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Tommy_Carcetti

(44,587 posts)
131. You really are reading way too much into that one particular line.
Fri Feb 21, 2014, 12:59 PM
Feb 2014

I don't believe the court reporter even picked up that particular line, and even if she did say it, it could have any number of meanings. As you saw, she wasn't exactly that skilled in her abilities to clearly express herself. But you appear to believe that Jeantel fabricated much of her testimony to help the state's case. Again, I would ask why on earth then she would testify to a nearly all white jury that Trayvon called Zimmerman a "creepy ass cracker", especially given the undeniable racial undertones of this case? And even if you don't want to believe a word Jeantel said, her cellphone records are undeniable--she was on the phone with Trayvon up to the point of the altercation with Zimmerman, and what sort of person talks audibly on a phone while planning a sneak ambush of someone?

The jury's verdict was the jury's verdict, and without any evidence of actual jury misconduct, I'll accept it as legitimate. However, that doesn't mean I think it was 100% wrong.

Because this was a self-defense case and Zimmerman had admitted to the shooting, he was not without any affirmative burden in this case. He did have the duty to put forward a plausible argument of self-defense (not beyond a reasonable doubt, that would be the state's ultimate burden, but still he had some affirmative burden based on the nature of his case.) In this case, that means he essentially had to put forward some sort of logical sounding claim that he was ambushed by surprise and then had no choice but to use deadly force to end it because he thought his life was in danger. And I, and many other people, simply do not think he put forward any logical scenario where he was ambushed.

Many of the things you claimed created reasonable doubt I really would argue didn't matter in the greater picture. Yes, John Good said he thought he saw Trayvon on top, but it was only for a couple of seconds in the middle of the altercation. You also had Jayne Surdyka, who gave us the only 911 call that provided contemporary recorded evidence of the moment Zimmerman actually shot Trayvon. She testified seeing Zimmerman on top and believing that the voice crying for help was Trayvon. You had other witnesses also putting Zimmerman on top.

But really, in the end, you have to ask--is it likely that Zimmerman was actually ambushed by Trayvon. And Zimmerman's story is so illogical and full of holes that I simply cannot take it serious. And once his story is discarded as not being credible, then that's all she wrote. Guilty.

I know the jury's spoken and there's nothing else that can be done about that. But I really would ask you aside from the normal evidentiary burdens, what is your personal opinion on whether Zimmerman legitimately acted in self-defense? Including all of what we about Zimmerman both before and after the incident. There are some questions that need to be considered, namely:

1. Whether Zimmerman is a volatile person prone to anger, considering his past arrest for battery on a law enforcement officer, a prior restraining order taken out against him by a former girlfriend, and contentious incidents that have occurred since his acquittal, including an altercation with his former wife and father in law and an altercation with his live-in girlfriend?

2. Whether on the night of his shooting Zimmerman's emotional judgment had been clouded by the fact that he had a major argument with his wife and she had left the house as a result?

3. Why Zimmerman--who wasn't even on regular neighborhood watch duty that evening--felt the need to call police dispatch on Trayvon and claim he was "up to no good" despite the fact he had not actually observed Trayvon doing anything that appeared to be illegal?

4. Whether Zimmerman's comment, "these assholes, they always get away" indicates some level of dissatisfaction with the prior response from police and may have indicated an intent by Zimmerman to take the law into his own hands and at least attempt to detain Trayvon while police arrived?

5. Why Zimmerman felt the need to exit his car at any time during the entire incident, and even more importantly, why he felt the need to exit his car while armed with a handgun?

6. Whether Zimmerman's comment "fucking punks" indicated some level of frustration and anger Zimmerman had at Trayvon for whatever perceived violation he believes Trayvon committed?

7. Why Zimmerman changed his mind with dispatch and told police not to meet him at his car but instead to call him when they arrived (thus indicating that he might not be at his car)?

8. Why two minutes after hanging up with dispatch when he claimed he was heading back to his car and was "attacked" was not actually at his car given that it was only 100-150 feet from where he claimed to be at the time of hang up?

9. Why someone would need to cross through to the other side of street away from his car just to get a street address and then cross back and go towards his car to report the street address, when a street address was easily visible from where his car was parked?

10. Whether it is probable for someone who is being chased by a stranger for reasons unknown to that person and who then manages to escape his pursuer to almost immediately decide to double back and attack the same stranger he had tried so hard to escape?

11. Whether it is probable for someone planning a sneak ambush on somebody to remain audible on a phone up to the point of actual ambush?

12. Why did Zimmerman only suffer injuries that were described as minor and insignificant (to the point where Zimmerman refused emergency care) and then claim his head was bashed into concrete anywhere from 10 to 30 times (which would almost certainly result in much more severe injuries)?

13. Why did Zimmerman claim that he was the individual who could clearly be heard crying for help on the 911 call when he also claimed that Trayvon had his hand over his mouth?

14. When claiming he was being severely beaten by Trayvon and that the only way to stop the fight was to use his gun, why would he shoot then immediately before Trayvon had a chance to react at a gun being pointed at him?

