General Discussion

Starry Messenger

(32,379 posts)

167. What a hot mess.

Mon Feb 24, 2014, 01:43 AM

Feb 2014

This country was founded on exploitation, which found its perfect expression in the racist oppression of black chattel slavery. Lumping poor whites and poor blacks into the same category ignores the history of which group was torn from their culture and has had to play catch up on a never-even playing field.

Racism in the US is a function of our classism, and in every metric that matters, the working class of the US is most oppressed among the African-Americans.

Are there poor whites? Yes, it's a real problem. But real unity will take place when poor whites ally with poor blacks to make social change. At the moment, there is still a substantial subset of poor whites who feel that their ticket to the ruling class is arriving any day.

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Why I don't like the term "white privilege" [View all] shaayecanaan Feb 2014 OP

I will just say ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #1

I'm not sure I follow (nt) shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #2

Very diplomatic. Warpy Feb 2014 #3

Great post. ZombieHorde Feb 2014 #6

The police hardly ever do random breath tests in Chinese suburbs... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #10

i would say it's more due to numbers of drunk driving related traffic accidents in the area JI7 Feb 2014 #12

Bingo... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #18

bad analogy , if a chinese person was in an area they were testing for drunk drivers JI7 Feb 2014 #22

no, because they assume white people have more money Gormy Cuss Feb 2014 #128

This would be Chinese priviledge: A police officer witnesses driving that is consistent with okaawhatever Feb 2014 #19

Arab privilege? shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #24

you don't seem to understand the concept and are arguing republican talking points JI7 Feb 2014 #25

I don't think that you ever understood the concept... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #91

dlc has nothing to do with white privilege, the history of this country goes back hudreds of years JI7 Feb 2014 #96

The NBA situation wouldn't necessarily be considered tall privilege because height is a factor in okaawhatever Feb 2014 #27

Lone Star Gas wanted employees that were at least six feet tall. Downwinder Feb 2014 #45

*****BINGO!!!***** uponit7771 Feb 2014 #50

Why do you think the Chinese hardly drink? nt okaawhatever Feb 2014 #20

I've known quite a few prodigious Chinese drinkers Warpy Feb 2014 #29

One time... CSStrowbridge Feb 2014 #15

But another time Token Republican Feb 2014 #58

And then you and your friends showered sufrommich Feb 2014 #60

Yup Token Republican Feb 2014 #69

"not being on welfare was completely outside the sufrommich Feb 2014 #72

I think that was their point, that that sort of racism was shocking and not ok. uppityperson Feb 2014 #74

Yes, thank you Token Republican Feb 2014 #78

The white foster kid would have been handed the same set of options Gormy Cuss Feb 2014 #129

What proportion of the US ruling class originally made their family fortunes directly or indirectly El_Johns Feb 2014 #104

Guess you were lucky. Separation Feb 2014 #171

I always love the part about African governments being corrupt malaise Feb 2014 #31

Don't forget who they learned it from malaise! JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #36

And neo-colonialism is worse malaise Feb 2014 #38

I think you know JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #43

You know the really sad truth is that there are lots of decent human beings in many of the malaise Feb 2014 #49

Thank you for this post. nt redqueen Feb 2014 #63

Subtle. n/t defacto7 Feb 2014 #8

I think the poorest county in the US is in South Dakota progressoid Feb 2014 #4

4 of the 5 poorest are in SD Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #46

The US government considers you white. Heidi Feb 2014 #5

Very charitable of them (nt) shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #7

I see what you did there..... VanillaRhapsody Feb 2014 #9

Well it's true JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #37

It does not matter how our Government defines white or any other race as wocaonimabi Feb 2014 #35

Very insightful Thank you for putting this together. gtar100 Feb 2014 #11

More so than that... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #16

I appreciate your thorough academic approach. defacto7 Feb 2014 #13

"We're different" shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #21

Have you spent time JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #39

Thank you for sharing your experience and family history with us. It's very moving. myrna minx Feb 2014 #52

I swear I haven't been able to find it in the archives yet, but... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #163

I'd love to see that JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #172

Found it...Not quite the same as I remembered it Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #173

It's the way of thinking JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #174

You know, I remember that post. M0rpheus Feb 2014 #175

You seem to think I disagree with your statement defacto7 Feb 2014 #122

Excellent post. Racism is indeed different in different cultures ... kwassa Feb 2014 #157

There is NOTHING "academic" about the OP's analysis... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #162

Was I too subtle? defacto7 Feb 2014 #164

You have no idea what you are talking about trublu992 Feb 2014 #14

Those who have the money control the institutions (nt) shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #17

so indian americans are controlling the institutions ? JI7 Feb 2014 #30

the ruling class controls the institutions (nt) shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #32

in your op you mentioned that indian americans make the most money JI7 Feb 2014 #33

