General Discussion

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)

162. Theres a world of difference between Obamacare and the Swiss system

Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:49 PM

Feb 2014

I actually had high hopes that ACA would come to resemble the Swiss system. The Swiss system is far simpler than Obamacare, and mandates a straightforward weight-for-age system requiring Insurers to offer the same coverage and pricing to everyone of equal age. It gives much greater power to government to set prices than Obamacare.

Bear in mind that the Swiss/German system is still not as good as pure single payer in reducing costs. German/Swiss/French healthcare costs are about 15% higher than UK costs. The point is that single payer gives the government monopsony power. A monopsony means a system in which there is only one buyer. Typically, this gives that buyer far greater power in setting prices than a system in which there are multiple buyers.

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Why do the poor and uninsured refuse to sign up for Obamacare? [View all] Redfairen Feb 2014 OP

There are many people that even $10/mo extra means something else has to give. hobbit709 Feb 2014 #1

10 dollar is 2-3 gallons of milk. i think alot of people think that way leftyohiolib Feb 2014 #55

Or 2-3 gallons of gas to drive to work... Wounded Bear Feb 2014 #137

There don't seem to be many on DU who understand what having *no* money is like Fumesucker Feb 2014 #2

i saw posts suggesting poor folks get a second job. oy. KG Feb 2014 #3

Or they go on a diet of beans for a year. Empathy abound here. nt adirondacker Feb 2014 #79

I agree it is lack of understanding. There is a good willl wish but no reality check lunasun Feb 2014 #9

Definitely agree shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #46

Many (myself included) view insurance as a scam PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #60

Insurance isn't a scam. It's gambling. Xithras Feb 2014 #123

Which is why insurance is the wrong model for healthcare dreamnightwind Feb 2014 #198

+1 TexasTowelie Feb 2014 #201

Well said, Famesucker. I have found that those who have never done without just live in a reality DesertDiamond Feb 2014 #61

I see this attitude over and over here. ladyVet Feb 2014 #209

Do you remember those old DU polls about members' incomes QC Feb 2014 #109

Yes. Yes. Yo_Mama Feb 2014 #144

+1 brazilion Myrina Feb 2014 #126

+1 liberal_at_heart Feb 2014 #136

+++ Hardly a day goes by without some Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #147

And many others who have convinced themselves that ACA is actually health care Doctor_J Feb 2014 #159

I have noticed that 30cal Feb 2014 #195

Welcome to DU! Fumesucker Feb 2014 #203

K&R.... daleanime Feb 2014 #4

You are citing Megan McArdle? Shivering Jemmy Feb 2014 #5

Even our political enemies can speak the obvious truth. Redfairen Feb 2014 #15

There is no "truth" in the OP, but thanks ProSense Feb 2014 #146

It's also a choice between the abstract and the concrete. Turbineguy Feb 2014 #6

I can't figure out what else I can cut to pay the premium. antiquie Feb 2014 #69

I suspect Turbineguy Feb 2014 #139

What did they say when you called?? cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #141

They might be like me................ mrmpa Feb 2014 #7

This^^^ nt Mnemosyne Feb 2014 #35

That's our situation as well independentpiney Feb 2014 #53

+1000. I'm taking my kid to the doctor today. Pretty sure she has atypical pneumonia. winter is coming Feb 2014 #103

This is the reallity for many in red states. CottonBear Feb 2014 #129

I was just on the gov. site DocMac Feb 2014 #131

Tom Corbett is about to to be unemployed, hopefully PA Medicaid expansion is soon to follow... Hippo_Tron Feb 2014 #165

yep. so i guess we get fined for being poor. and get work cut below 30hrs/wk TheFrenchRazor Feb 2014 #187

I couldn't afford it , I wanted to 30cal Feb 2014 #197

I don't qualify for ACA. ladyVet Feb 2014 #210

If your living on the street and homeless newfie11 Feb 2014 #8

If you are living on the streets and homeless you can go to your local DPSS and sign up. bravenak Feb 2014 #128

Glad to know it's easier than I thought for them newfie11 Feb 2014 #207

Why the Hell not just give them care if we want to give them care? bemildred Feb 2014 #10

Because that would cut out the insurance companies nt MannyGoldstein Feb 2014 #22

