General Discussion

Squinch

(60,472 posts)

84. How about this: If you are working in Elizabeth Warren's office, and you publicly post a T&A

Wed Feb 19, 2014, 10:05 PM

Feb 2014

photo prominently on your workspace, would you think that would be appropriate?

If you were volunteering for your local Democratic organization, would you think it was appropriate to post one of those auto body shop-type nude calendars, prominently in a place that everyone passes?

If the answer to either of those is "no," then why? And how is this different? This is a space for political discussion, where half the members are women.

This has nothing to do with nudity. (My favorite neighborhood restaurant has paintings of nudes on every wall. They're great. I have been known to do the nude beach, though rarely due to fair skin. In my youth I posed nude for an artist.)

It also has nothing to do with not liking sex. Sex and objectification should not be confused.

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Are there women here who are not offended by the SI cover or Kate Upton's spread? [View all] fried eggs Feb 2014 OP

Not me. AngryAmish Feb 2014 #1

are you talking about the images themselves? Or the response to them in GD on DU? VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #2

If not being offended... liberalmuse Feb 2014 #3

If anything it makes your viewpoint CFLDem Feb 2014 #4

They'll probably start ten threads about this one Union Scribe Feb 2014 #12

I just sort of rolled my eyes, to be honest. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #5

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #37

I don't think you're taking them nearly seriously enough. seattledo Feb 2014 #165

Stopping what? leftynyc Feb 2014 #188

Please, elaborate. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #256

Okay I'm with you on your assessment 1awake Feb 2014 #197

Me. I'm far more offended with the media depicting mops, vacuum cleaners Cleita Feb 2014 #6

Excellent point. Some of the most destructive/offensive stuff flies under the radar. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #15

Exactly, what I mean. n/t Cleita Feb 2014 #24

What's offensive about that? woolldog Feb 2014 #85

Excuse me..... A HERETIC I AM Feb 2014 #95

I do. RC Feb 2014 #105

hubby does all the shopping. mopinko Feb 2014 #107

My husband buys all that stuff at our house. He worked in hardware until he retired. Shrike47 Feb 2014 #110

There's aiming at the right consumers, and then there's reinforcing tired stereotypes... nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #125

Think about the men you know... woolldog Feb 2014 #126

As much time as the women I know. That is, the men I know pull their weight. Luminous Animal Feb 2014 #152

I'm male. Feral Child Feb 2014 #210

If I just mopped the floor I would be too. What offends me is all the purple The Straight Story Feb 2014 #26

That ad annoys me. The perfect mom fried eggs Feb 2014 #55

yeah, what you said. nt laundry_queen Feb 2014 #104

Totally analogous to how unrealistic beauty standards affect people, psychologically. nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #128

+1! Scootaloo Feb 2014 #153

I disagree leftynyc Feb 2014 #189

It's not the mere existence of very attractive people. It's how they're promoted as the only nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #191

I don't know ANY men leftynyc Feb 2014 #194

I think there are worthy issues to be raised, but yeah, this particular DU controversy nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #195

The fact that you think there are ..... oldhippie Feb 2014 #219

I had to read that 3 times leftynyc Feb 2014 #230

I was thinking that ..... oldhippie Feb 2014 #233

Hey -- look on the bright side! She most certainly is barefoot.... MADem Feb 2014 #164

While I agree with you over all 1awake Feb 2014 #198

Have you ever mopped with shoes on? Not recommended. mattclearing Feb 2014 #259

What the hell is destructive about that ad? Tumbulu Feb 2014 #280

Thanks for this. Great points. n-t Logical Feb 2014 #98

But it's the same thing. Scootaloo Feb 2014 #136

Well, you are not being influenced and most thinking people wouldn't be. Cleita Feb 2014 #140

Yes, men are also objectified. Scootaloo Feb 2014 #141

I agree. White men are swimming in privilege. It's well known. Cleita Feb 2014 #142

Of course you don't; is that even an argument? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #143

I think we should have venues where we all go naked like Cleita Feb 2014 #147

And again, it's not a commentary about hte models, but rather about society Scootaloo Feb 2014 #149

Well society is what it is and it displays a lot of warts and ugliness at times. n/t Cleita Feb 2014 #150

