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Bjorn Against

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83. That chart only lists a small number of countries which were cherry picked to make a point

Reply to JJChambers (Reply #81)

Sat Feb 22, 2014, 06:43 PM

Feb 2014

Not all countries have the same suicide rates as that chart may lead one to believe.

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WOW: Guns to surpass car accidents as leading cause of deaths among young people [View all] kpete Feb 2014 OP

Both are dropping, but vehicle deaths are dropping much faster. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #1

Gun deaths vs gun injuries. ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #57

Gun-related homicide has seen the same trend. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #59

But access to an in home gun makes suicide by gun more likely. tblue37 Feb 2014 #88

Cars can be made safer... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #89

I WiSH I could say I'm surprised, but sadly.... hlthe2b Feb 2014 #2

Why would gun owners hold against you a preference to not see youth car deaths decrease? aikoaiko Feb 2014 #4

Wow.. you haven't been around here over the past year(s) much, have you? hlthe2b Feb 2014 #5

Don't worry. Insults to pro-2A DUers are "hide-proof." Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #100

Wait for self driving cars. It will drop even more. n-t Logical Feb 2014 #3

This is great news! Bad Thoughts Feb 2014 #6

THIS!!!!!! BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #22

Most legal gun owners tend to agree about safe storage. blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #35

But we are talking about 'kids' 15 to 24. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #120

I have some heart burn about this one too. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #123

Your post points to an issue that is great concern to me BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #127

Well, most (all? not sure, certainly most) states have a waiting period for handguns. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #129

Less guns is the only one I can come up with. BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #131

OK I'm in proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #122

So what can be done? Nothing? BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #130

Well, I may not know much, but I know this AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #133

I know, and it is part of what is making us a 2nd world country BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #134

Canada and Europe do not have the second amendment and your not going to get your way. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #137

It's probably true that for the time being there's not going to be any sanity in our gun laws. DanTex Feb 2014 #145

Not surprising. In any nation that largely forbids firearm ownership it is only obvious ... spin Feb 2014 #176

I stopped reading when I got to the "gang violence" talking point. DanTex Feb 2014 #180

So if your think that gang violence which accounts for 12% of all homicides is insignificant ... spin Feb 2014 #181

Not quite "insiginficant", but certainly not "the main cause" as many many pro-gunners claim. DanTex Feb 2014 #182

The choice is to try to finds a number of different ways to reduce gun violence. ... spin Feb 2014 #183

Universal background checks would be a step in the right direction. DanTex Feb 2014 #185

My point is that largely we gave the gun lobby and the GOP the ability ... spin Feb 2014 #186

The AWB was dropped, and it still failed. DanTex Feb 2014 #187

There is no doubt that our opinions on a good appraoch to gun control differ but I still feel ... spin Feb 2014 #189

We've tried your approach, it hasn't worked. DanTex Feb 2014 #190

I do remember the background check vote and that also that it had overwhelming public support. ... spin Feb 2014 #210

Going after the AWB didn't make any difference in the background check vote. DanTex Feb 2014 #212

Since I hope to see some improvements to our national gun laws ... spin Feb 2014 #216

Delete. Replied to wrong post. (n/t) spin Feb 2014 #188

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #7

Um... tosh Feb 2014 #9

What Are Gang Bangers? otohara Feb 2014 #10

Gang members that shoot at each other. badtoworse Feb 2014 #11

Brown people. Iggo Feb 2014 #29

Yep. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #32

Evidence of racism? blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #36

He said "gang bangers". ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #37

there are no white gangs? Duckhunter935 Feb 2014 #39

I'm sure there are. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #40

I don't like the term...precisely because of that association. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #62

Yeah, white kids are called gangbangers all the time. Iggo Feb 2014 #73

And some whites listen to gangsta rap Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #177

So when you hear the term "gang banger" blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #41

I don't. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #42

Not "defending" anything. blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #43

Since by any measure gang members who are white are a TINY minority of gang members Gormy Cuss Feb 2014 #168

Riiiggghttt Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #178

Trayvon Martin Was Called A Gangbanger otohara Feb 2014 #61

And the OKC bomber was called a terrorist... Iggo Feb 2014 #70

Hmmm JJChambers Feb 2014 #75

That's bullshit. There are gangs of every ethnicity badtoworse Feb 2014 #84

I am unaware of any instances of someone using "gangbanger" in reference to white kids. Iggo Feb 2014 #86

You thought wrong, what can I say. badtoworse Feb 2014 #96

This is a geographical issue. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #124

In my neck of the woods, those "gangbangers" would be Hispanic Packerowner740 Feb 2014 #109

billie bangers father founding Feb 2014 #144

Two things.... Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #12

Vehicular deaths are accidents. Deaths from gang violence are intentional. badtoworse Feb 2014 #14

Many deaths from guns are intentional. Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #15

I think I see the point he is trying to make JJChambers Feb 2014 #19

A person who likes to speed is more likely to be killed in an accident Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #48