Exactly, The ACA is a for profit Insurance racket Heather MC Feb 2014 #26

"Our country only sees us as commodities" zeemike Feb 2014 #41

...and disposed of after being used! nt TexasTowelie Feb 2014 #202

We don't want to give them care. We want to sell them insurance. winter is coming Feb 2014 #110

Money? Just a wild guess. merrily Feb 2014 #11

why do people have to sign up by March? santroy79 Feb 2014 #12

The idea is that uninsured people have been costing society money by merrily Feb 2014 #13

"Free" care in the ER? Where do you live? raven mad Feb 2014 #32

I am currently being sued by the ER doc who treated my daughter (the 500 dollar bill became Ed Suspicious Feb 2014 #72

Jesus... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #80

They did make her drink a charcoal slurry of some sort, but yeah, charcoal, water and observation. Ed Suspicious Feb 2014 #89

If neeed in future - 840high Feb 2014 #124

And how my in network hospital is staffed by out of network Doctors is beyond my comprehension. Ed Suspicious Feb 2014 #91

Where were you during the 2008 Presidential campaign, when merrily Feb 2014 #199

then you could wait until you're sick to sign up alc Feb 2014 #66

Because insurance only works when the healthy are paying. jeff47 Feb 2014 #111

The ACA is a first step, when will we start seeing some action on the next step? nm rhett o rick Feb 2014 #171

States can go single-payer or public option in 2018. (nt) jeff47 Feb 2014 #176

Yes but we can guess how well that will go over. What is the next step nationally? rhett o rick Feb 2014 #191

To advance it in blue states. jeff47 Feb 2014 #194

By March 15th. DocMac Feb 2014 #133

There are those that can't afford even the smallest premium and those that want it to fail Thor_MN Feb 2014 #14

Anyone applying for Food Stamps demwing Feb 2014 #16

That's how it is done in Oregon, where our website does not work at all! Bluenorthwest Feb 2014 #42

I agree it's what we need to continue to push for davidpdx Feb 2014 #17

Ever been down to your last dime? liberal N proud Feb 2014 #18

Some may not like being tracked Uben Feb 2014 #19

single payer is no cure quaker bill Feb 2014 #20

it will lower costs a shitload more than that shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #47

+1 newfie11 Feb 2014 #62

Healthcare costs in mandatory insurance systems are about the same as in single-payer systems. bornskeptic Feb 2014 #127

Theres a world of difference between Obamacare and the Swiss system shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #162

Primary care is non-profit only in these systems grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #189

OK then quaker bill Feb 2014 #170

But its funded from general tax revenues shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #196

There is no free lunch quaker bill Feb 2014 #205

remember shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #206

OK then, tell us the real cure. Redfairen Feb 2014 #56

A different social contract entirely quaker bill Feb 2014 #173

Paying for it via taxes lets you use graduated taxes. jeff47 Feb 2014 #113

The subsidy does more quaker bill Feb 2014 #179

It's the same whether you call it a subsidy or not jeff47 Feb 2014 #181

exactly, so why do they not sign up? quaker bill Feb 2014 #214

There's another difference jeff47 Feb 2014 #215

Wait, you mean "single payer" won't be magically free for everyone?? lol cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #142

If you connect it to a large increase in minimum wage quaker bill Feb 2014 #169

o.....m.....g Doctor_J Feb 2014 #143

Simply stunning, isn't it? n/t Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #148

It is not the cure for having too little money quaker bill Feb 2014 #168

You could boost that to 97%, which is what Medicare operates at Doctor_J Feb 2014 #175

But single payer does not fix thar quaker bill Feb 2014 #182

Oh, the Party Faithful don't want to hear that here. Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #21

+1000 hobbit709 Feb 2014 #24

This^ antiquie Feb 2014 #96

Seriously. ladyVet Feb 2014 #211

Dunno lancer78 Feb 2014 #212

Right. Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #213

"What if you just don't have that money?" raven mad Feb 2014 #23

Answer: Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #27

Exactly. It's a no-win situation. raven mad Feb 2014 #29

This is not true for all of us. antiquie Feb 2014 #76

Oh, jesus! Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #90

Oh gosh, I've over-reacted, sorry. antiquie Feb 2014 #99

I re-read what I wrote Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #102

They live in a state that refused to expand Medicaid? retread Feb 2014 #25

Even in states where medicaid was expanded Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #28

