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rrneck

(17,671 posts)
14. I dunno. I never tried.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 07:29 PM
Feb 2014

Lets see. Let's start with some sort of a definition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objectification
According to the philosopher Martha Nussbaum, a person is objectified if they are treated:[1]

as a tool for another's purposes (instrumentality);
as if lacking in agency or self-determination (denial of autonomy, inertness);
as if owned by another (ownership);
as if interchangeable (fungibility);
as if permissible to damage or destroy (violability);
as if there is no need for concern for their feelings and experiences (denial of subjectivity).


How's that? Work for you?

Offhand, I see three that are necessary to a modern society, and actually are necessary to every society since at least the advent of agriculture. Insturmentality, denial of autonomy, fungibility and subjectivity would describe almost any employee and certainly any soldier. You see, even though we are people, we have responsibilities to others that transcend how we may feel about what we have to do to make a living or survive. Although it is certainly wrong to dehumanize people, we as responsible citizens have to produce and the product of our efforts are subject to objectifying evaluation. In other words, you have to show up to work whether you like it or not and your boss, or commanding officer, has the right to evaluate your output without considering your feelings on the matter. And if you don't like the boss scenario, replace him with mother nature or physics. Sometimes you have to objectify yourself.

But are we really talking about objectifying people here? The current spate of gender conflict started with images of girls in bikinis. So we aren't really talking about objectifying people but images, which are objects themselves. The entire controversy is an exercise in literalism. The images are not people. They are fiction, and should be interpreted as such.
I don't think the roots mzteris Feb 2014 #1
I agree with you, but with capitalism, it's more prevalent because there's plenty of $$$$ Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #6
Which is the reason I said "Mass objectification"......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #38
Yes. And I do agree it is turned into a horrific problem by capitalism. nt Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #43
My point. mzteris Feb 2014 #45
Yes. nt Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #46
Exactly. Certain people (women, slaves, etc.) were considered PROPERTY. nt redqueen Feb 2014 #21
You don't need to blame capitalism for the mingling of sex and commerce. Rex Feb 2014 #2
However, for it to become a mass commercial industry... Scootaloo Feb 2014 #4
True, good point. Rex Feb 2014 #5
Absolutely BainsBane Feb 2014 #3
Good post, and I agree that objectification is part and parcel of unrestrained capitalism... Sarah Ibarruri Feb 2014 #7
thanks for injecting some sense into the clusterfuck. El_Johns Feb 2014 #8
Objectification is not, in itself, a bad thing. rrneck Feb 2014 #9
Objectification means treating a human as an object. El_Johns Feb 2014 #11
Yes. And we all do it for any number of reasons. rrneck Feb 2014 #12
Can you give an example of objectification that is good because it's done for the proper reasons? El_Johns Feb 2014 #13
I dunno. I never tried. rrneck Feb 2014 #14
Not sure what you're saying. Is it that objectification is OK if it's done to workers and soldiers? El_Johns Feb 2014 #15
No. rrneck Feb 2014 #18
In what way is it (being a thing) part of being human? El_Johns Feb 2014 #19
Well, rrneck Feb 2014 #20
Your body is your body, part of "you", who is a human. I think we're talking past each other. El_Johns Feb 2014 #22
I think it's because rrneck Feb 2014 #23
Objectification means dehumanization: to make a human a thing. I don't know how you're using it, El_Johns Feb 2014 #24
Doesn't look like it. rrneck Feb 2014 #25
I'm Batman The Straight Story Feb 2014 #27
Who is the living being batman objectifies? Does batman stand in for all men? El_Johns Feb 2014 #29
SI did a bit on batman The Straight Story Feb 2014 #30
right. El_Johns Feb 2014 #31
It all boils down to the individual and their abilities The Straight Story Feb 2014 #32
"the individual and their abilities". Ja, richtig. El_Johns Feb 2014 #33
The OP is about commodity fetishism and the theory of alienation. joshcryer Feb 2014 #41
You're way ahead of me. rrneck Feb 2014 #44
It's all true, of course, but applied wrong. Think of "sonder." joshcryer Feb 2014 #47
+1 and "Social progress may be measured precisely by the social position of women." Karl Marx Zorra Feb 2014 #10
You ALWAYS get a star Comrada Fox......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #35
Would you say it's a Mass Effect? Warren DeMontague Feb 2014 #16
Capitalism and patriarchy TBF Feb 2014 #17
+1. Workers' Power had a women's pamphlet...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #36
I have Engel's book - TBF Feb 2014 #48
Agreed. And Engels is actually a LITTLE easier than even Lenin......... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #53
Consumerism is not capitalist. joshcryer Feb 2014 #26
Agreed, though I want to emphasize that DU is also a business. Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #28
When you run a business there's a cost benefit anaylsis. joshcryer Feb 2014 #39
Big words doesn't make you educated or sensible! whistler162 Feb 2014 #34
And neither do small words...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #37
Exactly! Thank you! Well said! scarletwoman Feb 2014 #40
Capitalism. Interesting. This in regards (further) on the objectification of women (the SI issue) flvegan Feb 2014 #42
If you pay someone you TBF Feb 2014 #49
Not correct. stevenleser Feb 2014 #50
A reasonable analysis from a Marxist position.... Adrahil Feb 2014 #51
Marxists did a pretty good job of objectifying 6 million Ukranians to death Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #52
Stalinists (which include Maoists, as Mao took the party organization model from Stalin)...... socialist_n_TN Feb 2014 #54
Marxists are funny. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #55
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