How about Crepuscular Feb 2014 #55

No, reporting all the numbers is the most reasonable thing to do Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #58

Including suicides is misleading JJChambers Feb 2014 #64

Access to guns makes suicide far more likely Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #66

I guess you missed post #16 JJChambers Feb 2014 #67

People would resort to other means they are more likely to survive Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #68

I don't think so JJChambers Feb 2014 #77

If that were the case I would be dead right now Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #79

I'm not about to disagree with your life experience JJChambers Feb 2014 #81

That chart only lists a small number of countries which were cherry picked to make a point Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #83

That graph shows Crepuscular Feb 2014 #93

So, how do the Japanese succeed so well sans guns? Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #101

No one claimed that suicides don't happen without guns Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #103

FAR more? I seriously doubt that. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #69

The reseach disagrees with you... Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #76

So... JJChambers Feb 2014 #78

Yes, it would plummet in the absence of guns Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #82

Yes, that is what the data and the research implies. DanTex Feb 2014 #108

What if we treated suicidal depression instead? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #191

What's this "instead"? DanTex Feb 2014 #193

"I'm all for improving healthcare. But I never think of it as an alternative to improving gun laws." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #194

LOL. Somewhere I read that conservatives are not comfortable with nuance... DanTex Feb 2014 #195

"Gun control saves lives." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #196

OK, so now we get down to the heart of the matter. DanTex Feb 2014 #197

"You probably don't believe global warming is real either." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #198

LOL. "Debunked studies". DanTex Feb 2014 #199

What laws would you propose that would pass constitutional and electoral muster? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #200

Electoral muster. The John Beohner test. Interesting standard there. DanTex Feb 2014 #201

electoral = of the electorate = the voters. Congress = congressional. I wrote electoral. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #202

I don't think you understand our system of government. DanTex Feb 2014 #203

I was referring to how a gun control law passed a Democratic-controlled state house and a Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #204

Yes, we should base all our policies on the outcomes of two special state congress elections. DanTex Feb 2014 #205

"I'm in favor of handgun registration and licensing" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #206

By making it harder to go out and buy a gun on a whim, and reducing irresponsible gun ownership. DanTex Feb 2014 #207

Waiting periods are the check to whim purchasing. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #208

Waiting periods would be good too. DanTex Feb 2014 #209

Hyperbole Crepuscular Feb 2014 #92

There is no logic in the comparison. That's my point badtoworse Feb 2014 #20

But you didn't say "remove homicides from the statistics". You said "remove gang bangers" muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #114

The deceased in each case did not intend to die. The comparison is appropriate. morningfog Feb 2014 #51

Fail. Agschmid Feb 2014 #17

The implicit assumption is that if guns were unavailable, the gang violence would not have occurred. badtoworse Feb 2014 #21

So if gang members had no guns they would still kill each other at the same rate? n-t Logical Feb 2014 #26

Apparently... Seems off base to me. Agschmid Feb 2014 #52

There is no way to know how many deaths would occur using other weapons badtoworse Feb 2014 #80

They would still kill each other as efficiently as they could proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #138

That's simply not true. DanTex Feb 2014 #147

What exact part of that is not true? proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #151

This part: DanTex Feb 2014 #152

I do not agree with your assertions. proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #217

Once we relax the war on drugs, that should go a long way NickB79 Feb 2014 #45

because, see, gang bangers don't count when talking about gun humpers? Skittles Feb 2014 #50

I know it's GD AlertProof, but could you drop the sex crap? Thanx! Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #102

Even habitual criminals' deaths are important. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #60

Of course every life is important badtoworse Feb 2014 #85

Agreed: it is an absurd, disingenuous comparison. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #98

There's a link between group sex and gun violence? JVS Feb 2014 #72

They reject that reality, man. Gang violence is the main cause of gun homicide. But Skip Intro Feb 2014 #91

This post just blows my mind. Skinner Feb 2014 #97

You're wrong. And here's why... Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #104

Many folks at GD also don't like to be reminded that the world is flat. ieoeja Feb 2014 #161

Bullshit. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #164

I can't expect to reason with the guy with the gun in his screen name but... CreekDog Feb 2014 #166

Synthetic charges of racism are a creature of your own id. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #171

This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Feb 2014 #174

I think it's actually rather the opposite. LAGC Feb 2014 #111

I don't mean to blow your mind. Skip Intro Feb 2014 #118

yeah, we know you "like the place" Skittles Feb 2014 #135

Why? Skip Intro Feb 2014 #158

Well not only the lives of gang bangers, but they've written off the victims of the gang bangers CreekDog Feb 2014 #167

Thank you. Jamastiene Feb 2014 #175

Just for the record, gang violence is not the main cause of gun homicide. DanTex Feb 2014 #179

WTF?!? According to 2011 FBI stats, one of the lowest causes of gun homicides is "gang related". ieoeja Feb 2014 #160

