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Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)

85. Yes. Point being, strategically, the Crimea is essential to Russia.

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 09:20 AM

Mar 2014

They never really let it go, always had a port there, and will try to hold onto it. They consider it a matter of national security, as we would say.

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Stupid question, I know: Why shouldn't Ukraine split in two? [View all] MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 OP

Ukraine would lose Black Sea access, I think TheMightyFavog Mar 2014 #1

Looks like they'd get that yellow strip. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #4

Pretty cavalier about another nation's territorial integrity Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #2

Ok. Why not, if it'll increase the peace? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #3

Sudan dsc Mar 2014 #5

Ireland is worse off as an independent country than it was as part of the UK? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #9

I meant Northern Ireland dsc Mar 2014 #10

For a couple of reasons Chathamization Mar 2014 #20

It won't. Igel Mar 2014 #99

increase peace? Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #117

Scotland looks as if it might be on the way to splitting with the UK Fumesucker Mar 2014 #6

PM me when that happens. Hint: Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #11

Only if the UK allows it. joshcryer Mar 2014 #55

slippery slope, will lead to men marrying their dogs WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #15

Why did Czechoslovakia choose to split in two, and why is it our business what they do? Ireland is sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #46

Caring about outcome of an invasion of another country doesn't necessarily mean davidpdx Mar 2014 #69

Unless of course 'we' are doing the invading of other countries malaise Mar 2014 #87

It was entirely internal, along fairly well-established internal borders. Igel Mar 2014 #101

What does your last paragraph have to do with this conversation? Are you saying that those of us sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #109

"Why shouldn't Germany have annexed the Sudetenland? After all, it had a German-speaking majority!" Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #7

I don't believe that I called for annexation. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #13

You seem to be confused. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #16

So you want us to go to war with Russia? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #18

Not really, no. Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #28

So you think Russia won't dominate a united Ukraine MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #33

Yes and yes Spider Jerusalem Mar 2014 #37

Didn't most Ukrainians vote for Russian-leaning politicians? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #38

Right, because having 70 people massacred in the streets by the pro-Russian govt BainsBane Mar 2014 #48

So they didn't vote for his government? nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #49

I want to make something very clear BainsBane Mar 2014 #51

You seem to want to change the conversation MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #54

Hell, Manny, you could post a fucking recipe for meatloaf and ... 11 Bravo Mar 2014 #105

I'm going to try that. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #110

I look forward to continuing this discussion MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #58

You'll have to talk to Chris about that BainsBane Mar 2014 #123

My understanding is that the deposed president thucythucy Mar 2014 #90

Looks like he campaigned on closer ties to EU *and* Russia MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #91

Looks like he was a pretty run of the mill politician, thucythucy Mar 2014 #97

Good post. nt laundry_queen Mar 2014 #108

In America, we vote in Conservative assholes. randome Mar 2014 #102

That's exactly right! MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #103

Answer the question treestar Mar 2014 #75

Why shouldn't a country do whatever it wants without our interference? Other countries have chosen sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #53

+1. Nt newfie11 Mar 2014 #68

Laughable davidpdx Mar 2014 #70

No silly, the vote under military occupation. joshcryer Mar 2014 #71

I'm going to conduct an experiment here, I hope you don't mind if I use YOUR comment to do so. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #116

+1 BainsBane Mar 2014 #120

A brief footnote to that DFW Mar 2014 #73

Perhaps, I have friends in Slovakia who recognize eg, that they have an unemployment issue eg sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #107

There is a difference between being proud of your ethnicity and changing your nationality DFW Mar 2014 #113

But would they go back is the question, I have no idea what the general feeling among sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #118

Western Ukraine likes having a big country, but they seem to resent the fact that ethnic Russians... JVS Mar 2014 #8

Ukraine should not be forced to answer to Russia. Period. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #17

If the democratically elected government chooses to have a trade pact with Russia, that is... JVS Mar 2014 #21

That is almost certainly Putin's plan. joshcryer Mar 2014 #56

If they want that, they should be allowed to arrange it--without a foreign army TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #12

Because it won't actually split in two. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #14

So what's your better solution? nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #19

Ukraine stays united. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #22

Ukraine, Love It Or Leave It Fumesucker Mar 2014 #23

It's a seperate country from Russia for a reason. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #25

