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In reply to the discussion: "Let's work to end racial discrimination" is a better approach than "whites are so privileged". [View all]El_Johns
(1,805 posts)236. None so blind
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"Let's work to end racial discrimination" is a better approach than "whites are so privileged". [View all]
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
OP
The example I used ("stop and frisk") probably results in a fair bit of unconscoious discrimination,
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#2
Who, in this thread said anything about there not being any jobs? Why are you insisting that this
Squinch
Feb 2014
#212
American Privilege is even more damaging, especially to all those countries where America,
sabrina 1
Mar 2014
#430
If you think that "every person in the country" says "I oppose racial discrimination"
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#21
Yeah, and bandying the term "male privilege" about doesn't usually help either (nt)
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#6
Naa, especially when I keep posting Women are people too, and everyone should have the same
RC
Feb 2014
#146
So you really believe there is some ulterior motive here for people posting in this thread, and it
Squinch
Feb 2014
#150
If more white people acknowledged the pervasive effects of white privelege, if we didn't
Squinch
Feb 2014
#116
Because frankly, "the general public" as a whole have shit for brains. And are racist as all hell
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#277
The only reason it "derails discussions" is because people's precious fee-fees are apparently more
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#275
People's feelings are important, of course. I didn't really mean to imply otherwise.
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#318
Frankly, I just don't see any other interpretation of that incident which doesn't in some way rely
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#363
What happened to Trayvon was a manifestation of discrimination and bigotry.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2014
#41
Right. There's really no substance to discussions about "white privilege" except snottiness.
Squinch
Feb 2014
#120
He didn't say there was no substance; he said that the discussions of 'white privilege' he's seen
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#177
that only tells us that you spend more time among "snotty white college kids" than many of us here.
bettyellen
Feb 2014
#203
I'm white and I have no problem accepting the fact that I have privileges that others do not
Whisp
Feb 2014
#26
To be brutally honest, I see nothing wrong with "tearing down" the ignorant and self-centered
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#279
here's my opinion on this. i live in a big city, and it's very diverse. in this context, you bet
dionysus
Feb 2014
#184
it most certainly exists, i am just positing that people who have never seen it, won't get it.
dionysus
Feb 2014
#197
Exactly. Privilege is more about the bad things that *don't* happen to you in life.
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#282
Maybe the reason for the difficulty is that the term is flawed. You could consider that.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#367
Telling people of color how they are fighting racism wrong. Where have I seen that tactic before?
Squinch
Feb 2014
#119
Except the meme in its current manifestation comes out of the white ivy league and feminist studies
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#149
So questioning the meme of "white privilege" doesn't equal "telling black people they are fighting
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#164
That makes no sense at all. The term "democratic" comes from a french word that came from a greek
Squinch
Feb 2014
#168
If the originators of the term and the most visible promoters of the term are mainly white,
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#172
lol. the phenomenon you label as white privilege exists. questioning the label and its theoretical
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#175
...as those who will not see that white privilege is a fact of American life in 2014.
Squinch
Feb 2014
#409
well, what does it explain? and what are we supposed to do after accepting our "white privilege"?
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#251
It doesn't explain how our society works at all. That's one of the reasons I take exception to it.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#259
How's that? His grandfather owned a chain of liquor stores and other properties.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#160
Perhaps there have been "white privilege" threads that have been civilized and productive
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#15
And all the while, they insist their supposed hurt feelings be catered to, while not giving a
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#283
You care about the perspectives of blacks that slap you on the back and say amen.
TheKentuckian
Feb 2014
#382
I don't need an African American group to find out what black folks think.
TheKentuckian
Feb 2014
#387
Not at all. That would be a statistically false statement. I'm saying your sample is comprised of
TheKentuckian
Feb 2014
#395
"I would think you would want to have these discussions in the African American group".
Nye Bevan
Mar 2014
#432
Honestly, this is one of the most eloquent and thoughtful responses I've seen on here.
