Fuck your "pro-life" anti-abortion, pro-gun, anti-white privilege arguments.

[Token Republican]

151. My piranha pool is being cleaned

I like to swim naked in a pool of piranhas, but since I can't until the service man leaves, I'll jump into this thread.

The biggest problems I've seen on the issues raised by the OP is a complete misunderstanding of what the other side is thinking. One thing I've learned in resolving disputes is that its extremely valuable for each side to be able to articulate the other side's position, not to change minds but to understand the root cause of the disagreement.

Abortion is horrible, its an abomination, yet I support the right to it. Its a necessary evil to address a very hard decision. I've debated the abortion issue with people who hold widely divergent views, and I've yet to hear anyone say or imply that opposition to abortion is due to a desire to impose a moral code on anyone. Opponents of abortion view fetuses as babies. You can agree or disagree, but with that assumption, if it is true, then opponents of abortion are motivated by saving lives.

Proponent of the right of abortion see the effects of an unwanted pregnancy on the woman, and how having a child can be such a life altering event that she alone should have control. Having, and raising a child is such a responsibility that there should be a way to remedy an unplanned pregnancy. I've yet to hear anyone gleefully say they love abortions; the motivation for keeping the right to abortion is about having women continue to have control over their own bodies and future.

Its beyond exasperating when neither side can see what motivates the other.

In this thread, there are arguments that take each side to the extreme. That's actually a useful technique to test a premise. Nobody is arguing that a woman in labor should have the right to abort, which means that the right to abortion does end sometime before birth. Is it hours? days? weeks? months? There's no hard and fast line here, but nearly everyone agrees it exists. Somewhere.

On the other side, absent the extremist view that life begins at conception, there is a general acceptance that abortion is acceptable if its early enough. But how early? A day? week? month? At some point there is a line that is crossed that it stops being acceptable and turns into murder. But just like the other side, there is a line that nearly everyone agrees exists. Somewhere.

Overall, asking yourself the hard questions is critical. If a woman has an absolute right to an abortion, it means the fetus has no rights. If so, how can you justify some laws that criminalize killing a fetus when a pregnant woman is killed? It might be right or wrong, but its inconsistent with the premise. If abortion is murder, then how can there be an exception for rape and incest. The child didn't cause these events and why should the child pay the ultimate price. If a fetus is a parasite, does that mean that a living being who is 100% dependent biologically on one other specific being has a right to be killed? If so, what about co-joined twins? If that premise is true, then each co-joined twin should have the right to kill each other. What I'm saying is take your assumptions and conclusions, and test them with the hard questions. If you're comfortable with the answers, your conclusions are probably valid. If not, then perhaps they should be revisited.

Its these kind of questions that everyone needs to answer, if only to themselves.