So shrug and walk away saying "oh well"? Scootaloo Feb 2014 #151

False equivalency. Cleita Feb 2014 #154

Two things I JUST SAID. Scootaloo Feb 2014 #156

It's not that they're not to scale, it's that you're comparing apples to quantum physics. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #277

And still, you intentionally don't get it Scootaloo Feb 2014 #282

Sure Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #283

are you serious Cleita? Tumbulu Feb 2014 #276

I live in a beach area and women in swim suits, seemingly dancing and Cleita Feb 2014 #285

You seriously do not see the difference between regular women wearing swimsuits and that cover from Tumbulu Feb 2014 #286

I really have nothing against porn as long Cleita Feb 2014 #287

Bye Cleita, hoping we get more rain Tumbulu Feb 2014 #288

There is nothing wrong with disagreement as long as we respect each other. Cleita Feb 2014 #290

Oh it is not too late at all, it will make a huge Tumbulu Feb 2014 #291

The pics are okay but GD isn't the place for centerfold photos CJCRANE Feb 2014 #7

Kate Upton's spread ? dipsydoodle Feb 2014 #8

I can't believe it's not butter. Nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #122

I'm offended that DUers think it's OK to post them here eShirl Feb 2014 #9

I don't care one way or the other. Blue_In_AK Feb 2014 #10

:hugs: WillyT Feb 2014 #28

And back at you, WillyT. Blue_In_AK Feb 2014 #56

I'm a woman who couldn't care less Demobrat Feb 2014 #11

On my list of outrages - Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #13

The thing I don't get is woolldog Feb 2014 #14

i deal with swimsuit models sometimes JI7 Feb 2014 #16

All women are grossed out Demobrat Feb 2014 #21

yes that is right, but sometimes people use them doing things like posing in a bikini JI7 Feb 2014 #27

The same idiots Demobrat Feb 2014 #42

yes, i'm sure they would do the same to those who are fully clothes JI7 Feb 2014 #51

The SI cover didn't offend LadyHawkAZ Feb 2014 #17

There are feminists who find sexuality offensive? Feminists here were calling out objectification, redqueen Feb 2014 #46

Objectification? Cleita Feb 2014 #181

It's sad when women repeat misogynist right wing talking points. redqueen Feb 2014 #200

That last comment was really out of line theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #223

"some groups find sexuality offensive" fried eggs Feb 2014 #48

I hope you repented. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #70

I don't know if it's that, honestly. I don't find sex or even sexual imagery offensive at all nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #129

"Sexuality" encompasses a lot more than just the act of intercourse. LadyHawkAZ Feb 2014 #161

Well? What do you think? Are you a feminist? kcr Feb 2014 #18

I think I am. My version of feminism involves equal pay and opportunity fried eggs Feb 2014 #52

Okay. I think most who object to the GD posts would say the same thing. kcr Feb 2014 #64

Your answer really helped! fried eggs Feb 2014 #68

How about this: If you are working in Elizabeth Warren's office, and you publicly post a T&A Squinch Feb 2014 #84

And how is this different? fried eggs Feb 2014 #97

I don't think it has to be only serious topics, Squinch Feb 2014 #99

For me it's about context kcr Feb 2014 #114

I think you're right JJChambers Feb 2014 #19

This is an anonymous posting board....how can you devine anyone's gender (with some exceptions)? Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #29

You must not travel much. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #32

Enough.... Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #36

Maybe it's the places you travel to that are the problem. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #38

Do you suggest I travel to, say, Saudia Arabia, for inspiration Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #44

You're 61 years old. If you haven't encountered a rainbow spectrum of feminists at your age... Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #53

Amazing, isn't it? Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #57

You've undoubtedly met thousands. Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #62

I've met a few in real life Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #146

That must of been just awful for you. Luminous Animal Feb 2014 #158

Au contraire Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #168

Sorry. Forgot the sarcasm tag. But big giant kudos to you for you to sticking with your Luminous Animal Feb 2014 #172

Yes, I made a valiant effort to use the word "middlemen" in my lecture Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #176

And know doubt, being called on it, has scarred you for life. Luminous Animal Feb 2014 #180

Yes, those silly women for labeling me a "misogynist", Art_from_Ark Feb 2014 #184

I travel a lot, and I am with you--I've never met a soul like that in person. MADem Feb 2014 #166