Not true. ProSense Feb 2014 #63

Uh-oh. The PUMAs on this board don't want to hear that. BlueCaliDem Feb 2014 #83

It's hate. When RW distortion (How to kill Obamacare) ProSense Feb 2014 #84

Yeah, I'm a right-winger Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #94

I totally agree. It's amazing how much hate the word "Obama" can conjure BlueCaliDem Feb 2014 #114

Who's a PUMA? Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #87

No. The acronym stands for "Party Unity My Ass". BlueCaliDem Feb 2014 #115

Yes, I know what it stands for Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #118

Yeah. That's because I just explained it to you. BlueCaliDem Feb 2014 #174

The "transcendence" is purely in the mind Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #185

Here's an idea - if you want party unity, try acting like Dems Doctor_J Feb 2014 #180

Which has NOTHING to do with what I posted. Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #92

It has everything to do with what you "posted" ProSense Feb 2014 #93

No, actually, I don't. Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #95

If you've never understood blind loyalty I recommend you read "The Authoritarians." rhett o rick Feb 2014 #217

PS, FUD and wingers have been using the word "many" to obfuscate your point.. many could mean uponit7771 Feb 2014 #154

+1 uponit7771 Feb 2014 #152

Winger position - no concrete evidence on "many" just conjecture uponit7771 Feb 2014 #151

***************SCREW FACTS!!!!!!!*************** uponit7771 Feb 2014 #150

Well - subtract the roughly 50% of the poor Ms. Toad Feb 2014 #30

yep. TheFrenchRazor Feb 2014 #188

The tax penalty wasn't created to incent people who don't pay taxes. JoePhilly Feb 2014 #31

time and money magical thyme Feb 2014 #33

Why do the poor and uninsured refuse to sign up for Obamacare? Snarkoleptic Feb 2014 #34

maybe they can't put down their moonshine jugs shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #49

Poor people generally don't have cable. svpadgham Feb 2014 #82

So, poor people aren't signing up Le Taz Hot Feb 2014 #106

I know 2 types of people who haven't signed up. hollowdweller Feb 2014 #36

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2014 #37

uh... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #64

"change the law so doctors and hospitals can refuse service to anybody who doesn't have insurance" winter is coming Feb 2014 #98

The first group gets covered by the escalating fine. jeff47 Feb 2014 #117

I copied and printed this out: "Being poor is knowing exactly how much everything costs." a kennedy Feb 2014 #38

Enrollment penalties are not harsh enough. karadax Feb 2014 #39

pfft Coyote_Bandit Feb 2014 #57

I don't understand how a state can be so stupid as to.... Walk away Feb 2014 #107

ACA is federal law with Coyote_Bandit Feb 2014 #192

This is a Glenn Reynolds hit piece actually entitled How Americans can kill ObamaCare azurnoir Feb 2014 #40

You're right. My whole point is that our enemies also speak the truth. Redfairen Feb 2014 #51

I agree about single payer azurnoir Feb 2014 #70

The ACA is how we get to single payer. jeff47 Feb 2014 #119

I tried to sign up maindawg Feb 2014 #43

At where I live a big reason the poor don't sign up is doc03 Feb 2014 #44

I live in Western Pa gelsdorf Feb 2014 #75

The guy is a Republican and accepts UE from the govment, imagine that. n/t doc03 Feb 2014 #157

The mayor of the nearest big city catrose Feb 2014 #45

On that deductible jeff47 Feb 2014 #120

Thanks. I'll check into that. eom catrose Feb 2014 #218

Now, I've seen it all. ProSense Feb 2014 #48

I'm in the process of signing up and here's my experience so far... 1awake Feb 2014 #50

Really? OKNancy Feb 2014 #100

My family is not small lol 1awake Feb 2014 #104

Ironically, the ACA is helping single payer in Vermont... shaayecanaan Feb 2014 #52

That's actually the long-term plan. jeff47 Feb 2014 #121

People with "no money" qualify for Medicaid treestar Feb 2014 #54

Haha, you're funny. Fully half of all states refuse to expand Medicaid. Redfairen Feb 2014 #67

Also, some states, like mine, require that you have children to get Medicaid. GoCubsGo Feb 2014 #78

