General Discussion

ReverendDeuce

(1,643 posts)

163. I think you're right on target...

Mon Mar 3, 2014, 07:51 PM

Mar 2014

The funny thing is, I know a small pack of libertarians and they hate Bitcoin too.

I think it's a fantastic experiment and I hope it's around for a long, long while. Price is up around $100 today alone.

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Bitcoin hate... I don't understand it... ? [View all] ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 OP

My best guess... Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #1

I always assumed, considering the source, that he was talking about Jews. arcane1 Mar 2014 #3

That's an interesting observation. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #9

In a non-Jew context I agree 100% arcane1 Mar 2014 #11

I used to work for a large swiss bank and then switched into auditing. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #15

Exactly. He would know, and he may have had no bias when making that statement. arcane1 Mar 2014 #19

Regardless. I think an examination of Bit Coin will cause people to look behind the curtain at how GoneFishin Mar 2014 #116

Agreed. arcane1 Mar 2014 #117

The actual quote from Ford's book is different, the one given here is not verified Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #125

We were discussing the dog whistling aspect in the subthread above. Democracyinkind Mar 2014 #126

Yes, and I've always like the John Kenneth Galbraith quote: enough Mar 2014 #8

Yes. There's a lot of defensiveness around the whole topic. woo me with science Mar 2014 #53

I also would like an answer to this question. I've never used it, but Bitcoin enough Mar 2014 #2

My speculative theory is that... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #7

The wild fluctuations in value show it has not yet been a medium of exchange muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #25

Not exactly. The insiders can create as much of it as they like. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #29

What insiders? drm604 Mar 2014 #88

You don't think the code can be exploited? BlueStreak Mar 2014 #92

"The unfortunate part is that we may never know exactly how this happened" BlueStreak Mar 2014 #96

Of course they won't say, because it's better to say they don't know than admit incompetence. n/t ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #167

That's one possibility. Three other possibilities are: BlueStreak Mar 2014 #177

I don't think you understand how Bitcoin works... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #106

Have you paid any attention to the hacker world the last 25 years? BlueStreak Mar 2014 #108

That's just ignorance on display... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #138

Even though it was all on public display (as open source) BlueStreak Mar 2014 #146

Oh, come down from your perch... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #148

So I have your personal guarantee that no hacker will figure out a clever way BlueStreak Mar 2014 #151

What highly successful attacks weren't supposed to be possible? DanTex Mar 2014 #158

Yep. Springslips Mar 2014 #173

Buffer overruns, e.g. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #188

Those are examples of software vulnerabilities, not breaches of cryptography. DanTex Mar 2014 #193

My point was simply that it is unwise to be over-confident BlueStreak Mar 2014 #197

It's also important to realize that the cryptography is secure. DanTex Mar 2014 #201

Cryptography is 1% of the system. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #208

If there are "many examples", then you shouldn't have a problem naming one. DanTex Mar 2014 #209

Here are 2 I pulled up in 5 seconds. I used The Google. That is really cool. Try it. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #210

Umm, none of those are examples of the encryption being broken. DanTex Mar 2014 #215

The point is encryption never lives alone. The system is vulnerable. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #217

Which is why it is important to understand what the vulnerabilities actually are. DanTex Mar 2014 #218

Then why has the bitcoin exchanges lost coins ... do you believe in magic ... MindMover Mar 2014 #203

The code itself is almost laughably simple. sir pball Mar 2014 #185

You may be wrong about your 50% claim. So says MIT. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #199

So it is kind of like S&H stamps or coupons that you use at the grocery store. madinmaryland Mar 2014 #54

You can use them that way in some places in the EU, or here in the US using gyft.com n/t ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #166

It's air. It's a bubble. It is backed by NOTHING. aquart Mar 2014 #43

It's backed by the same thing Federal Reserve Nots are, TransitJohn Mar 2014 #105

Slight bit of difference there, John jmowreader Mar 2014 #119

But not the credit of the United States. aquart Mar 2014 #134

I know little about it or how it works, so I have no opinion at this time. arcane1 Mar 2014 #4

Well, to me it's the same as using money... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #12

It seems like it would be fun if I had mined them myself. arcane1 Mar 2014 #21

Not if the value can drop 30% is a week. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #32