Ask those questions to yourself honestly, and tell me even if you agree with the jury verdict (based on the burden of proof) how probable was it that Zimmerman was legitimately acting prudently and in genuine self-defense that evening.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Unfortunately for him those pesky LeftofObama Feb 2014 #1
Well, George, I don't think I'd take much comfort in that. Arkansas Granny Feb 2014 #2
Can someone tell me the name of the movie in which people like George were hunted down by secret kelliekat44 Feb 2014 #71
Rouge cops sounds a little camp....are you sure that's what you meant?.. pkdu Feb 2014 #82
Star Chamber louis-t Feb 2014 #101
and who appointed Zimmerman to judge Trayvon. . . B Calm Feb 2014 #3
+1 Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #40
+1 geardaddy Feb 2014 #47
+infinity sakabatou Feb 2014 #62
Apparently Trayvon Martin did cpwm17 Feb 2014 #63
Because he was black and wearing a hoodie and that B Calm Feb 2014 #65
Yes, GZ did follow TM in his truck for a while cpwm17 Feb 2014 #67
Actually Trayvon was fearing for his life and stood his ground against B Calm Feb 2014 #68
No, TM had plenty of time to go home cpwm17 Feb 2014 #69
No, GZ was told by the police to stop following TM. He ignored the police and continued B Calm Feb 2014 #70
The 9-11 operator isn't the police cpwm17 Feb 2014 #74
9-11 operators work for the police. In many rural areas the 9-11 operators are police! if GZ B Calm Feb 2014 #77
As I wrote above cpwm17 Feb 2014 #86
As I have stated, all GZ had to do was stop judging, stalking and BACKED OFF. Instead B Calm Feb 2014 #87
Why was Zimmerman at the top of the dogwalk two minutes after hanging up with dispatch? Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #96
The 'T' intersection on the dog walk were the assault happened was not far from his truck cpwm17 Feb 2014 #116
Trayvon's cellphone was also on the ground. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #117
When being brutally attacked by stranger cpwm17 Feb 2014 #122
The evidence can be done via logical inference. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #124
Because he was still hunting pokerfan Feb 2014 #125
Wrong phil89 Feb 2014 #76
I don't know if you noticed, Aristus Feb 2014 #72
+1 B Calm Feb 2014 #73
So this is the evidence-free, kangaroo court website? cpwm17 Feb 2014 #75
George Zimmerman killed the only person who could refute his Aristus Feb 2014 #81
There's no evidence whatsoever that Trayvon initiated any assault on Zimmerman. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #91
Doesn't he know that DU is full of psychics Vattel Feb 2014 #4
What does that suppose to mean? B Calm Feb 2014 #6
Now you did it.... Lost_Count Feb 2014 #7
There was an ear-witness, but..... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #8
Maybe her credibility was damaged by saying "You want that too?" when asked if Zimmerman Vattel Feb 2014 #13
Her testimony was consistent with the facts. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #22
I don't think you know what I am referring to. Vattel Feb 2014 #28
I knew what you were talking about. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #31
well, I guess we will just have to disagree about that. Vattel Feb 2014 #34
Trayvon: "Why are you following me?" Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #35
Well, again, her testimony lacks all credibility. Vattel Feb 2014 #44
Clearly that's your take on it. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #45
I appreciate your position, but partly because I think Jaentel's testimony lacks all credibility, Vattel Feb 2014 #48
It's bizarre for anyone who's been running in fear to decide to do a complete 180... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #49
You are just wrong. Vattel Feb 2014 #51
Reposted: Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #90
There are lots of possible scenarios as to how they met up again. Vattel Feb 2014 #112
Again, there was nothing inherently uncredible about Jeantel's testimony. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #118
Jaentel credible? In the state attorney interview, he had to remind her not to lie. Vattel Feb 2014 #128
Yes, we have innocent until proven guilty cpwm17 Feb 2014 #130
You really are reading way too much into that one particular line. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #131
There is too much to respond to here to make it worth my time, Vattel Feb 2014 #132
Regarding "creepy ass cracker" Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #133
Your problem is that you view the actions that occurred that night Lurks Often Feb 2014 #53
I was a 17 year old male once. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #92
We're not going to agree Lurks Often Feb 2014 #93
And you're automatically assuming a 17 year old would act recklessly.... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #94
I'm not automatically assuming a 17 year old would act recklessly, Lurks Often Feb 2014 #98
The only *logical* possiblity to support the Trayvon ambush story... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #99
You keep making assumptions and passing them off as logical probabilities Lurks Often Feb 2014 #108
