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spin

(17,493 posts)
183. The choice is to try to finds a number of different ways to reduce gun violence. ...
Thu Feb 27, 2014, 09:18 PM
Feb 2014

This might include:

1) Universal background checks on the sale of all firearms.

2) Improving our NICS background check system to insure that the names of those who should not be allowed to purchase firearms are updated on a timely basis by the states and that includes the names of those legally adjudged as having significant mental problems.

3) Devoting more funds for the police agencies to combat the straw purchase of firearms and to stop the smuggling of these weapons into the streets of our inner cities to be sold on the black market.

4) Substantially increasing the penalties for anyone involved in the illegal purchase or smuggling of firearms. I would be suggest that such people be charged as an accessory to any crime committed with the firearms they dealt in (although this might prove legally impossible).

5) Legalizing many drugs in order to take much of the profit motive out of the drug trade and consequently reduce the violence that the drug gangs cause in our society. We lost the War on Drugs decades ago and most realistic people understand this. We learned no lessons from the Prohibition era and we seem to lack the will and the intelligence to stop this failed effort as our nation did when it effectively repealed Prohibition by passing the Twenty-first Amendment in 1933.

6) Developing a mental healthcare system that allows people to seek help for mental problems from a mental healthcare professional at an affordable price rather than seek treatment from a GP who will give them what often proves to be a dangerous prescription drug.

7) Requiring any person who buys a firearm or ammunition to have proof of completing a firearm safety course.

To me it makes far more sense to push for such laws and tactics than to overreach and try for a fairly useless ban on assault weapons.

I realize that those who wish to see strict gun laws such as exist in many nations understand that banning and confiscating all firearms has to be accomplished in small incremental steps. That effort has failed even after truly tragic events such as the Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre.

I will admit that sometime long in the future gun confiscation might happen in this nation but I am more worried about reducing gun violence right now. As I have said firearm violence has fallen significantly in recent years and is now at a level last seen in the late 1960s which was a fairly peaceful time. I feel we can do far better and cut firearm violence maybe in half and reduce the level of suicide as well through better mental healthcare which is affordable to all.

But few on the gun control side appear to have any real interest in passing simple solutions such I have just suggested that might make a real difference in the next five to ten years. Instead they push for bans on assault weapons and the number of rounds a magazine can hold. I'm sorry but the chances of another assault weapons ban passing at the federal level are slim to none. Not only is the effort to pass one futile but it also causes unintended consequences. The sale of firearms and ammunition absolutely skyrocketed after our recent tragic shootings led to the Democratic Party push for another AWB. Instead of improving our gun laws we accomplished nothing and now millions more firearms are in civilian hands. Undoubtedly many people who just purchased their first firearm will end up committing suicide, murdering a family member or having a tragic accident as they know little about firearm safety. Some of these weapons may be used in a mass shooting.

The gun control movement and the main stream media to incrementally disarm Americans reminds me of Don Quixote tilting at windmills. It's a noble effort and that's all.

I personally would like to see a time similar to when I grew up in the 1950s and 60s when most gun owners had good reason to own their weapons. They were hunters and target shooters or lived in extremely dangerous neighborhoods.

All the gun control effort has accomplished over the years with its push for gun bans is that the gun manufacturers have profited, the NRA has gained members and many gun owners have left the Democratic Party and will never return.





Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Both are dropping, but vehicle deaths are dropping much faster. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #1
Gun deaths vs gun injuries. ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #57
Gun-related homicide has seen the same trend. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #59
But access to an in home gun makes suicide by gun more likely. tblue37 Feb 2014 #88
Cars can be made safer... awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #89
I WiSH I could say I'm surprised, but sadly.... hlthe2b Feb 2014 #2
Why would gun owners hold against you a preference to not see youth car deaths decrease? aikoaiko Feb 2014 #4
Wow.. you haven't been around here over the past year(s) much, have you? hlthe2b Feb 2014 #5
Don't worry. Insults to pro-2A DUers are "hide-proof." Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #100
Wait for self driving cars. It will drop even more. n-t Logical Feb 2014 #3
This is great news! Bad Thoughts Feb 2014 #6
THIS!!!!!! BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #22
Most legal gun owners tend to agree about safe storage. blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #35
But we are talking about 'kids' 15 to 24. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #120
I have some heart burn about this one too. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #123
Your post points to an issue that is great concern to me BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #127
Well, most (all? not sure, certainly most) states have a waiting period for handguns. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #129
Less guns is the only one I can come up with. BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #131
OK I'm in proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #122
So what can be done? Nothing? BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #130
Well, I may not know much, but I know this AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #133
I know, and it is part of what is making us a 2nd world country BrotherIvan Feb 2014 #134
Canada and Europe do not have the second amendment and your not going to get your way. proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #137
It's probably true that for the time being there's not going to be any sanity in our gun laws. DanTex Feb 2014 #145
Not surprising. In any nation that largely forbids firearm ownership it is only obvious ... spin Feb 2014 #176
I stopped reading when I got to the "gang violence" talking point. DanTex Feb 2014 #180
So if your think that gang violence which accounts for 12% of all homicides is insignificant ... spin Feb 2014 #181
Not quite "insiginficant", but certainly not "the main cause" as many many pro-gunners claim. DanTex Feb 2014 #182
The choice is to try to finds a number of different ways to reduce gun violence. ... spin Feb 2014 #183
Universal background checks would be a step in the right direction. DanTex Feb 2014 #185
My point is that largely we gave the gun lobby and the GOP the ability ... spin Feb 2014 #186
The AWB was dropped, and it still failed. DanTex Feb 2014 #187
There is no doubt that our opinions on a good appraoch to gun control differ but I still feel ... spin Feb 2014 #189
We've tried your approach, it hasn't worked. DanTex Feb 2014 #190
I do remember the background check vote and that also that it had overwhelming public support. ... spin Feb 2014 #210
Going after the AWB didn't make any difference in the background check vote. DanTex Feb 2014 #212
Since I hope to see some improvements to our national gun laws ... spin Feb 2014 #216
Delete. Replied to wrong post. (n/t) spin Feb 2014 #188
Post removed Post removed Feb 2014 #7
Um... tosh Feb 2014 #9
What Are Gang Bangers? otohara Feb 2014 #10
Gang members that shoot at each other. badtoworse Feb 2014 #11
Brown people. Iggo Feb 2014 #29
Yep. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #32
Evidence of racism? blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #36
He said "gang bangers". ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #37
there are no white gangs? Duckhunter935 Feb 2014 #39
I'm sure there are. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #40
I don't like the term...precisely because of that association. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #62
Yeah, white kids are called gangbangers all the time. Iggo Feb 2014 #73
And some whites listen to gangsta rap Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #177
So when you hear the term "gang banger" blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #41
I don't. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #42
Not "defending" anything. blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #43
Since by any measure gang members who are white are a TINY minority of gang members Gormy Cuss Feb 2014 #168
Riiiggghttt Capt. Obvious Feb 2014 #178
Trayvon Martin Was Called A Gangbanger otohara Feb 2014 #61
And the OKC bomber was called a terrorist... Iggo Feb 2014 #70
Hmmm JJChambers Feb 2014 #75
That's bullshit. There are gangs of every ethnicity badtoworse Feb 2014 #84
I am unaware of any instances of someone using "gangbanger" in reference to white kids. Iggo Feb 2014 #86
You thought wrong, what can I say. badtoworse Feb 2014 #96
This is a geographical issue. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #124
In my neck of the woods, those "gangbangers" would be Hispanic Packerowner740 Feb 2014 #109
billie bangers father founding Feb 2014 #144
Two things.... Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #12
Vehicular deaths are accidents. Deaths from gang violence are intentional. badtoworse Feb 2014 #14
Many deaths from guns are intentional. Cali_Democrat Feb 2014 #15
I think I see the point he is trying to make JJChambers Feb 2014 #19
A person who likes to speed is more likely to be killed in an accident Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #48
How about Crepuscular Feb 2014 #55
No, reporting all the numbers is the most reasonable thing to do Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #58