Someone should tell the Hawaiians Fumesucker Mar 2014 #34

Just because we've done it, doesn't make it any less right. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #86

What it ~does~ mean is that we look like total hypocrites when criticizing them Fumesucker Mar 2014 #88

This message was self-deleted by its author Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #89

What about those of use that were criticizing the US Government for those actions? Chathamization Mar 2014 #106

Crimea has never really been seperate from Russia but on paper. bt Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #76

It once belonged mainly to the Ethnic Tartars. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #83

Yes. Point being, strategically, the Crimea is essential to Russia. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #85

You say that in my scenario, Russians annex territory and some ethnic groups are screwed MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #24

Ethnic groups can stay or ethnic groups can go. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #26

Why would Russians stay away from a united Ukraine MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #27

I don't know. We're talking in hypotheticals here. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #31

so if a bunch of Americans move to southern Canada backwoodsbob Mar 2014 #72

According to the Belavezha accords, the ethnic Russians have a right to stay put AND to have... JVS Mar 2014 #43

Good point. joshcryer Mar 2014 #47

Hopefully they'll start communicating with the Easterners. JVS Mar 2014 #63

It needs to not come with debt to equity swap extortion though. joshcryer Mar 2014 #65

I think Belarus' client status has a lot more to do with Lukashenko's refusal to do any political... JVS Mar 2014 #67

And in those accords Ukrainians have a right to be free of Russian incursion on their soil..... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #84

If they vote to do it...cool, if not MYOB alittlelark Mar 2014 #29

It's not advice. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #30

It is interesting how so many here seem to forget this is a discussion board penultimate Mar 2014 #39

Welcome to my world. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #40

Manny... TeeYiYi Mar 2014 #122

It's only a small group of people but they sure are vocal. Autumn Mar 2014 #114

We have enough problems. jsr Mar 2014 #32

I spent two weeks in Ukraine a couple years ago bif Mar 2014 #35

Only 17% of Ukrainian citizens are ethnic Russians. JVS Mar 2014 #36

Carnival in Crimea polly7 Mar 2014 #82

That should be something that decided internally without outside influences... penultimate Mar 2014 #41

Agreed. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #42

I don't think we have any option here, to be honest. penultimate Mar 2014 #50

I'm curious TBF Mar 2014 #94

With respect to Ukraine? penultimate Mar 2014 #95

No TBF Mar 2014 #98

Is there any evidence of money being used to directly fund fascists? penultimate Mar 2014 #104

Because this is the map of ethnic Ukranians: joshcryer Mar 2014 #44

Then why did most of the country vote for MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #45

Viktor Yanukovich was for EU integration before he was against it. joshcryer Mar 2014 #52

Pro-Moscow Yanukovych 'to win Ukraine election' MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #57

"European Union membership remains Ukraine's strategic goal" - Yanukovych joshcryer Mar 2014 #59

Link? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #61

See edit. joshcryer Mar 2014 #62

also apropos of nothing, and because I drank Smuttynose IPA last night, Vattel Mar 2014 #79

Smuttynose IPA is in our regular rotation MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #111

Seems like he was playing two sides against each other MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #64

Now you know how politicians work. joshcryer Mar 2014 #66

I never understood that. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #92

"Ukraine's integration with the EU remains our strategic aim." - Yanukovych joshcryer Mar 2014 #60

This is the case, no doubt. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #77

The leaders of the "Orange Revolution" said some awful things that were not in our press newthinking Mar 2014 #115

Very interesting, thanks. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #121

No questions! The Powers That Be don't like anyone asking any questions! reformist2 Mar 2014 #74

What a minorty part of the country desires may not be best for the country, that's why DFW Mar 2014 #78

The parties that took power represent less than 30% of the electorate newthinking Mar 2014 #119

Thorny situation there. Interesting discussion of it all here. pinto Mar 2014 #80

The Czechs and Slovaks both agreed. The Czechoslovak parliament approved it. pampango Mar 2014 #81

I wonder if anyone cares TBF Mar 2014 #93

It depends on whose perspective you're thinking of. MineralMan Mar 2014 #96

There are no stupid...oh. Hi, Manny. randome Mar 2014 #100

Great idea. Perhaps a conference could be held in a city such as Munich Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #112

Interesting. Autumn Mar 2014 #124