I see there's another one

[RainDog]

110. Thank you for your post, too.

I understand both sides.

My bg is somewhat different than others here. My (now former) sister-in-law, in Europe would go with her husband and kids and go topless on the beach. It was no big deal, but she didn't do so around her parents because it would freak them out.

Her peers, and her kids, etc. didn't get all bothered by this different standard. So sometimes I feel like it's a question of... who are your peers here - and who is coming from another space in this world.

I agree that it's annoying, as a female, to be told how you are supposed to respond to something related to, say, female nudity. The example above explains why. I used to go topless on the beach near where I lived, too, because it was allowed. I wasn't walking around all over the place, etc. just minding my business reading on a blanket in the sun to tan with no lines. Other women did the same. It wasn't a big deal.

My post was sort of an attempt to find a way for both povs to co-exist.

I have friends from other parts of the country and swimming naked was part of growing up - mixed groups, male, female, and there wasn't any big deal about it. Lots of different places this is part of life and no one is crippled by showing their bits.

but one time some guys from another part of the beach wandered into the area and made comments to me that really pissed me off - because they weren't abiding by the idea that I had the right to wear what I wanted in that space without them making me feel like they could say something about their reaction.. to me. that was long ago, before two children, and a lot of life. I wouldn't do that anymore, tho I have gone skinny dipping in a private lake place where I am - but not around my kids, either. so, I have sort of a mix of attitudes, probably.

I find the attacks made here by those who position themselves as "the feminists" are often more off putting than useful, so a lot of times I just have no desire to participate in what they're talking about because they're framing things in such a way... and then to read what basically comes down to "shut up and listen to us tell you how to think" is REALLY, REALLY annoying and offensive because I don't think they know enough to tell me what to think. I am perfectly capable of thinking for myself. But I saw that exact statement here in relation to this... from someone also claiming humans aren't apes. so I'm like... really? You think you know enough to tell me what my reactions are supposed to be when you're so off base?

There was one time, long ago, when a well-loved person from that group attacked a lesbian who was doing her graduate studies in economics, saying that the reason the econ femme didn't get upset about treating sex work as work is because that person had stated she was a stripper and then changed the post. This well-loved person from that group was disgusting in the way she made accusations against that woman... what, are you ashamed? trying to hide you're a stripper? blahblahblah... and the reality is that the well-loved hoffer had confused two people on the thread. But that didn't stop her from this badgering sort of attempt at insult that you still see here in other ways with other people. And, the point, really, is that if a woman is a feminist, she's not going to attack other women for the work they do, even if it involves having no or few clothes on - because that's not feminism - that's using feminism for the same sort of attitude you see among social conservatives.

I think a lot of what passes as feminism here is social conservatism but people haven't had a chance, maybe, to step outside of their own culture to see something for what it is, rather than the "radical" label they put on it to justify the same old same old judgmental attitudes of some women toward others. -- and so often it relates to fashion and other really, really worthless topics, when the red meat of oppression right now is in the political/religious discourse from Republicans.

who wants that sort of feminism?

And the people who have insulted me, and others here, the most, and have gone through this board with a scorched earth policy of nastiness - they're all self-proclaimed feminists. If they want others to be polite to them, they need to be polite to others. They don't get to claim "I'm a woman so I can say what a man can't" and get away with it. It's really sexist in its own way. That's why I don't get riled up about language usage, unless it's direct insults.

If it's direct insults - it doesn't have to have what are viewed as curse words as part of it.

It also disgusts me to see someone trying to smear another person here as racist because they don't think posting the swimsuit issue is a big deal. But this, too, is someone who constantly insults others here. Yet if someone were to do the same to her, it would, no doubt, be because of sexism, not because she has acted like a jerk.

what I see now is that these same people are trying to use the example of racism to justify their judgmental attitudes. It's sad because it cheapens the issue of racism, but, as you know, some women here are "dirty fighters" not ethical ones.