I was not asserting that the ruling class consists entirely shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #79

what is absurd is you claiming no racism and then in the thread excusing racism JI7 Feb 2014 #97

I would note hfojvt Feb 2014 #62

exactly, WHY do certain groups tendto have more than others, it ignores this question JI7 Feb 2014 #23

Exactly! The Indian American reasoning is job and credit extended to them uponit7771 Feb 2014 #51

Climate, largely... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #83

Oh boy. geardaddy Feb 2014 #201

Thank you. I said pretty much the same thing down thread. Number23 Feb 2014 #93

your arguments are pretty much "how can there be global warming, it's cold and snowing" JI7 Feb 2014 #26

As someone who grew up in America... BaronChocula Feb 2014 #28

People think Blacks are sneaky... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #81

You say that your family made its vast fortune in the gem trade in Africa. Out of curiosity, Tanuki Feb 2014 #34

All fair questions JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #42

Very fair question for 'something of a Marxist' wealthy from trading stones in Africa Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #48

+1 redqueen Feb 2014 #65

Exactly, could you even imagine a marxist growing up in a wealthy family. hughee99 Feb 2014 #73

would a marxist excuse racism and use "they have more money" as justification for discrimination ? JI7 Feb 2014 #98

Would a ruling class flunky wrongly accuse people of racism? shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #101

you have excused it and made lame comparisons to tall basketball players, chinese who don't drink JI7 Feb 2014 #102

To be honest, I probably would walk the tall comment back if I could... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #110

*the term* "white privilege" doesn't destroy class consciousness, but *white privilege* does fishwax Feb 2014 #40

It didnt matter... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #82

Of course it mattered. African Americans were systematically excluded from much of labor's gains fishwax Feb 2014 #135

You don't like the term "White Privilege" WestIndianArchie Feb 2014 #41

Maybe you should start reading this shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #100

Just because you do not like the term does not mean it does not exist. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #44

Of course white privilege exists and every attempt sufrommich Feb 2014 #47

Dishonest title, it is not that you dislike the term, it is that you deny the thing exists. Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #53

White privilege is actually a very accurate description of the situation it describes. Squinch Feb 2014 #54

OK so let's see gollygee Feb 2014 #55

I think that's it in a nutshell. sufrommich Feb 2014 #56

+1 redqueen Feb 2014 #67

Complete bullshit... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #86

I actually have LESS privilege than whites as a well off black man. I STILL have to answer to the... uponit7771 Feb 2014 #185

Spot on. geardaddy Feb 2014 #202

There's a problem with your post... 1awake Feb 2014 #57

Apparently I am a racist shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #99

Here's the best personal example I can think of to sum up "white privilege". Spider Jerusalem Feb 2014 #59

It's ALWAYS been about class warfare. Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #61

Largely agree - TBF Feb 2014 #66

I agree that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #68

I can't argue with that - TBF Feb 2014 #71

Great post Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #64

Using misguided terms like "white privilege" is foolish. gulliver Feb 2014 #70

"White privilege" is not a "sneaky" term. It quite openly states what it is saying. Squinch Feb 2014 #77

In a word Boom Sound 416 Feb 2014 #149

I think a lot of people don't get the Marxism. kjones Feb 2014 #75

Thank you shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #80

Well, that's probably a little much. kjones Feb 2014 #85

"Marxism is all about the class, material conditions and production" Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #166

Maybe it's not stated right. kjones Feb 2014 #168

"Writings on the U.S. Civil War" Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #170

None of them really seem to discuss racism itself. kjones Feb 2014 #176

"Labor in the white skin can never free itself as long as labor in the black skin is branded.” Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #191

I experience White Privilege because I look white. Iggo Feb 2014 #76

Maybe this guy says it better shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #84

Thanks for that. westerebus Feb 2014 #90

Of course there's white privilege steve2470 Feb 2014 #87

I am not denying that racism exists... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #88

Caucasians founded the USA steve2470 Feb 2014 #89

LOL- the circular reasoning bit in order to deny reality. you have out the cart - "material bettyellen Feb 2014 #94

"Barack Obama, for example, did not come from the same social class as "traditional" African America Number23 Feb 2014 #92

I'm not sure why you posted this response, to be honest... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #95

In the history of America when talking about white privilege, it's race not class. bravenak Feb 2014 #103

and it's often non wealthy whites who support these things JI7 Feb 2014 #105

It's wealthy whites who are pushing, demagoging and enacting them. El_Johns Feb 2014 #107

yes, like koch brothers, but they get support from whites including many who aren't wealthy JI7 Feb 2014 #108