I think you are on to something, MADem.... Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #167

Heh...sounds like a plan! Either option--the PICS solution or the "Ban All Gender Discussions" one! MADem Feb 2014 #169

crab and carp? Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #171

Would you like the cole slaw with that? MADem Feb 2014 #173

That totally sounds like something you'd eat in New England. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #179

Yeah--I must say, the seafood is a plus when it comes to this neck of the woods! MADem Feb 2014 #182

Stop, just stop. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #185

Now that's good eatin'!! nt MADem Feb 2014 #186

No way, man. I'm all about "Weird News", these days. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #170

Weird News is a great group! There's some wild stuff up in there on occasion.... MADem Feb 2014 #174

Oh, now you've done it. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #178

OMG that is the funniest picture I have seen in a long while!! MADem Feb 2014 #183

We don't need another group, just post them all here: seaglass Feb 2014 #201

That wouldn't work, though. MADem Feb 2014 #229

Not sure why you think it wouldn't work because the thread already exists in the Men's Group. seaglass Feb 2014 #237

Because that is a closed group and not everyone has access to it. MADem Feb 2014 #239

Are you looking for a place to fight it out? Because I don't think people are interested in that. seaglass Feb 2014 #245

Actually, I'm looking for a disused corner, accessible to all, where people can throw this shit MADem Feb 2014 #250

The reason you don't see it in the workplace BainsBane Feb 2014 #293

I have encountered a number of them Sen. Walter Sobchak Feb 2014 #281

Why woujld women care about equal rights? BainsBane Feb 2014 #292

Just so people understand how useless the jury system is on this website... Gravitycollapse Feb 2014 #47

It really is Exhibit A for a lot of the bullshit that gets flung around here. Though most are more nomorenomore08 Feb 2014 #137

I hear you. Pointing out derogatory words only gives them more ammuntion R B Garr Feb 2014 #144

Really? I missed that completely etherealtruth Feb 2014 #67

I may have missed something leftynyc Feb 2014 #190

SI has never claimed that etherealtruth Feb 2014 #192

Here is what Kate Upton had to say about the three ladies on the SI cover The Straight Story Feb 2014 #20

She's objectifying them! Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #30

Lols d_b Feb 2014 #206

Haven't seen it and don't plan to see him malaise Feb 2014 #22

I, for one, couldn't care less about either one. WillowTree Feb 2014 #23

Not being personally offended noamnety Feb 2014 #25

Did the pictures create a hostile environment or the responses to the pictures? fried eggs Feb 2014 #65

Individuals can definitely be sellouts noamnety Feb 2014 #88

Wow. Squinch Feb 2014 #90

+ a million. nt laundry_queen Feb 2014 #109

yeah, i dont give a shit. nt La Lioness Priyanka Feb 2014 #31

I'm too tired from actually fighting for the rights of women to notice the mental masturbation. msanthrope Feb 2014 #33

Offended? No. Chorophyll Feb 2014 #34

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #39

Very true. Old and In the Way Feb 2014 #41

+1 MadrasT Feb 2014 #45

It's Lounge material theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #226

I think it was mainly posted to goad people into reacting so their posts get hidden R B Garr Feb 2014 #35

I agree. nt Chorophyll Feb 2014 #43

That was my impression too. A Little Weird Feb 2014 #49

I notice there are no outraged " not this shit again" sufrommich Feb 2014 #40

I don't think there are many women here who are offended by that cover per se. pnwmom Feb 2014 #50

Exactly. theHandpuppet Feb 2014 #203

I'm not offended by them at all. peacebird Feb 2014 #54

I'm not at all offended. But it's pretty shallow discussion for a political forum. JaneyVee Feb 2014 #58

Oh please, get over it. tavernier Feb 2014 #59

I'm horribly offended... OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #60

I'm not and babylonsister Feb 2014 #61

My wife... Xolodno Feb 2014 #63

Great post! fried eggs Feb 2014 #160

I could not give a shit less about the SI Swimsuit Edition or the Kate Upton photo shoot. scarletwoman Feb 2014 #66

"But that's not at all what the mindset was behind posting them" DontTreadOnMe Feb 2014 #73

No, I'm a post reader. scarletwoman Feb 2014 #77

The original thread was posted by a woman Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #69