Where do you invest your bitcoins? joeglow3 Mar 2014 #47

Well, you could hold them... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #137

That is my concern with bitcoins as a currency joeglow3 Mar 2014 #141

I literally just said you can do that... ? ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #145

I don't invest in dollars. I invest WITH dollars joeglow3 Mar 2014 #147

Banking in established currencies provides wealth for many millions closeupready Mar 2014 #5

Well, that isn't what happened. This was a criminal enterprise. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #17

If it's different, you have to kill it instead of understand it. n/t Whisp Mar 2014 #6

Jealousy. Loudly Mar 2014 #10

Oh, I have not been able to mine my own for quite some time... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #16

Yes, I see a 1 terra hash miner available for $12,000. Loudly Mar 2014 #23

I prefer to use clam shells, buttons and bottle caps. L0oniX Mar 2014 #13

It isn't hate. It is seeing the bigger picture. Let me offer a metaphor BlueStreak Mar 2014 #14

But it can be audited... the ledger is 100% public. ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #20

So you have solved he crime already? I am impressed. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #24

Quite the little advocate aren't you? TeamPooka Mar 2014 #30

not hate. incredulity. arely staircase Mar 2014 #18

virtual lol TeamPooka Mar 2014 #31

To be fair, US currency is virtual as well. ZombieHorde Mar 2014 #110

Full faith and credit of the US Govenrment as opposed to arely staircase Mar 2014 #111

Well, it is an unrelgulated purely virtual currency stored on computers susceptible to hacking. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #22

Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play? BlueStreak Mar 2014 #27

You and okaaywhatever crack me up Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #51

How do I "like" this post? Bucky Mar 2014 #212

i hope bitcoin catches on usa liberal Mar 2014 #26

No taxes, something that is normally anathema to Democratic principles. randome Mar 2014 #39

Taxes are not tied to the currency paid. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #81

There are no IRS determinations on bitcoins. randome Mar 2014 #84

The payment of taxes is no more voluntary Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #93

How will the IRS know you have unreported income pnwmom Mar 2014 #102

The same way they know if you have unreported barter income. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #113

Except there is the question of scale. People talk about bitcoin substituting for banks. pnwmom Mar 2014 #115

There are people who create local currency for bartering Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #121

They're just tulips for nerds. And a ponzi scheme for nerds. pnwmom Mar 2014 #122

The person I know personally who has been involved with bitcoins Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #127

It may be taxable but it is easily hide-able. That's why it's being used for pnwmom Mar 2014 #101

Like I said in another post - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #114

For one, online currencies such as eGold and Bitcoin are exceptionally useful for the purposes Maedhros Mar 2014 #64

Liberals believe in progressive taxation, and bitcoin facilitates tax evasion. pnwmom Mar 2014 #100

I really don't get it, either. X_Digger Mar 2014 #28

Paypal is subject to intense audits. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #34

Which is neither here nor there, re the value or validity of a digital currency. X_Digger Mar 2014 #38

Integrity of currency is neither here nor there? Say what? BlueStreak Mar 2014 #46

It is a real currency if people are trading other things of value for them. X_Digger Mar 2014 #48

I think most people here DO understand we have a fiat currency BlueStreak Mar 2014 #50

You seem hung up on that term, as if only 'fiat currency' is 'real'. X_Digger Mar 2014 #58

No. I already agreed they were both ffiat currencies. The difference is BlueStreak Mar 2014 #60

Err.. bitcoins aren't a fiat currency. There is no government running on bitcoins. n/t X_Digger Mar 2014 #61

It most certainly is a fiat currency BlueStreak Mar 2014 #63

If you say so. *shrug* X_Digger Mar 2014 #66

You aren't going to address the substantive issues, are you? BlueStreak Mar 2014 #68

It's not a fiat currency. DanTex Mar 2014 #69

Nonsense. Fiat means it is simply declared to exist BlueStreak Mar 2014 #73

No one has responded to my point about taxes, either. randome Mar 2014 #74

Likely because most people don't understand taxes. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #83

The IRS is still studying this issue and has issued no regulations. randome Mar 2014 #85

The regulations would address whether it is treated as a currency or a commodity Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #87

So those who have bitcoins, are you paying some form of taxes on them? randome Mar 2014 #89

I don't have bitcoins - but it is a rare year Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #94