They do, from some, but poorer people are more liable to 1) vote less and 2) vote democratic than El_Johns Feb 2014 #112

the top would then include middle class people who often vote for 1 percent over 99 JI7 Feb 2014 #114

Yes. that's my point. The political base for racist dogwhistles is not "white trash," it's the El_Johns Feb 2014 #117

And poor whites that support them and vote in those candidates to office who will do things bravenak Feb 2014 #111

Not the case. El_Johns Feb 2014 #116

Of course they do. bravenak Feb 2014 #109

Yes, those damn Republicans and their appeal to class struggle shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #137

they appeal to their racism , this is why it was after civil rights that many turned against social JI7 Feb 2014 #138

That's my girl... Number23 Feb 2014 #115

It's the same damn rec list everytime! bravenak Feb 2014 #121

I'm just going to laugh, and move on. Me too. I find myself doing that more and more these days Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #124

I'm over it. bravenak Feb 2014 #133

+10000 JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #179

So in other words... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #118

Yep. bravenak Feb 2014 #119

You do realise shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #120

Why should the black woman give up her bently for social change? bravenak Feb 2014 #123

Short answer: because she has far more money than she could ever possibly need... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #130

How much money do I make? bravenak Feb 2014 #132

Us wealthy non-whites call that the "passenger mentality"... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #140

you are posting a lot of racist shit JI7 Feb 2014 #142

Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #145

hmmmm.... El_Johns Feb 2014 #148

Slave narratives are a set of writings from the WPA. bravenak Feb 2014 #152

Thank you JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #180

you do realize upper income blacks are regularly stopped by police and seen as suspicious at stores JI7 Feb 2014 #125

(a) what an interesting example and (b) you seem completely unaware of spooky3 Feb 2014 #155

lol You're "not sure" why I posted a response saying I "wasn't sure" why you posted this nonsensical Number23 Feb 2014 #106

+1 bravenak Feb 2014 #113

+1000 NOLALady Feb 2014 #134

You noticed the OP suddenly has nothing to say, huh? Number23 Feb 2014 #136

THIS!!! And thank you. I cannot believe this got 27 recs. Sounds like Limbaugh or O Keefe Lite. bettyellen Feb 2014 #141

it is, i wonder if people actually read it , i guess people just saw him claim to be a marxist JI7 Feb 2014 #143

I think it'ss knee jerk agreement with a dislike of the term- they'd be embarrassed if they read on bettyellen Feb 2014 #151

I made largely the same post about a week ago... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #144

people have posted actual facts and numbers that there is racism and you want to deny it JI7 Feb 2014 #147

That post has nothing to do with mine. And certainly nothing to do with your naive Number23 Feb 2014 #153

I dropped the rope on this thread yesterday JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #178

Thanks Number23 Feb 2014 #186

Two days later JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #199

Oh good grief. Number23 Feb 2014 #204

+1, and pls see my post #155 spooky3 Feb 2014 #156

Awesome response. geardaddy Feb 2014 #203

a very interesting perspective. But I do think the African-American experience is somewhat different Douglas Carpenter Feb 2014 #126

That may be true. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #160

Thank you for such an in depth post about Pretzel_Warrior Feb 2014 #127

As you can see from the responses ... Bok_Tukalo Feb 2014 #131

Yeah... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #150

Wow. Absolutely astonishing how proudly clueless you are Number23 Feb 2014 #154

+1000 JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #181

You just proved my point. bravenak Feb 2014 #184

Good post Harmony Blue Feb 2014 #139

I think a lot of bourgeois liberals misunderstand that term... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #146

Not so sure about "elitism", to be honest. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #159

A very interesting perspective here. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #158

Two comments ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #187

Two responses. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #188

"Used to believe" ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #189

..... AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #190

So ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #192

Not all racism is systemic, though. AverageJoe90 Feb 2014 #194

There is no such animal as "Interpersonal racism" ... 1StrongBlackMan Feb 2014 #195

A few decent points, but you're kind of all over the place... Blue_Tires Feb 2014 #161

Be careful Blue JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #169

Confused about white privilege? Chakab Feb 2014 #165

What a hot mess. Starry Messenger Feb 2014 #167

The OP's last paragraph doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Obama didn't grow up with his father catbyte Feb 2014 #177

Thank you thank you thank you JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #182

Thank you, JAG. My mom lived through Jim Crow laws in northern Michigan when she was catbyte Feb 2014 #183

i'm having a hard time respecting this post Quayblue Feb 2014 #193

Your insight into the racial politics of America is highly flawed. kwassa Feb 2014 #196

Access to highly paid JustAnotherGen Feb 2014 #197

I'd be interested to hear you expand on the "very different reasons" whites and blacks are poor. nt Romulox Feb 2014 #200

I think there is a possible difference here between the USA and other countries LeftishBrit Feb 2014 #198