Why exactly does it matter that a woman posted it? I see this point made repeatedly and I honestly seaglass Feb 2014 #204

Because the OP is asking specifically about women's attitudes toward the thing. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #222

My, you've got the script down pat BainsBane Feb 2014 #294

I haven't seen them, but I fully agree there is no reason to post them here. Quantess Feb 2014 #71

None of that bothers me. Women and men can do what they want to do. Autumn Feb 2014 #72

Not offended, but annoyed. Maedhros Feb 2014 #74

My career has been in advertising for the past 35 years;... TeeYiYi Feb 2014 #75

Couldn't care less dorkzilla Feb 2014 #76

Perfect! +1,000,000. polly7 Feb 2014 #80

Honey Badger Feminism! LadyHawkAZ Feb 2014 #108

I like your answer. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #117

Do you respect the Civil Rights Act of 1964? BainsBane Feb 2014 #78

Are you out of your fucking mind? OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #92

Well, below I said that there were a lot of women here who were not in agreement Squinch Feb 2014 #93

I parsed every single word of your post in every way imaginable. OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #94

This thread was an actual discussion among mostly women. They were disagreeing and stating Squinch Feb 2014 #96

Oh, I see. OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #100

Not explicitly, no BainsBane Feb 2014 #103

Seems to me... OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #112

When did I say it was an "amen corner." BainsBane Feb 2014 #123

Chin music, chin music, chin music and then... OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #135

I think she's convinced herself pintobean Feb 2014 #118

Not only that, opiate69 Feb 2014 #124

Looks like here cubemate got an unpaid leave. OilemFirchen Feb 2014 #138

Lol. pintobean Feb 2014 #139

Do you consider your local grocery store for promoting a hostile environment by openly selling Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #120

That isn't the same thing at all BainsBane Feb 2014 #157

People don't see SI at checkout lanes? Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #163

Or you could just not click on the thread. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2014 #148

Who, precisely, is your employer if DU is your workplace???? msanthrope Feb 2014 #199

Try reading the rest of the subthread BainsBane Feb 2014 #207

Oh...I read the subthread...I still wanna know when you got hired. nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #208

Here. perhaps this will help BainsBane Feb 2014 #211

It seems she knows better pintobean Feb 2014 #212

Yup.. and, opiate69 Feb 2014 #213

That line is why I bookmarked the thread. pintobean Feb 2014 #215

"And, lo! There was much consternation and knitting of brows across the land" opiate69 Feb 2014 #274

volunteering here? on behalf of whom? I hate missionaries. nt msanthrope Feb 2014 #214

I'd prefer to say that I'm aware of the intent to marginalize feminism in online spaces. LeftyMom Feb 2014 #79

No, but the fact that you appear to lack the empathy Kelvin Mace Feb 2014 #81

doesn't bother me RainDog Feb 2014 #82

I also think that people might have an easier time if they didn't interpret "that person looks nice" Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #86

t I want to be sensitive about hostile environments, and whatnot. opiate69 Feb 2014 #102

She's not my type, anyway. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #113

don't take this personally RainDog Feb 2014 #132

Heh Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #133

... RainDog Feb 2014 #134

More like wistful for my youthful body mainer Feb 2014 #83

Nobody is too old to wear a bikini. Which is ONE answer to objectification. Luminous Animal Feb 2014 #162

Exactly. Thank you redqueen Feb 2014 #205

My $0.02 tammywammy Feb 2014 #87

This is actually an interesting question to me. And let me ask YOU a question. Squinch Feb 2014 #89

No. Maybe that's the disconnect I have fried eggs Feb 2014 #106

It is clear that your curiosity is genuine, and since it is finally being discussed civilly, Squinch Feb 2014 #111

My work environments have been 99 to 100% women fried eggs Feb 2014 #115

In some ways, it was a great education about people, and I'm long out of it. Squinch Feb 2014 #119

One other observation: Squinch Feb 2014 #91

Trash. nt valerief Feb 2014 #101

It's all about drama AgingAmerican Feb 2014 #116

Honestly, I started it and after having several days to think about it RiffRandell Feb 2014 #121

Hey- Didja catch the one where you were compared to Phylis Shlafly? Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #193

