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stevenleser

(32,886 posts)

78. The ironies and hypocrisies seem to abound here. I think you start from the biggest crime and work

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 12:48 PM

Mar 2014

backwards.

You cannot justify a country engaging in the war crime of an unprovoked war of aggression. I protested it and wrote critical articles about it when Bush did it in Iraq, I am against it now that Putin is doing it in Ukraine. Countries always say they have reasons but international law is clear about that and it is dangerous for people of good conscience to gloss over it when it happens.

If Russia is concerned about the current leadership in Ukraine, they can go to the UN Security Council and try to get a resolution justifying the use of force. If they do not have that, and they dont, and Ukraine isn't posing a danger to them (Excuse me as I suppress a chuckle) then they are committing the war crime of an unprovoked war of aggression.

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"Russia is invading another country on completely trumped up pretext" [View all] dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 OP

heh. KG Mar 2014 #1

And the circle is complete. LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #2

Did he say it with a straight face? n/t Raven Mar 2014 #3

Straight is the only face John Kerry has. n/t JayhawkSD Mar 2014 #52

He said it with a long face 1000words Mar 2014 #126

k&r... spanone Mar 2014 #4

Kerry should be careful given his vote on the invasion of Iraq malaise Mar 2014 #5

Exactly! dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #7

+1,000 malaise Mar 2014 #9

Exactly. I think his inner-radical is still alive, somehwere in there. But he sold out years ago. reformist2 Mar 2014 #43

Somewhere, along his attempted way to the White House MoonRiver Mar 2014 #48

In his defense Orrex Mar 2014 #12

Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah malaise Mar 2014 #15

Amazing - DU mimicing Rush Limbaugh etc karynnj Mar 2014 #105

I know, have you seen the attacks on Democrats here we were so accustomed to from sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #120

Never thought I'd see that right-wing saying here... NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #117

I don't doubt that you put more serious work into it than he did Orrex Mar 2014 #124

good one Niceguy1 Mar 2014 #128

In his defense ProSense Mar 2014 #136

By that logic ProSense Mar 2014 #135

IOKIYAA n/t IDemo Mar 2014 #6

du rec. xchrom Mar 2014 #8

Awesome. jsr Mar 2014 #10

All the self-awareness of a rutabaga n/t Fumesucker Mar 2014 #11

See, therein lies the big question: dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #18

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #25

A proud moment of reckoning... MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #93

K&R DeSwiss Mar 2014 #13

Butt covering. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #14

Trumped up pretext = lies. Sounds familiar. jwirr Mar 2014 #16

Your SARC is inappropriate... brooklynite Mar 2014 #17

Did he vote For or Against the IWR? The record speaks for itself. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #19

Yes it does. The conditions specified in IWR were not met. stevenleser Mar 2014 #46

perhaps he should have listened to his superiors who spelled it out for him cali Mar 2014 #106

You didnt know anything. You guessed. No one knew because no one had been there. stevenleser Mar 2014 #140

thank you.. stillcool Mar 2014 #130

Are you trying to justify his vote? Because Bush didnt hold up his end of the bargain? Really? nm rhett o rick Mar 2014 #144

Did he know the evidence was cooked when he did? brooklynite Mar 2014 #47

There wasnt any evidence to be cooked. IWR and UN SecRes 1441 were passed to try to get evidence via stevenleser Mar 2014 #49

This Is The Point That Is Always Missed With Iraq Invasion DallasNE Mar 2014 #68

Exactly and perfectly right. I break this all down in this article I wrote back in 2009... stevenleser Mar 2014 #69

I was a little baffled to see a defense of the IWR on DU... Scootaloo Mar 2014 #132

Facts matter. The actual text of IWR matters. The fact that the UN Sec Council's 15 countries stevenleser Mar 2014 #138

Such 'cooking of evidence' would be a huge crime, that crime was never prosecuted or Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #62

And that is something I talk about semi-regularly. But again, in the context of this discussion... stevenleser Mar 2014 #66

Anyone with half a brain could figure that out and millions did. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #71