Bullshit. See post 164. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #165

that's funny, i didn't see you call Skinner's post "bullshit" CreekDog Feb 2014 #169

Skinner's post wasn't bullshit. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #172

neither was the one you did call "bullshit" CreekDog Feb 2014 #173

I wonder how many of those young people were getting blown up/killed in war valerief Feb 2014 #8

Young people aren't buying cars like they used to JimDandy Feb 2014 #13

Have any facts to back that up? Agschmid Feb 2014 #18

The fact that they're buying fewer cars is proof seattledo Feb 2014 #44

Why Don't Young Americans Buy Cars? - The Atlantic NickB79 Feb 2014 #46

Thanks. Agschmid Feb 2014 #53

You see this change quite vividly in the motorcycle marketplace. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #65

THey also are driving "less" than previous generations etherealtruth Feb 2014 #54

That graphic Crepuscular Feb 2014 #16

It would be more accurate to say rrneck Feb 2014 #23

Firearm or Vehicle Pedoviejo2 Feb 2014 #24

How much of this is related to gang violence, drug cartels and other criminal organizations? LittleBlue Feb 2014 #25

Very little. According to FBI 2011 report, "gang related" is one of the fewest causes of homicides. ieoeja Feb 2014 #162

The price we are forced to pay to keep gun fanciers happy. Hoyt Feb 2014 #27

Yep. What's a few dead kids Demobrat Feb 2014 #163

Why the huge drop sarisataka Feb 2014 #28

Just a guess Crepuscular Feb 2014 #31

Airbags and better trauma medicine. nt laundry_queen Feb 2014 #49

Yes to both of those. nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #90

Because things like regulations work. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #33

Because of accidents with automobiles. blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #38

What regulations were enacted at the beginning of that sharp decline? Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #63

Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #87

This message was self-deleted by its author Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #99

Stop with the gratuitous insults, OK? nt Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #105

It's a useful heads-up, IMO. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #211

The engineers are making it harder to die in car accidents. ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #56

The youth suicide rate is stubbornly constant hack89 Feb 2014 #30

Comparing true accidents with deliberate acts (ie suicide and crime) is disingenuous. nt hack89 Feb 2014 #34

The talking point came in at 11:33... IveWornAHundredPants Feb 2014 #71

You do have a point. Rex Feb 2014 #94

No, it misses the point. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #113

Shouldn't that be 'successful suicide'? AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #125

Suicide should be left out of the comparison seveneyes Feb 2014 #47

...and had spread to the lower echelons by 1:38. IveWornAHundredPants Feb 2014 #74

And still unrefuted the next day. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #106

Suicide absolutely should be counted. Guns increase suicide 5 times. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #112

Yet Japan's suicide rate is MUCH higher than ours. LAGC Feb 2014 #115

It is well established that guns increase the risk of suicide. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #116

It also has a lot to do with how suicides are counted in Japan. oneshooter Feb 2014 #117

Really? AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #132

That is why the murder rate in Japan is so low, everybody suicides. n/t oneshooter Feb 2014 #153

Oh, we're not entirely free from that sort of thing. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #128

There is already a very successful model to follow: Australia. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #141

That could work. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #142

We don't need to change the Constitution, we just need to read it correctly. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #146

That's the logic the right wing uses to stack the courts to attack Roe vs. Wade. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #148

It is a very viable tactic. It has worked for the GOP. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #149

Sure, I agree the right is not unlimited. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #150

An Australian-style buy-back program would avoid all those issues and be extremely successful. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #154

I don't know, that is a strange sort of behavior. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #155

The GOP is like that in EVERY state. nt SunSeeker Feb 2014 #156

But ineffective in most states. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #157

I WISH. 29 of our 50 states have GOP governors. That's a majority. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #159

Suicide absolutely should be included. ANY analysis of guns that ignores suicides is pointless Recursion Feb 2014 #119

We are talking about causes of death alarimer Feb 2014 #214

Well then, I guess old age has them all beat seveneyes Feb 2014 #215

Did you know that unintentional injuries are the leading cause of death for young people? Rex Feb 2014 #95

Obviously, teens can't afford the gas Demeter Feb 2014 #107

It's a republican dream. Turbineguy Feb 2014 #110

There is a very interesting correlation in this thread concerning numbers. Ikonoklast Feb 2014 #121

Thank you Ralph Nader. joshcryer Feb 2014 #126

I'd like to see deaths related alcohol overlaid on this. NT Adrahil Feb 2014 #136

1/3 of drunk driving deaths are teens KurtNYC Feb 2014 #139

Pretty good estimate. Here's more... Adrahil Feb 2014 #140

straw man father founding Feb 2014 #143

Gun deaths are falling; it appears to me that both are falling, so it's good news all around. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #170

But whatever you do, don't say the words "suicide" or "men". lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #184

confiscate all guns and melt them down. PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #192

Cars have gotten a lot safer in 14 years; guns, not so much. alarimer Feb 2014 #213