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In reply to the discussion: What is your opinion about Marxism? [View all]DireStrike
(6,452 posts)64. This may be a terminology issue. The end goal is what's important.
Do you think that nothing is Marxism unless it subverts the capitalist state by way of radical worker revolution and the total abolition of capital?
The total abolition of privately controlled productive capital (or the goal of accomplishing this) is necessary for a society to be Marxist. You cannot end worker exploitation unless the workers control the means of production. Leaving significant sectors of the economy in private hands just undermines the whole society.
Many social democrats think a civil society can persist indefinitely so long as you have capitalism and a robust welfare state. They are also often unaware of the pressures inherent in capitalism that cause the destruction of the welfare state (as they must be, to hold the opinion I just set forth.) They lack a clear goal for the long term other than keeping things in "balance".
They are called reformists or social democrats, depending on who you talk to.
Does their approach work? I think it may be possible to defeat capitalism by means of slow reform... provided that reform outpaces the tendency of capitalism to cannibalize all societal resources. Historically it hasn't worked, but then historically nothing has worked. I'm of the opinion that when push comes to shove, the capitalists always get violent. But I can work with reformists. As long as they want to end capitalism, ultimately, and not just moderate it with some giveaways to the workers (which will eventually be taken away.)
Workers' collectives are subject to the same market forces that cause traditional employers to pay their employees less and less. The only difference is that the workers in a collective will be forced to pay themselves less and less.
I'm afraid I'm using other peoples' arguments at this point though. I've only read a bit of "Capital", but it seems to me that if the labor theory of value holds any weight, what I've said in this post is inescapably Marxist.
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How does it lead to inefficient economic models that make everyone poor?
Gravitycollapse
Mar 2014
#12
Capitalism serves to produce at whatever cost, regardless of actual demand.
Gravitycollapse
Mar 2014
#17
There are alternative explanations for the failure of certain states than "Marxism doesn't work"
DireStrike
Mar 2014
#40
It is the most important collection of socio-economic theory in human history.
Gravitycollapse
Mar 2014
#10
The same people who decry Marxist totalitarianism are perfectly OK with corporatist totalitarianism.
baldguy
Mar 2014
#19
I honestly didn't know what to expect. I am frankly surprised by both the number who think
Douglas Carpenter
Mar 2014
#31
Not me. Nothing surprises me about the result so far of this poll........
socialist_n_TN
Mar 2014
#45
I don't think they're very democratic at all. Maybe demaGOGIC, based on their tactics here.
DireStrike
Mar 2014
#60
Good at identifying the problem, less so at arriving at a realistic solution.
Tommy_Carcetti
Mar 2014
#32
Yes, the dialectical materialism is somewhat cartoonish and the predictions mostly wrong
Chathamization
Mar 2014
#80
Sometimes useful as an analytical tool, worthless as a source of solutions nt
geek tragedy
Mar 2014
#52
Marxism is the philosophical system responsible for the greatest death toll in human history
kwassa
Mar 2014
#63
Regardless of the variance in the numbers, Marxism still wins in the death category.
kwassa
Mar 2014
#84
Another in a long line of imaginary forces we predicate our decisions and our lives on.
LanternWaste
Mar 2014
#87