One or more times does not equal 10-30 times, which is what Zimmerman claimed. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #109
Still making assumptions and you still fail to understand the law. Lurks Often Feb 2014 #110
Here's your problem in defending Zimmerman Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #111
And still you miss the point and you also failed to answer my question Lurks Often Feb 2014 #113
Well, to answer your question... Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #119
Nonsense, I am perfectly willing to criticize a "good guy with a gun." Lurks Often Feb 2014 #127
so the victim is the perp routine again heaven05 Feb 2014 #106
some people on here want their hero heaven05 Feb 2014 #104
Yes, when the original claims by the pro-conviction side collapsed cpwm17 Feb 2014 #10
I agree. Vattel Feb 2014 #11
Yes, GZ is no choir boy and it's entirely possible that Zimmerman did murder Martin cpwm17 Feb 2014 #18
Let me ask you a question. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #21
You are missing a very big piece. clffrdjk Feb 2014 #88
I don't think you're familar with the layout of the Twin Lakes complex. Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #89
Apparently it's full of assholes as well. nt TheMathieu Feb 2014 #12
You are a case-in-point there. Vattel Feb 2014 #14
Not to worry... TheMathieu Feb 2014 #15
That is a stereotypical response cpwm17 Feb 2014 #20
you are truly blind to the facts heaven05 Feb 2014 #105
defending the zimpig heaven05 Feb 2014 #107
The evidence strongly indicates that it was TM that attacked GZ cpwm17 Feb 2014 #115
typical response of the willfully blind heaven05 Feb 2014 #120
"Pummeled" yet his injuries were described as "insignficant." nt Tommy_Carcetti Feb 2014 #121
Anyone that claims it was no big deal cpwm17 Feb 2014 #123
He already beat up his GF, socked his FIL in the face, and tore up two different women's apts. bravenak Feb 2014 #56
DU is full of pyschics and Florida is full of psychos notadmblnd Feb 2014 #17
lol, fair enough Vattel Feb 2014 #32
you are correct - amazing how many here know exactly what happened that evening DrDan Feb 2014 #24
you do know that includes you - right? Skittles Feb 2014 #57
sorry but I don't claim to know what happened Vattel Feb 2014 #58
LOLOL Skittles Feb 2014 #60
typical stupid response Vattel Feb 2014 #61
I am NOT NAIVE Skittles Feb 2014 #64
We know a great deal about what happened. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #114
Just keep going the way you have been George and it may be sooner than you think. hobbit709 Feb 2014 #5
Seeing as how he got away with murder, I understand why he thinks that is true. Warren Stupidity Feb 2014 #9
Tip for you, GZ durablend Feb 2014 #16
HIS god does! FiveGoodMen Feb 2014 #52
Duzy treestar Feb 2014 #55
Why is the media giving this attention whore what he wants? chrisa Feb 2014 #19
It's not even that -- It's just the kiddie-glove softball bullshit questions Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #41
God's gonna send you straight into Lucifer's welcoming arms, Zimmy boy. Arkana Feb 2014 #23
what a pompous arrogant lowdown snake rbrnmw Feb 2014 #25
'So I'd leave it up to him' Rex Feb 2014 #26
Courtesy of n2doc: jsr Feb 2014 #27
Nope. The furies exist. "The Eumenides" was not written on a dare Recursion Feb 2014 #29
Furies? phil89 Feb 2014 #78
Oddly enough, that's the whole point of the play Recursion Feb 2014 #79
Well, I don't pipi_k Feb 2014 #30
Well, GZ might as well try to bullshit God .. DemoTex Feb 2014 #33
And George when you stand before God and he has taken the form of Trayvon Martin...What will you say diabeticman Feb 2014 #36
I wouldn't be taking a lot of comfort in that... 3catwoman3 Feb 2014 #37
Hope you like it hot georgie. jwirr Feb 2014 #38
I do not think Zimmerman has the same concept of "God" as the rest of us Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #39
hey right wingers isnt Zimmy desecrating your god? alp227 Feb 2014 #42
The best way to respond to zimmerman is to ignore him Gothmog Feb 2014 #43
That's right Georgie. And that means you're fucked. cliffordu Feb 2014 #46
easy for a non-believer to say WhaTHellsgoingonhere Feb 2014 #50
people have been claiming God is on their side forever treestar Feb 2014 #54
Well, if God is Real, you are Fucked! fascisthunter Feb 2014 #59
Murdering piece of shit alarimer Feb 2014 #66
Travon Martin was standing his ground then was murdered. Lint Head Feb 2014 #80
enjoy hell - God Nanjing to Seoul Feb 2014 #83
Then you surely know this phrase attributed to your God: rustydog Feb 2014 #84
Fine. Someone run him over with a deuce-and-a-half jmowreader Feb 2014 #85
Sorry George - that's not truth malaise Feb 2014 #95
Someday soon Responsible Gun Owner, Gun Zealot and Gun Owning Poster Child Zimmerman wocaonimabi Feb 2014 #97
GZ: "Satan is the only judge that I have to answer to." Jamaal510 Feb 2014 #100
I don't think Satan wants anything to do with GZ either. Shoulders of Giants Feb 2014 #102
And answer you will Tippy Feb 2014 #103
Burden of Proof in Self Defense / SYG Vox Moi Feb 2014 #126
At the rate he's going, I suspect he'll be proven wrong. (nt) Heidi Feb 2014 #129
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