So, you are saying that Russia, China, Syria, and the other 15 countries that didnt know and voted stevenleser Mar 2014 #74

I'm not a mindless cheerleader like some people. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #79

That is not an answer. If you think those countries had vested interests that motivated their vote stevenleser Mar 2014 #86

I'm not a denizen of the morass. hobbit709 Mar 2014 #89

Yes "Denizen of the morass" explains away Putin's war crime of an unprovoked war of aggression. stevenleser Mar 2014 #91

sounds a lot like bush's I rag folly noiretextatique Mar 2014 #125

Nope, you should listen to yourself. You are justifying an unprovoked war of aggression in Ukraine stevenleser Mar 2014 #139

US has a track record that goes wayyy before bush dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #104

Assuming we accept all of that, how does that justify a Russian war crime? nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #143

I don't know many people.. sendero Mar 2014 #149

Uh-Oh!!! Title wave coming...of LIES ... MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #20

Oh, another hair shirt argument that because Bush was an asshole... Adrahil Mar 2014 #21

+10 (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #37

"We, as a nation, can't ever act in opposition to a tyrant"� MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #92

I never implied we were perfect. Adrahil Mar 2014 #96

I refer to my post #101... MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #102

You seriously think war is a reasonable reaction to Russia reinstalling Yanukovich or anyone else? TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #129

"Bush was an asshole"--puhleeze marions ghost Mar 2014 #150

He's such an idiot. He doesn't even realize how ironic that is coming out of his mouth? Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #22

He needs Jon Steward as a speech consultant to point out and avoid the irony. L0oniX Mar 2014 #51

Invading a country on trumped up pretexts is our job zeemike Mar 2014 #23

Eh, most invasions are for trumped-up pretexts. malthaussen Mar 2014 #24

He should know about invading another country on completely trumped up pretext. Autumn Mar 2014 #26

So Russia's unprovoked war of aggression is OK because some of you think Kerry voted to give Bush stevenleser Mar 2014 #27

It's not "OK" it's just that we don't have a moral leg to stand on to criticize it Fumesucker Mar 2014 #30

Sure we do. We have a moral reason to criticize it. As you said, it's not OK. (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #41

And of course nobody said Russia is justified in invading. Rex Mar 2014 #111

Is indeed amazing that people read into a post dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #119

Yeah that was a LOT of words steven tried to put in peoples mouths! Rex Mar 2014 #121

First, we don't think Kerry voted to give Bush the power to wage an unprovoked and unjustified war, A Simple Game Mar 2014 #60

No, he didn't. I know some of you are heavily invested in that belief, but it isn't true. stevenleser Mar 2014 #64

Kerry voted yes, please deny it again. A Simple Game Mar 2014 #70

I expect that kind of superficial analysis from the Freepers, not from DUers. The analysis is here stevenleser Mar 2014 #73

I didn't think you would deny how he voted, you can't. A Simple Game Mar 2014 #108

I know you are so invested in an incorrect version of events you dont want to know the truth. stevenleser Mar 2014 #141

Of course it's fine. I think Kerry made a mistake by voting yes. A Simple Game Mar 2014 #148

The Russians think they've been provoked pscot Mar 2014 #75

Fail! No one is saying it is ok because of Kerry. L0oniX Mar 2014 #63

The old guard dogs seem to be losing their eyesight. Rex Mar 2014 #110

Nice projection there steven. Rex Mar 2014 #109

I'm the one consistent here. You are the one trying to assert a war crime is ok in one instance and stevenleser Mar 2014 #142

it bring to mind bush decrying russian incursion into georgia. KG Mar 2014 #28

That is so very rich, Mr. "I voted for the Iraq war" John Kerry Oilwellian Mar 2014 #29

Precisely. jsr Mar 2014 #32

Except that logic doesnt really work. stevenleser Mar 2014 #31

You need to get with the program BeyondGeography Mar 2014 #57

LMAO, exactly. Because of that a war crime by Russia/Putin now is OK, of course. stevenleser Mar 2014 #61