Money laundering is a favored activity, too. randome Mar 2014 #90

I was only addressing your assertion that there were "no taxes" Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #95

Here is the proof that this was all a Ponzi scheme from the start. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #77

Paul Krugman: "fiat money is backed by men with guns, bitcoin is not" DanTex Mar 2014 #80

Nope. At least not according to INVESTOPEDIA.... MADem Mar 2014 #202

Technically, yes, it is a real currency. DanTex Mar 2014 #67

My only exposure to it is a couple sites I know who have it as a payment option. X_Digger Mar 2014 #91

People hated my Pets.com stock too and I never understood it Johonny Mar 2014 #33

Exactly. And this isn't exactly a new concept. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #35

Did you report your income on your tax returns? randome Mar 2014 #36

Did you pay FICA taxes? State taxes? randome Mar 2014 #37

I've never read a comprehensible explanation of bitcoin "mining" kestrel91316 Mar 2014 #40

And we complain about the rich avoiding taxes. randome Mar 2014 #41

Nah, it's just some majorly deep cryptography. sir pball Mar 2014 #187

I'll stop pestering you after this, Reverend. randome Mar 2014 #42

And I'm the opposite Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #44

Explain bitcoin mining in simple terms, if you can Corruption Inc Mar 2014 #45

Mining is the creation of virtual coins BlueStreak Mar 2014 #49

What do those complex calculations DO? kestrel91316 Mar 2014 #52

It is not a crime. It is how the system works BlueStreak Mar 2014 #56

The system that was designed to hyper-inflate BlueStreak Mar 2014 #59

It's very hard to take your (reasonable) thoughts seriously when you're backwards on "inflation". sir pball Mar 2014 #182

I should have clarified I was talking about the value of each coin inflating BlueStreak Mar 2014 #186

I did understand what you meant, literally, but since you're talking economics.. sir pball Mar 2014 #189

There are numerous problems that will catch up with it, I think BlueStreak Mar 2014 #190

I remember Mondex.. sir pball Mar 2014 #192

If the technology is "digital cash" (like Mondex) rathern than a separate monetary system BlueStreak Mar 2014 #196

BITCOIN UNOCKED Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #142

Here: jsr Mar 2014 #75

What BlueStreak said minus the vitriol is correct... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #76

Cost and value are not related in economics. mbperrin Mar 2014 #129

The big winners are the early insiders who dealt themselves millions of coins BlueStreak Mar 2014 #191

No smoking in any jail in Texas. mbperrin Mar 2014 #220

Just reminds me too much of some friends in the 80s who were doing some bartering stuff. Gidney N Cloyd Mar 2014 #55

You got in near the beginning and so you're a beneficiary of the ponzi scheme. pnwmom Mar 2014 #57

But how is it a ponzi scheme? Nobody is "at the top"... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #78

How do you think Mt Gox was working when almost all of its bitcoins had been stolen pnwmom Mar 2014 #97

They had a wallet of coins and had people double-withdrawing... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #98

They've known for some time their bitcoins were missing and yet they were taking pnwmom Mar 2014 #99

"inexplicably" lol. Don't think that is the right word. nt. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #198

Makes MtGox the Ponzi, with BTC as the money. sir pball Mar 2014 #184

You 'mined' by running a useless computer program muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #136

You sound jealous... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #180

It's not an 'investment'; it's a bet on how many people will follow you muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #181

Horse apples ahoy! ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #194

You're a speculator, like a Wall St. banker betting on the fall of a stock muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #200

I am speculating? Nonsense! This is an investment that required no upfront capital. ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #205

You really are sounding like those 1%er op-eds muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #207

Poster does not get it PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #206

Looks like it is starting to unravel joeglow3 Mar 2014 #223

It might be because when I pulled a dollar from my wallet it says, TexasTowelie Mar 2014 #62

I don't know about "hate" but... DanTex Mar 2014 #65

Explain why you answer "no" to both of your questions. n/t ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #79

OK. I'll start with the second question. DanTex Mar 2014 #82

Very well said. mbperrin Mar 2014 #130

The exchange rate for Bitcoins is inherently unstable William Seger Mar 2014 #70

The systemic bias (by design) was hyper-inflation BlueStreak Mar 2014 #86

Actually, its trending towards stabilization - although a bit downward... TampaAnimusVortex Mar 2014 #103