Including suicides is misleading JJChambers Feb 2014 #64
Access to guns makes suicide far more likely Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #66
I guess you missed post #16 JJChambers Feb 2014 #67
People would resort to other means they are more likely to survive Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #68
I don't think so JJChambers Feb 2014 #77
If that were the case I would be dead right now Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #79
I'm not about to disagree with your life experience JJChambers Feb 2014 #81
That chart only lists a small number of countries which were cherry picked to make a point Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #83
That graph shows Crepuscular Feb 2014 #93
So, how do the Japanese succeed so well sans guns? Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #101
No one claimed that suicides don't happen without guns Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #103
FAR more? I seriously doubt that. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #69
The reseach disagrees with you... Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #76
So... JJChambers Feb 2014 #78
Yes, it would plummet in the absence of guns Bjorn Against Feb 2014 #82
Yes, that is what the data and the research implies. DanTex Feb 2014 #108
What if we treated suicidal depression instead? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #191
What's this "instead"? DanTex Feb 2014 #193
"I'm all for improving healthcare. But I never think of it as an alternative to improving gun laws." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #194
LOL. Somewhere I read that conservatives are not comfortable with nuance... DanTex Feb 2014 #195
"Gun control saves lives." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #196
OK, so now we get down to the heart of the matter. DanTex Feb 2014 #197
"You probably don't believe global warming is real either." Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #198
LOL. "Debunked studies". DanTex Feb 2014 #199
What laws would you propose that would pass constitutional and electoral muster? Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #200
Electoral muster. The John Beohner test. Interesting standard there. DanTex Feb 2014 #201
electoral = of the electorate = the voters. Congress = congressional. I wrote electoral. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #202
I don't think you understand our system of government. DanTex Feb 2014 #203
I was referring to how a gun control law passed a Democratic-controlled state house and a Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #204
Yes, we should base all our policies on the outcomes of two special state congress elections. DanTex Feb 2014 #205
"I'm in favor of handgun registration and licensing" Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #206
By making it harder to go out and buy a gun on a whim, and reducing irresponsible gun ownership. DanTex Feb 2014 #207
Waiting periods are the check to whim purchasing. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2014 #208
Waiting periods would be good too. DanTex Feb 2014 #209
Hyperbole Crepuscular Feb 2014 #92
There is no logic in the comparison. That's my point badtoworse Feb 2014 #20
But you didn't say "remove homicides from the statistics". You said "remove gang bangers" muriel_volestrangler Feb 2014 #114
The deceased in each case did not intend to die. The comparison is appropriate. morningfog Feb 2014 #51
Fail. Agschmid Feb 2014 #17
The implicit assumption is that if guns were unavailable, the gang violence would not have occurred. badtoworse Feb 2014 #21
So if gang members had no guns they would still kill each other at the same rate? n-t Logical Feb 2014 #26
Apparently... Seems off base to me. Agschmid Feb 2014 #52
There is no way to know how many deaths would occur using other weapons badtoworse Feb 2014 #80
They would still kill each other as efficiently as they could proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #138
That's simply not true. DanTex Feb 2014 #147
What exact part of that is not true? proudretiredvet Feb 2014 #151
This part: DanTex Feb 2014 #152
I do not agree with your assertions. proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #217
Once we relax the war on drugs, that should go a long way NickB79 Feb 2014 #45
because, see, gang bangers don't count when talking about gun humpers? Skittles Feb 2014 #50
I know it's GD AlertProof, but could you drop the sex crap? Thanx! Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #102
Even habitual criminals' deaths are important. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #60
Of course every life is important badtoworse Feb 2014 #85
Agreed: it is an absurd, disingenuous comparison. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #98
There's a link between group sex and gun violence? JVS Feb 2014 #72
They reject that reality, man. Gang violence is the main cause of gun homicide. But Skip Intro Feb 2014 #91
This post just blows my mind. Skinner Feb 2014 #97
You're wrong. And here's why... Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #104
Many folks at GD also don't like to be reminded that the world is flat. ieoeja Feb 2014 #161
Bullshit. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #164
I can't expect to reason with the guy with the gun in his screen name but... CreekDog Feb 2014 #166
Synthetic charges of racism are a creature of your own id. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #171
This message was self-deleted by its author CreekDog Feb 2014 #174
I think it's actually rather the opposite. LAGC Feb 2014 #111
I don't mean to blow your mind. Skip Intro Feb 2014 #118
yeah, we know you "like the place" Skittles Feb 2014 #135
Why? Skip Intro Feb 2014 #158
Well not only the lives of gang bangers, but they've written off the victims of the gang bangers CreekDog Feb 2014 #167
Thank you. Jamastiene Feb 2014 #175
Just for the record, gang violence is not the main cause of gun homicide. DanTex Feb 2014 #179