Maybe we can find a prison cell for Putin ...and Bush. L0oniX Mar 2014 #65

But it's OK when we do it. RC Mar 2014 #33

well qazplm Mar 2014 #38

Well stated. +10 (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #45

It is never OK when anyone does it. RC Mar 2014 #56

Of course it's OK when we do it. That's American exceptionalism. Jack Rabbit Mar 2014 #67

How long after Iraq do we get to start using diplomacy to stop wars of aggression? NuclearDem Mar 2014 #34

Not to mention that the guy we have as President was not in favor of that war. Why should he stevenleser Mar 2014 #39

Oh he can and indeed must protest, that isn't the gist of the dialog here though. TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #134

The fact that the pot is calling the kettle black doesn't mean that the kettle isn't black. 1monster Mar 2014 #35

Excellent way of putting it, even if one temporarily accepts the premise of the OP. nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #42

I'm confused...do people think Putin is a saint or some representative of democracy? Rex Mar 2014 #116

How do I call Putin a saint?! 1monster Mar 2014 #123

No not you, I thought you meant there are people here calling Putin a saint. Rex Mar 2014 #127

The irony is that progressives realize the hypocrisy of such statements, the republicans and right lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #36

Blood thirst is blinding. L0oniX Mar 2014 #53

I think many progressives are missing the greater irony. I think it is much more important to be stevenleser Mar 2014 #54

Did you get that from the Onion? ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #40

I thought Blazing Saddles Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 #55

I'm gad you got the joke. ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #95

As I said, it was from Kerry, on Meet the Press. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #83

I thought you would realize I was joking... ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #94

sorry..my radar is off today. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #98

It's okay. ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #99

It's the BFEE's fault!!!! nt greytdemocrat Mar 2014 #44

Meet the Press = Meet the Moran L0oniX Mar 2014 #50

Ah. So we should just STFU and never speak out on world events again... NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #58

because I addressed Kerry's remarks does not mean I limit hpocrisy to just Bush. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #112

Yes, I know. NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #115

But..but...we got involved for their own good...wellll...kinda...maybe...never mind. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #122

"And it didn't cost us a penny dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #131

Yeah, there is that. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #146

Did someone mention my name? trusty elf Mar 2014 #59

Help me I am confused, I thought American RW liked Putin. gordianot Mar 2014 #72

The ironies and hypocrisies seem to abound here. I think you start from the biggest crime and work stevenleser Mar 2014 #78

THANK YOU for doing the heavy lifting in this thread Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #88

It's twilight zone time on DU with huge support for an unprovoked war of aggression... stevenleser Mar 2014 #100

That's rich. City Lights Mar 2014 #76

No, you don't say. LisaL Mar 2014 #77

so he should just let Netanyahu do JI7 Mar 2014 #80

Bush II Did The Same - Right, America Has Forgotten Already cantbeserious Mar 2014 #81

I think pretty much everyone here will agree that what Bush did was a war crime but Drale Mar 2014 #82

Crimea was a part of Russia for quite some time before Khrushchev (who was Ukrainian) gave it LisaL Mar 2014 #85

remember the "red line in the sand" with Syria? dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #87

But you hurt our American feelings by pointing out the rank hypocrisy Rex Mar 2014 #114

Reading Orwell's Notes on Nationalism will explain this all to you stevenleser Mar 2014 #90

Of course you did. Rex Mar 2014 #113

Our moral standing on this was drowned in the Gulf of Tonkin. K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #84

they've lost all shame and think they're invincible. yurbud Mar 2014 #97

I gotta give it to you, John... MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #101

Recommend... KoKo Mar 2014 #147

He's right, despite the irony. blackspade Mar 2014 #103

Yes he is right. Rex Mar 2014 #118

Did anyone ask him about Iraq and Dubya and why no charges yet? Rex Mar 2014 #107

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #133

Good call jimlup Mar 2014 #137

Just because you write sarcasm under it, does not mean it isn't true. Donald Ian Rankin Mar 2014 #145

Bush invaded Iraq on grounds that Iraq had WMDs...remember? dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #152

I'm not a supporter of Russia's action here, but Kerry saying that makes me cringe penultimate Mar 2014 #151

It's amazing Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2014 #153