"That said, I think that bitcoin is still going to be really volatile." William Seger Mar 2014 #109

Actually the chart does show increasing stability... TampaAnimusVortex Mar 2014 #132

"Increasing stability" compared to its ridiculously unstable past? William Seger Mar 2014 #133

Thats a bit of a high bar to set... TampaAnimusVortex Mar 2014 #135

"Bitcoin's problems are much worse than you thought" William Seger Mar 2014 #159

Pointless TampaAnimusVortex Mar 2014 #170

So, you'd like to change the subject William Seger Mar 2014 #178

The chart shows quite a bit of volatility. DanTex Mar 2014 #144

There's a lot you haven't heard about bitcoin I'm sure... TampaAnimusVortex Mar 2014 #149

Not really. I understand it pretty well. DanTex Mar 2014 #152

So the fact you responded so quickly means... TampaAnimusVortex Mar 2014 #153

Well, you did say "watch a few minutes". DanTex Mar 2014 #154

Demographically, three of DU's favorite Dwarfs are named "Cranky" "Codger" and "Ned Ludd" Warren DeMontague Mar 2014 #71

Beanie Babies hate...I don't understand it? nt MADem Mar 2014 #72

I've read several articles that implied it's being used to launder drug money. Also that it's just OregonBlue Mar 2014 #104

I'm trying to wrap my head around this... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Mar 2014 #107

I've got questions about Bitcoin. wercal Mar 2014 #112

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #118

The bitcoin foundation does not control the ledger or pay bandwidth for it. DanTex Mar 2014 #120

It's not hate, hell if it was not for Bitcoin and their direct link to malware Rex Mar 2014 #123

hate? i don't hate bitcoins, but they they make it easier to laugh at my libertarian buddy who dionysus Mar 2014 #124

The word you might be looking for is not 'hate' but 'apathy'. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #128

I don't care if you like it. I am curious why people hate it. n/t ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #140

So you have no reasons to offer as to why anyone should like it? Apathy means 'don't care' Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #143

Bitcoin supportters usually have invested alot and can't believe it's gone. CK_John Mar 2014 #131

You mean Mt.Gox supporters... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #139

Those who keep their bitcoin in their own wallets have NOTHING. tridim Mar 2014 #157

I have Bitcoin in my own wallet and I can convert it to USD in about 15 seconds... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #160

Given that it takes 10 minutes for bitcoin transactions to clear, this is unlikely... DanTex Mar 2014 #169

Unless you really know what you're doing, keeping bitcoins in your own wallet is a bad idea. DanTex Mar 2014 #168

A song from the 80s comes to mind when Bitcoin is discussed. Now what was it called...? randome Mar 2014 #150

That ain't workin...that's the way we do it!!! MADem Mar 2014 #204

Seems to me... NCTraveler Mar 2014 #155

I hate it because it's an obvious pyramid scheme that people take seriously. tridim Mar 2014 #156

How does it resemble a pyramid scheme? This I'd love to hear... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #161

I think it's mostly ignorance and jealousy. DesMoinesDem Mar 2014 #162

I think you're right on target... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #163

lol. Sucker. nt tridim Mar 2014 #164

Sucker? Bitcoin gained another $20 against the USD overnight... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #165

This statement alone is why I'm against it....instability. cbdo2007 Mar 2014 #179

So Paul Krugman is ignorant and jealous? DanTex Mar 2014 #171

A good personal rule of mine Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #175

hate it? no rdking647 Mar 2014 #172

MAYBE just maybe if the creator had not used a fake name when he started bitcoin Drew Richards Mar 2014 #174

It is distrust liberalmuse Mar 2014 #176

What I don't get is how Bitcoin even looks like a pyramid scheme... ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #195

People give an entity real money... liberalmuse Mar 2014 #213

Here are some articles that answer that for you. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #216

Ponzi scheme hate... I do not understand it... ? PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #183

I hear Charles Ponzi was a very nice guy BlueStreak Mar 2014 #214

The implosion continues BlueStreak Mar 2014 #211

What implosion? Value is still up today... nt ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #222

One experience from my mom made me dislike it sakabatou Mar 2014 #219

Hate comes from fear Marrah_G Mar 2014 #221