hellbent on turning this country into a so-called "Christian Nation," bound by some warp interpretation of the Book of Leviticus.
Sure, as Humanist, must have some concern about that, and I right?

Him

Your leaps of logic are truly galactic. I point out people are fleeing sharia law overseas but you claim I am worried about American government imposing sharia law here in the United States.
You fancy yourself a liberal but what you did was out-Limbaugh - Limbaugh. Limbaugh did the same thing to Sandra Fluke. She testified about the need for health care and Limbaugh claimed she wanted government to pay her for having sex.
I agree the Muslim religion isn't the only religion that has intolerant believers. There is an old saying in America, "Jesus protect me from your followers."
The difference is our Constitution protects us from religion. If it wasn't for the Constitution, we would have a Christian version of sharia law in many parts of our country. The same hate and ignorance found in fundamentalist Muslim areas is also found in fundamentalist Christian areas here, fundamentalist Hindu areas in India and even in African tribal religions.
If it wasn't for the rule of law, Americans would see the same religious based killing that Iraqis woke up to when Dubya liberated them from peace and tolerance.
Even though you invented things I never said or implied, I still point out that freedom to get an education is incompatible with religion, be it Michigan or Tehran.

Me

OK, Bro., I took some time to reassess this conversation we're having and I've come to the conclusion that I've misjudged you.

I apologize for that. I guess that miscommunication is something that's inherent in this this process.

Frankly, I think that you and I have more in common that we have apart. Your point about us talking past each other was correct.

Can we call a truce?

Him

Agreed, we are both knowledgeable on why intolerance is destructive to society in general and to the victims in particular. I enjoyed your replies. Please keep up the good work.

All done!