General Discussion

Tommy_Carcetti

(44,519 posts)

11. This is pure bullshit.

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:41 AM

Feb 2014

Anyone who wants to boil the events in Ukraine as either some sort of proxy war between the EU and Russia, or claim that it's nothing more than a bunch of neo-Nazi rabble rousers, are extremely naïve to what's actually going on.

What's actually going on is the boiling over of a lot of anger from the Ukrainian people about the ongoing corruption and suppression of human rights from the Ukrainian government. And when Yanukovych cut the deal with the Russians, it was viewed as a last straw by many. Not necessarily because the Ukrainians were so emotionally invested in the EU, but because of the centuries long mistrust that Ukrainians have had with Russian due to the subjugation of Ukraine by Russian in a variety of forms, from the Russian Empire to the Soviet Union.

This article presents a much better picture of what the unrest in Ukraine is all about than some of your dubious claims:

http://www.businessinsider.com/understanding-euromaidan-2014-1

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What the Mainstream Media isn't telling you about the situation in Kiev. [View all] MattSh Feb 2014 OP

Thanks for the info. octoberlib Feb 2014 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author kag Feb 2014 #13

According to Victoria Nuland, US State Dept MattSh Feb 2014 #21

The oil sheiks are behind the fascist turn to the right across the globe. loudsue Feb 2014 #36

Welcome to the new "Cold War" newthinking Feb 2014 #59

Smells like the BFEE... greytdemocrat Feb 2014 #2

Once McCain got involved I knew something was wrong uponit7771 Feb 2014 #3

"Smirk. Sneer" - Johnny McC (RepugliCrank) Berlum Feb 2014 #4

McCaincer standing next to NeoNazi leader Oleh Tyahnybok kenny blankenship Feb 2014 #32

When I saw that as a news source 2naSalit Feb 2014 #53

Yep, that's always been a dead give away for me as well. n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #37

k&r Puzzledtraveller Feb 2014 #5

Paul Craig Roberts, co creator of Reanomics and Alex Jones Show guest.... Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #6

had exactly the that impact on me. cali Feb 2014 #14

Agreed. For one, there's an analysis of what joining the EU does to the country, but not a okaawhatever Feb 2014 #43

Paul Craig Roberts writes for Rense and Are_grits_groceries Feb 2014 #7

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Feb 2014 #8

Exactly! Sssh! this is a Democratic site! kenny blankenship Feb 2014 #33

Don't polls show that a plurality of Ukrainians prefer a closer association with the EU rather than pampango Feb 2014 #9

It's about 50/50 MattSh Feb 2014 #15

"A poll conducted October 2-15, 2013 by GfK Ukraine showed three times as many Ukrainians favoring pampango Feb 2014 #24

How about you present the numbers without the spin? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #65

The "3-to-1 slam-dunk" I presented clearly compared those favoring an EU agreement (44%) to those pampango Feb 2014 #66

You're deflecting. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #69

That's your interpretation. I posted the actual poll results which shows that less than 50% support pampango Feb 2014 #72

Same deflection, second time. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #75

Deflection is apparently a two-way street. You're not contradicting anything I posted. pampango Feb 2014 #80

Yes, but at this point it is against the anti-protest law. joshcryer Feb 2014 #56

Paul Craig Roberts is a batshit crazy bigot. geek tragedy Feb 2014 #10

But, clocks! And I rec'd it for the part prior to the Father of Reaganomics there... n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #38

This is pure bullshit. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #11

Quite frankly, if you want to argue against someone who is arguing that a protest is fascist Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #12

With Yanukovych, anything legitimate is suspect. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #16

Of course, they're not exactly MY claims. MattSh Feb 2014 #17

You have to understand I have family members who have been involved in the protests. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #22

Thailand, Venezuela and Ukraine protestors ALL cite "corruption" to overthrow recently elected Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #27

Corruption in the Ukrainian government is very well-documented. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #28

Exactly my point. It is also well documented in Thailand and Venezuela and in Egypt, but the Fred Sanders Feb 2014 #29

Um, it didn't become violent until they passed the anti-protest law. joshcryer Feb 2014 #55

It's documented in the US government too. Tell me a government that doesn't have well documented El_Johns Feb 2014 #47

So? This is true of most governments. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #76

At its head? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #77

Do you read English? JackRiddler Feb 2014 #81

And you clearly are ever so versed in charm and interpersonal skills. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #82

I wrote what I wrote... JackRiddler Feb 2014 #83

You are quite possibly the most insufferable (jerk) I have met in all my years at DU. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #84

Shoot. I can't get it to load. Don't know what's wrong. Is it for subscribers only? n/t freshwest Feb 2014 #40

Should work. Try again. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #68

I smelled a rat when the EU terms came out. Demeter Feb 2014 #18

Thank you for some much needed information and for the other posts on this thread.. mountain grammy Feb 2014 #19

I'm with you, mountain grammy. This situation is incomprehensible. JDPriestly Feb 2014 #26

Thanks for this post. redqueen Feb 2014 #20

+1 JVS Feb 2014 #34

I think that is a very wise way to begin assessing things these days. nt stillwaiting Feb 2014 #45

+1. The only protesters who aren't 1) ignored or 2) framed as lawless malcontents are the ones the El_Johns Feb 2014 #48

Maybe they aren't actually lawless malcontents. nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #67

I've already read about this BS PatrynXX Feb 2014 #23

tell this BS to the Baltic peoples. quadrature Feb 2014 #25

And then there is this... Adrahil Feb 2014 #30

Valuable perspective pscot Feb 2014 #31

informative thread. I have another viewpoint to share because I know nothing about this situation. libdem4life Feb 2014 #35

No -- sometimes things get worse. Witness Iraq; witness the mafia state of Kosovo; etc. El_Johns Feb 2014 #50

Indeed. In fact most of the time. I was trying not to be hyperbolic. libdem4life Feb 2014 #73

"Manifest Destiny has been re-directed to the entire globe." factsarenotfair Feb 2014 #51

Thanks for sharing your perspective. MadrasT Feb 2014 #39

Interesting. Thanks. (no text) Quantess Feb 2014 #41

There is a lot of mis information out there... Xolodno Feb 2014 #42

Thank you for the backgrounder. El_Johns Feb 2014 #44

Well done... MysticHuman Feb 2014 #46

Matt I do hope you do not mind I copy paste, for reading at leisure nadinbrzezinski Feb 2014 #49

I'm not sure I would classify it as a revolution, not in the classical sense... MattSh Feb 2014 #60

Kicked and rec'd Bennyboy Feb 2014 #52

Oh, there's definitely a strong anti-Yanukovich thing going on... MattSh Feb 2014 #61

Excellent work thanks Bennyboy Feb 2014 #62

Thanks for sharing 2naSalit Feb 2014 #54

One thing is missing from this, the truth that Progressive dog Feb 2014 #57

Thank you, another one of our and our Western Imperial Allies' 'proxy wars'. Hillary explained it sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #58

From CNN and please read the comments Bennyboy Feb 2014 #63

You're ignoring the elephant in the room of ethnic Ukranian nationalism. Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #64

Yeah, because partition works so well, see Yugoslavia. JackRiddler Feb 2014 #71

People without the proper context are misreading the EU issue. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #70

I think ultimately there is no ONE reason people are getting involved, and Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #74

Thanks for this thread gwheezie Feb 2014 #78

+1 truebrit71 Feb 2014 #79