No, but not surprised. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #196

I'm not bothered by 840high Feb 2014 #127

Didn't bother me in the least. Sissyk Feb 2014 #130

meh. They chose to do it. alphafemale Feb 2014 #131

*yawn* Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #145

I am not one of them. KitSileya Feb 2014 #155

+1 cinnabonbon Feb 2014 #221

Thanks for that. KitSileya Feb 2014 #247

I agree, and I'm a woman definitely not a HoFer. Waiting For Everyman Feb 2014 #252

It does not bother me in itself treestar Feb 2014 #159

It didn't bother me either... Violet_Crumble Feb 2014 #177

But where they cute? treestar Feb 2014 #202

I don't look at SI Swimsuit exboyfil Feb 2014 #175

I couldn't care less leftynyc Feb 2014 #187

I'm going to make everyone mad. I don't think it should have been posted here AND I dont think it stevenleser Feb 2014 #209

Doesn't make me mad - ever have anything to say about kitty posts in GD? seaglass Feb 2014 #218

I understand just fine. stevenleser Feb 2014 #234

Well, the kitties have never pintobean Feb 2014 #236

LMAO, kitties are always in their birthday suits! nt stevenleser Feb 2014 #238

Okay, you've forced me pintobean Feb 2014 #241

Gaaaaa! No nude cat pics! stevenleser Feb 2014 #249

Your post did not reflect disagreement it reflected not understanding. n/t seaglass Feb 2014 #240

No, YOUR most recent post reflected non understanding. Mine reflected disagreement. nt stevenleser Feb 2014 #243

I know you are but what am I. Geez. I feel like I'm in middle school. n/t seaglass Feb 2014 #246

I explained to you how I understand but disagree. You seemed to not get it. nt stevenleser Feb 2014 #248

I was speaking of your first post, not your second. n/t seaglass Feb 2014 #257

Nussbaum also had this to say RainDog Feb 2014 #284

I don't think anyone was offended by it gollygee Feb 2014 #228

Yes, they were and said as much when they raised the idea of a hostile environment. nt stevenleser Feb 2014 #235

Noting a hostile environment gollygee Feb 2014 #244

That is trying to make way too fine a point of it. nt stevenleser Feb 2014 #253

Your post is spot-on. Vashta Nerada Feb 2014 #289

You actually believe that people are offended by the pics? Democracyinkind Feb 2014 #216

Yes, it's just doesn't register on my list of things to be offended about. I am offended by sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #217

I guess I'm late to the game. Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #220

Near-naked butts pintobean Feb 2014 #224

Good heavens! Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #225

I knew you'd be able to fill in the gaps pintobean Feb 2014 #227

It's like there's nothing else to worry about ... Fantastic Anarchist Feb 2014 #231

The thongs looked like bad wedgies libodem Feb 2014 #255

Me! It's all on me! RiffRandell Feb 2014 #232

And wicked wedgies libodem Feb 2014 #258

Wedgies were so darned uncomfortably. In_The_Wind Feb 2014 #262

No shit libodem Feb 2014 #272

I double objectified because I looked at this: The Straight Story Feb 2014 #260

Shameful. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #261

LOL, you didn't post any discussion. Remember? You just posted pictures. R B Garr Feb 2014 #264

I didn't say I posted a discussion. RiffRandell Feb 2014 #265

You said you wanted "cred" for a spirited discussion, but you didn't discuss anything R B Garr Feb 2014 #266

Go for it! RiffRandell Feb 2014 #267

LOL @ you editing your post to delete that part about being happy you offended me R B Garr Feb 2014 #268

I deleted it prior to your response because you are RiffRandell Feb 2014 #269

Thanks for admitting you were happy you offended me.* It's obvious that's your goal. R B Garr Feb 2014 #270

I really dont see the problem here. Mrdrboi Feb 2014 #242

Not me. Polly Hennessey Feb 2014 #251

As I stare my 63rd birthday in the face a few short weeks from now... 3catwoman3 Feb 2014 #254

I'm not offended. HappyMe Feb 2014 #263

I am 75 years old and have always been a feminist, RebelOne Feb 2014 #271

Word! libodem Feb 2014 #273

They don't count. The only valid "progressive" position on sex and nudity is Rick Santorum's. Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #275

not offended at all GRACIEBIRD Feb 2014 #278

I found them demeaning and I also think there is something wrong Tumbulu Feb 2014 #279