Not true. I speak from experience. GoCubsGo Feb 2014 #86

How about simple inertia? SheilaT Feb 2014 #58

Dental Services Are Coming Back For California's Low-Income Adults ProSense Feb 2014 #59

Why haven't they signed up? ReRe Feb 2014 #65

I worked for a while in a homeless shelter back in the late '90s deutsey Feb 2014 #68

In the "red" states, the message is the problem,mainly from the Healthcare.gov site itself. I live.. dmosh42 Feb 2014 #71

Because although they are poor, and uninsured, they are NOT stupid Demeter Feb 2014 #73

Uninsurance Rate Falls To Five-Year Low As 3.3 Million Enroll In Obamacare ProSense Feb 2014 #74

I have a close relationship with the Free Clinic in our area. NCTraveler Feb 2014 #77

Seeing it in my own family: Suspicion. mainer Feb 2014 #81

Hate radio and Fox "News" are telling them not to. Doctor_J Feb 2014 #85

There is a reality that the media and commentators continue to miss BumRushDaShow Feb 2014 #88

When you are on a tight budget there's just no money for Autumn Feb 2014 #97

same reason they don't vote, and btw fuck Megan McArdle she's a fact-challenged idiot nt geek tragedy Feb 2014 #101

here is wisconsin it is just silly dembotoz Feb 2014 #105

I'm not even "poor" and I'd have a hard time affording it. sir pball Feb 2014 #108

the poor are not signing up because 2pooped2pop Feb 2014 #112

That was one of the questions people asked from the beginning. But try to explain sabrina 1 Feb 2014 #116

Had a bang your head on the wall discussion with a friend of my mother... JCMach1 Feb 2014 #122

Because a 60% copay & $6k deduc is NOT "affordable"? Myrina Feb 2014 #125

Gee, if only someone could have foreseen this kind of thing... Egalitarian Thug Feb 2014 #130

I have been told by some, it is because the fine is cheaper than the insurance. Tuesday Afternoon Feb 2014 #132

I suspect there are many on the cusp with major job insecurity, afraid of committing to the monthly hlthe2b Feb 2014 #134

If, by poor, you mean Medicaid eligible, it's because so many states refused to expand. n/t pnwmom Feb 2014 #135

I asked this same question over a week ago. BKH70041 Feb 2014 #138

Most of those poor would get free health insurance after the credits.... cbdo2007 Feb 2014 #140

What are some of the reasons that people aren't signing up in NM? rusty fender Feb 2014 #145

they probably just don't know they are eligible. Part of ACA signup is to locate underserved librechik Feb 2014 #149

For the most part the poor are eligible for things like Medicaid and Medicare. I for instance cannot jwirr Feb 2014 #153

A large number probably have been turned off by Faux News & the RW onslaught against Obamacare. stopbush Feb 2014 #155

I disagree with the premise of this thread. It is not a "tiny percentage" BlueStreak Feb 2014 #156

I have been assured many times on DU that the "penalty" is toothless and not a serious threat Fumesucker Feb 2014 #172

It is -- in tax year 2014. But it goes up every year. BlueStreak Feb 2014 #186

For many, they would be hard-pressed to use the insurance Jackpine Radical Feb 2014 #158

I can't speak for the rest of the country, bvar22 Feb 2014 #160

Dear Bvar, it isn't FREE Demeter Feb 2014 #161

"Enrollment" in the Medicaid Expansion is FREE, bvar22 Feb 2014 #163

I am dumbfounded to understand why the Admin isnt pushing this. rhett o rick Feb 2014 #178

because Rush tells then not to and they don't/can't think for themselves. Auntie Bush Feb 2014 #164

Just to irritate you... Lost_Count Feb 2014 #166

why did you quote this article dsc Feb 2014 #167

NO $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ democratisphere Feb 2014 #177

We need single payer more than ever tnlefty Feb 2014 #183

I have poor people around me Quayblue Feb 2014 #184

The sign up process is long & convoluted. My GF tried to sign up over a few days and wound up grahamhgreen Feb 2014 #190

poor conservatives Bartleby73 Feb 2014 #200

Lest anyone forget... 2naSalit Feb 2014 #204

Most of the people I meet that qualify for the new Medicaid expansion.. Walk away Feb 2014 #208

The only one of my friends eligible, but not signing up (& his wife) Bonx Feb 2014 #216