AverageJoe90
Feb 2014
#406
And maybe -no definitely - the people denying white privilege and not those pointing it out are the
Squinch
Feb 2014
#124
The only one I can see is "We need to be more gentle talking about these things."
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#284
"Privilege". If you really, truly think this is a helpful educational tool.....
AverageJoe90
Feb 2014
#154
you cant end discrimination if those who benefit from it dont acknowledge it. nt
La Lioness Priyanka
Feb 2014
#13
Well, if you think that it's productive to accuse others of "internalizing" their racism,
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#32
Yes, and what could possibly matter more than some white people's personal feelings on the subject?
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#314
NO. You are pretending that people who take exception to the white privilege meme do it because
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#127
Look, many people on these threads have expressed what it's about. The objections are various.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#246
1. I've told no "members of color" they shouldn't raise issues of concern to them.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#276
"What is most essential is that you never be confronted with the reality of the world around you."
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#316
How often are you pulled over by cops for no reason but the color of your skin?
BainsBane
Feb 2014
#92
Exactly. Even putting aside past injustices, there are still plenty in the present. n/t
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#319
You're kidding, right? As if the response to "institutional racism" can or should be met by
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#82
Again, with the what have *I* done, as if my individual response to racism were the linchpin
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#95
If the diagnosis of the problem is that individuals do not accept the reality of their white
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#102
"Work to end discrimination" is empty cant, especially when all the energy of those
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#130
If people would stop derailing discussions about white privilege because they object to the term
Squinch
Feb 2014
#142
So start the discussion, what specific actions do you propose to combat racism?
Bjorn Against
Feb 2014
#210
The job isn't completed when the mechanic agrees that the car is broken.
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2014
#55
Really? I have experienced plenty of white people who deny the very concept of "privilege"...
YoungDemCA
Feb 2014
#106
So long as even one person persists in saying "privilege isn't the right way to think about this"...
lumberjack_jeff
Feb 2014
#176
I think you are confusing overt government actions such as Affirmative Action,
Baitball Blogger
Feb 2014
#380
People said Malcom X and Martin Luther King were going about it the wrong way back then
gollygee
Feb 2014
#68
I have. And it's very interesting that the person who coined the term did so in Marxist terms, in
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#93
I've read "Unpacking". In comparison with Theodore Allen's work, it's a child's scribble.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#117
Because he was a working class scholar unaffiliated with institutional power, and a Marxist.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#151
"White people have a definite self-interest in changing things." I agree with this much anyway.
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#321
No one "jokes" about reducing the welfare rolls by murdering "white thugs."
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#322
The logical problem with the term "white privilege" means that we're all privileged
LittleBlue
Feb 2014
#123
The other problem is that it disappears real privilege: the privilege of the ruling class that
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#137
But a middle- or upper-class black man is still more likely to be hassled by cops
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#325
"white privilege" is a blanket term. I & george are both white, thus we are equal in our "white
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#163
They ARE equal in their white privilege, they are not equal in their total personal privilege.
kwassa
Feb 2014
#198
Yes, George & I are equal in our white privilege. But that really doesn't explain anything, does it
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#213
That was explained long ago. "white privilege" is just slapping another label on it.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#253
They are not equal in their privilege. There's a tremendous difference in social class.
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#324
Yes, intersectionality etc. Which leads, in these discussions, to people toting up all their
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#338
I don't think of this as a "game" with a "score," and I doubt many people who are actually
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#341
I don't know about that; I'm just saying that there always seems to be a few in these
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#346
OK. So what I don't understand is that if you start from the proposition that whites as a category
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#365
OK. So you're not saying that whites as a category are racist. That wasn't apparent from your
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#370
"But suddenly everyone who hasn't experienced sexual abuse is privileged to have avoided that
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#323
The problem is, this same attitude has been rather prevalent with certain sets.........