WTF?!? According to 2011 FBI stats, one of the lowest causes of gun homicides is "gang related". ieoeja Feb 2014 #160
Bullshit. See post 164. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #165
that's funny, i didn't see you call Skinner's post "bullshit" CreekDog Feb 2014 #169
Skinner's post wasn't bullshit. n/t Skip Intro Feb 2014 #172
neither was the one you did call "bullshit" CreekDog Feb 2014 #173
I wonder how many of those young people were getting blown up/killed in war valerief Feb 2014 #8
Young people aren't buying cars like they used to JimDandy Feb 2014 #13
Have any facts to back that up? Agschmid Feb 2014 #18
The fact that they're buying fewer cars is proof seattledo Feb 2014 #44
Why Don't Young Americans Buy Cars? - The Atlantic NickB79 Feb 2014 #46
Thanks. Agschmid Feb 2014 #53
You see this change quite vividly in the motorcycle marketplace. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #65
THey also are driving "less" than previous generations etherealtruth Feb 2014 #54
That graphic Crepuscular Feb 2014 #16
It would be more accurate to say rrneck Feb 2014 #23
Firearm or Vehicle Pedoviejo2 Feb 2014 #24
How much of this is related to gang violence, drug cartels and other criminal organizations? LittleBlue Feb 2014 #25
Very little. According to FBI 2011 report, "gang related" is one of the fewest causes of homicides. ieoeja Feb 2014 #162
The price we are forced to pay to keep gun fanciers happy. Hoyt Feb 2014 #27
Yep. What's a few dead kids Demobrat Feb 2014 #163
Why the huge drop sarisataka Feb 2014 #28
Just a guess Crepuscular Feb 2014 #31
Airbags and better trauma medicine. nt laundry_queen Feb 2014 #49
Yes to both of those. nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2014 #90
Because things like regulations work. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #33
Because of accidents with automobiles. blueridge3210 Feb 2014 #38
What regulations were enacted at the beginning of that sharp decline? Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #63
Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2014 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #99
Stop with the gratuitous insults, OK? nt Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #105
It's a useful heads-up, IMO. Lizzie Poppet Feb 2014 #211
The engineers are making it harder to die in car accidents. ManiacJoe Feb 2014 #56
The youth suicide rate is stubbornly constant hack89 Feb 2014 #30
Comparing true accidents with deliberate acts (ie suicide and crime) is disingenuous. nt hack89 Feb 2014 #34
The talking point came in at 11:33... IveWornAHundredPants Feb 2014 #71
You do have a point. Rex Feb 2014 #94
No, it misses the point. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #113
Shouldn't that be 'successful suicide'? AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #125
Suicide should be left out of the comparison seveneyes Feb 2014 #47
...and had spread to the lower echelons by 1:38. IveWornAHundredPants Feb 2014 #74
And still unrefuted the next day. Eleanors38 Feb 2014 #106
Suicide absolutely should be counted. Guns increase suicide 5 times. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #112
Yet Japan's suicide rate is MUCH higher than ours. LAGC Feb 2014 #115
It is well established that guns increase the risk of suicide. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #116
It also has a lot to do with how suicides are counted in Japan. oneshooter Feb 2014 #117
Really? AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #132
That is why the murder rate in Japan is so low, everybody suicides. n/t oneshooter Feb 2014 #153
Oh, we're not entirely free from that sort of thing. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #128
There is already a very successful model to follow: Australia. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #141
That could work. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #142
We don't need to change the Constitution, we just need to read it correctly. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #146
That's the logic the right wing uses to stack the courts to attack Roe vs. Wade. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #148
It is a very viable tactic. It has worked for the GOP. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #149
Sure, I agree the right is not unlimited. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #150
An Australian-style buy-back program would avoid all those issues and be extremely successful. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #154
I don't know, that is a strange sort of behavior. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #155
The GOP is like that in EVERY state. nt SunSeeker Feb 2014 #156
But ineffective in most states. AtheistCrusader Feb 2014 #157
I WISH. 29 of our 50 states have GOP governors. That's a majority. SunSeeker Feb 2014 #159
Suicide absolutely should be included. ANY analysis of guns that ignores suicides is pointless Recursion Feb 2014 #119
We are talking about causes of death alarimer Feb 2014 #214
Well then, I guess old age has them all beat seveneyes Feb 2014 #215
Did you know that unintentional injuries are the leading cause of death for young people? Rex Feb 2014 #95
Obviously, teens can't afford the gas Demeter Feb 2014 #107
It's a republican dream. Turbineguy Feb 2014 #110
There is a very interesting correlation in this thread concerning numbers. Ikonoklast Feb 2014 #121
Thank you Ralph Nader. joshcryer Feb 2014 #126
I'd like to see deaths related alcohol overlaid on this. NT Adrahil Feb 2014 #136
1/3 of drunk driving deaths are teens KurtNYC Feb 2014 #139
Pretty good estimate. Here's more... Adrahil Feb 2014 #140
straw man father founding Feb 2014 #143
Gun deaths are falling; it appears to me that both are falling, so it's good news all around. NYC_SKP Feb 2014 #170
But whatever you do, don't say the words "suicide" or "men". lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #184
confiscate all guns and melt them down. PowerToThePeople Feb 2014 #192
Cars have gotten a lot safer in 14 years; guns, not so much. alarimer Feb 2014 #213
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