Misogyny? Well, DUH!

[Threedifferentones]

75. I agree with you marions ghost but I think you have left out half the story.

Women also need to support men who go against the grain of gender norms.

Your average woman is not really a feminist by the standards of DU. Most of them never really reflect that what they are attracted to is a stereotypically masculine sort of male:

1 He is to be tall and, if not muscular, at least lean.

2 He is to be in a "high-status" occupation and/or financially well off.

3 He should use those resources to cover all expenses on any dates or other avenues of courtship.

4 He should be assertive almost to the point of aggression, making most of the decisions and shouldering most of the load when life gets heavy.

Correspondingly, most women only begin romantic relationships by being asked out, they would hardly dream of choosing their own date. They are thus comfortable with being the objects of male pursuit, and uncomfortable playing a more active role. In other words, many women, whether they know it or not, want a man's man, they embrace at the very least the forms of sexism which have been referred to as "benevolent."

I too believe that this is mostly the result of our culture, that patriarchy is a social construct which is so old as to SEEM natural and inevitable, when in fact it is a choice people make.

But, sometimes on DU I am puzzled as to why some posters feel that growing up under patriarchy excuses the actions of these women who embrace gender norms, but not the men.

When I observe a man treating his mate as second class, I often wonder:

1How can he treat another human that way?
and
2Why doesn't she fight back against this oppression?

Over and over I am struck by the fact that these two questions have the same answer. Both the man and the woman grew up in a patriarchal system. They are acting out the roles they are familiar with, they are imitating the behavior they observed as children.

Children learn about sex and gender by observing adults. In many ways our gender roles give more power and privilege to men, but that does not mean the current generation of men is responsible for them. This generation of boys and girls will learn by watching the last generation of fathers and mothers, who in turn imitated a lot of what their parents' generation did, and so on back before written history.

And this brings up what struck me most about your post. For those of us who are sick of these rigid gender roles, the only way forward is to be very open about the fact that we are different and very supportive of other people who feel the same. It is imperative that kids today who do not feel comfortable living up to a patriarchal standard see that there are many adults who feel the same way. Otherwise they will probably always feel that there is something wrong with them for not fitting in with society, instead of realizing there is something wrong with society for not accepting them.

That is why these flame wars on DU sadden me greatly. The vast majority of posters agree that we should accept anyone who is open minded and kind as a good person, and that we should evaluate people as unique individuals instead of ranking them in comparison with an ideal man or woman. Unfortunately though in most threads about gender this broad piece of common ground is overlooked in favor of an endless series of relatively minor differences.

Differences like whether a swimsuit cover can be accurately described as porn, or whether a picture of it should be allowed in GD, the lounge, smaller groups, or not at all...sigh.