AverageJoe90
Feb 2014
#179
the wword is not derailing discusision- people are. Oversensitive, self involved people who do not
bettyellen
Feb 2014
#181
If the communication is not effective toward the audience that needs to receive it
TheKentuckian
Feb 2014
#302
I don't think anyones making PSAs about the privilege- are they? Just having an honest discussion
bettyellen
Feb 2014
#304
It doesn't offend me in the slightest. I'm not sure where you got that from.
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#193
"The goal is to discuss racial issues in a non-contentious, productive manner."
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#326
Believe me (or not), at my age it takes an awful lot more to offend me than a phrase
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#234
I'm offended that you have the nerve to tell black people which terms they should use to make you
bravenak
Feb 2014
#238
I'm sorry that you think that observing that a particular phrase tends to be unhelpful
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#240
The old way of saying it nicely hasn't been effective. It hasn't been productive. It's just talk.
bravenak
Feb 2014
#258
When a black guy took North Carolina and Virginia in the 2008 presidential election,
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#261
OK. And other people presumably state what they think is plain as well. The term doesn't make
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#292
I don't propose anything like "fixing the economic issues first". But I don't see much of
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#300
So politicians recruit black support and fail to follow through on their promises? Obviously.
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#305
I don't disagree, except with the usefulness of the term. As I've stated before. Ta da!
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#312
I can't tell that your comments aren't intended personally either, but I take you at your word in
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#354
"The real cause of racism" is WHITE PEOPLE. PERIOD. White people INVENTED that shit!
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#327
I didn't ask for a get out of jail card or anything of the sort. And yelling doesn't get your point
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#333
But I'm not talking about a hypothetical world in which white people don't exist.
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#336
Maybe, maybe not. But that's kind of beside the point, for the purposes of this discussion.
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#342
The reason I ask is, I feel the hidden assumption of meritocracy in these discussions and can't help
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#351
Maybe. Just as some have a blind spot RE: race, others have one RE: class.
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#356
"Let's work to end racial discrimination" is a better response to white privilege than complaining
fishwax
Feb 2014
#204
i own white privilege. it doesnt derail, it enhances and enlightens conversation. to deny
seabeyond
Feb 2014
#219
people DENY white privilege. it is a reality for those not white. they are denying a quiet form of
seabeyond
Feb 2014
#223
As long as they keep denying obvious realities, the rest of us will keep "hectoring" them!
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#329
thank you. but, it truly makes no sense to me that white people cannot see it. it is so fuggin
seabeyond
Feb 2014
#228
"It's the hyperbole I object to". I think that we are approaching a meeting of minds here.
Nye Bevan
Feb 2014
#256
Of course you pride yourself on being just offensive enough to not get hidden.
morningfog
Feb 2014
#268
It is a necessary step for real change to occur. You are an obstructionist, charitably.
morningfog
Feb 2014
#272
In what way is it a necessary step for "real change"? If it's necessary, why wasn't it necessary
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#278
Oooh, nine recs out of 300. Would that any of you nine would think about that.
bettyellen
Feb 2014
#310
Tell me Betty, what are the achievements of 20+ years of the "white privilege" meme?
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#313
are you fucking kidding me? why would you think that is quantifiable movement or PSA or something?
bettyellen
Feb 2014
#317
Again, "people who work in anti-racism campaigns all the time" are not the target for your supposed
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#320
I don't much care about your opinion of how I sound. And you don't know anything about what I have
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#334
Oops. I thought it linked to mine. In which case I would have had every reason to take it personal
El_Johns
Feb 2014
#371
Nye, I'm telling you that there is a subtly here that is creating the confusion for a lot of people.
Baitball Blogger
Feb 2014
#384
When I write my story, they will have something to hang their hat on.
Baitball Blogger
Feb 2014
#415
Because reducing a nuanced argument to a simplistic strawman makes it easier
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#413
Nothing wrong with that sentiment, in and of itself. But it requires the assumption that the OP
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#414
In general I agree with that. Where we may disagree is on the source of said "division."
nomorenomore08
Feb 2014
#422
I don't think it's "ostracizing people who disagree" to suggest that their posts don't come off
nomorenomore08
Mar 2014
#426