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spin

(17,493 posts)
83. True, firearms never are used for legitimate self defense....
Wed Mar 5, 2014, 02:49 AM
Mar 2014

and if they are, it would have been far better if the victim was unarmed and had to spend months in a hospital recovering from the injuries or ended up in a casket.



How Often Do We Use Guns in Self-Defense?
By Paul Barrett December 27, 2012

***snip***

If guns have a countervailing benefit—that lawful firearm owners frequently or even occasionally use guns to defend themselves and their loved ones—then determining how aggressively to curb private possession becomes a more complicated proposition.

As with everything else concerning guns in this country, the DGU question prompts divergent answers. At one end of the spectrum, the NRA cites research by Gary Kleck, an accomplished criminologist at Florida State University. Based on self-reporting by survey respondents, Kleck has extrapolated that DGU occurs more than 2 million times a year. Kleck doesn’t suggest that gun owners shoot potential antagonists that often. DGU covers various scenarios, including merely brandishing a weapon and scaring off an aggressor.

At the other end of the spectrum, gun skeptics prefer to cite the work of David Hemenway, an eminent public-health scholar at Harvard University. Hemenway, who analogizes gun violence to an epidemic and guns to the contagion, argues that Kleck’s research significantly overestimates the frequency of DGU.

The carping back and forth gets pretty technical, but the brief version is that Hemenway believes Kleck includes too many “false positives”: respondents who claim they’ve chased off burglars or rapists with guns but probably are boasting or, worse, categorizing unlawful aggressive conduct as legitimate DGU. Hemenway finds more reliable an annual federal government research project, called the National Crime Victimization Survey, which yields estimates in the neighborhood of 100,000 defensive gun uses per year. Making various reasonable-sounding adjustments, other social scientists have suggested that perhaps a figure somewhere between 250,000 and 370,000 might be more accurate....emphasis added
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use-guns-in-self-defense


There is absolutely no doubt that all too often firearms are misused and tragedy results. That's one side of the debate. There is also no doubt that firearms can be and are used to stop violent attacks. That's the other side of the debate.

If you were a powerful sorcerer you might have the ability to develop a magic spell that would render all firearms, except those in the hands of authorities, inoperable in our nation. I have no doubt that if you waved your magic wand and the spell took effect, firearm crime would cease.

If so, the criminal element would not be all that concerned as they would simply attack the weaker members of our society without fear. (I suspect many criminals are strong gun control advocates. Firearms in the hands of honest citizens pose a significant workplace safety hazard for many in the violent criminal profession.)

But of course sorcery is a lost art in our modern society. There is no way that you could ban and confiscate all the firearms in our nation. Even if you managed to pass the necessary laws to do so, many citizens would simply refuse to comply. I have often heard of many people who fear that an attempt will be made to disarm America and have stored caches of weapons and ammunition just in case it might happen. (Of course I have never met such people.)

The solution is not to ban all guns. In my opinion the solution is for both sides of the debate to accept the fact that the argument of the other side has some validity and to work to find compromise that will help insure that firearm ownership in our nation is limited to honest, sane and responsible people as much as is possible. There is no way we can eliminate all gun violence in our nation but we could do far better than we are today.

I feel this will never happen as long as some on the gun control side insist the solution is to ban all firearms. I had great hope that we would see some real improvement to our national gun laws this year after the tragedy at the Sandy Hook Elementary School. The poison pill that ruined that possibility was the insistence by those in the gun control movement that we pass another assault weapons ban at the national level.





Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Goens is right there, whipping up the hysteria. TheCowsCameHome Mar 2014 #1
An anti-Democratic, billh58 Mar 2014 #6
Read again, this is a Democrate written and pushed law. oneshooter Mar 2014 #9
This is a "Democrate" written and pushed law? billh58 Mar 2014 #10
Do you agree with the law as written? n/t oneshooter Mar 2014 #12
Yes. n/t billh58 Mar 2014 #13
Yeah, it's remarkably similar to the one I fought for here in CT. n/t Chan790 Mar 2014 #51
Reading is hard. linuxman Mar 2014 #11
Democrate? Scootaloo Mar 2014 #53
Why do you need more than ten rounds? mwrguy Mar 2014 #2
The rifles i question are 22 rim fire. oneshooter Mar 2014 #3
Rimfire rounds won't kill a child? mwrguy Mar 2014 #4
You really need to read closer. oneshooter Mar 2014 #7
Those .22s are bolt action. NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #14
From the link in the OP: billh58 Mar 2014 #15
There is no specification of semi-auto oneshooter Mar 2014 #23
(4) A semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding [15] 10 rounds. NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #26
I think it is limited to semi-auto: the definition of "assault firearm" is what's being petronius Mar 2014 #27
are they talking internal or external mags here? the NY laws here are for external only. dionysus Mar 2014 #42
you aren't going to respond to post #26 are you? snooper2 Mar 2014 #93
back up proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #72
In case there are 11 invaders. n/t TheCowsCameHome Mar 2014 #5
This seems to be the bill in question: petronius Mar 2014 #8
Most fixed magazine firearms are bolt or lever action. NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #17
Remington speedmaster 552, etc. n/t X_Digger Mar 2014 #18
Then I would recommend that they add the word "centerfire". NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #20
This is New Jersey. The morons banned hollow point bullets. X_Digger Mar 2014 #29
Many, maybe most, but not all, right? Isn't the Marlin Model 60 an example petronius Mar 2014 #19
Obviously they need to make a distinction for centerfire vs rimfire. NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #21
not new at all proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #76
I wonder how many tube fed .22 semi-auto rifles are used in crimes? Jenoch Mar 2014 #22
They are not being targeted. The author probably didn't know about them. NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #30
Too often the people writing these gun regulations Jenoch Mar 2014 #35
Not many rifles of any kind are used in crimes proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #74
I did know that. Jenoch Mar 2014 #81
the M-1 is semi automatic but has an internal magazine, as opposed to those crappy AR-15s dionysus Mar 2014 #44
That is your opinion proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #77
opinions are all about personal preference. dionysus Mar 2014 #92
good for n.j. PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #16
Why? n/t oneshooter Mar 2014 #24
They might save a few kids lives, that's why. RobertEarl Mar 2014 #48
How? Is there something especially deadly about rounds 11-15? friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #58
You can't count? RobertEarl Mar 2014 #59
A name you should research: Seng-Hui Cho friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #63
See? You are right RobertEarl Mar 2014 #64
"But lives just aren't as important as guns" PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #66
Repeal the Second Amendment, and we'll talk. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #68
rude PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #69
If you didn't want it commented upon, don't post it on a discussion board friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #73
Well then, get busy repealing the Second Amendment friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #67
That's right RobertEarl Mar 2014 #70
No. "Compromise" to you lot means "We'll only try to take away guns slowly,... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #71
Don't forget physical confiscation of 300 million that already exist .. Lost_Count Mar 2014 #87
True, firearms never are used for legitimate self defense.... spin Mar 2014 #83
Smart election year politics - puts Christie on the spot. Nt hack89 Mar 2014 #25
Outrageous! With all those traffic jams in NJ, one needs to shoot off joeybee12 Mar 2014 #28
This Token Republican Mar 2014 #31
good. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #39
Only a paranoid gun nut would oppose this law. SecularMotion Mar 2014 #32
And why is that? Abq_Sarah Mar 2014 #34
Not every single firearm owner is a paranoid gun nut SecularMotion Mar 2014 #36
Not every single gun control advocate is paranoid about gun owners friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #40
magazines. They want to take your over-capacity magazines. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #33
Justify Token Republican Mar 2014 #37
was i unclear? i dont want one round magazines. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #38
I'd like to thank you and your fellow Prohibitionists for coming clean about what you want friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #41
what i want and what ill settle for are two different things. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #43
The laws I support are also 'reasonable', yet conflict with what *you* want friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #50
oh horseshit. Warren Stupidity Mar 2014 #91
Thanks Token Republican Mar 2014 #46
For the record SecularMotion Mar 2014 #47
The Record Token Republican Mar 2014 #49
You've already broken one of your rules by discussing guns. SecularMotion Mar 2014 #55
Nope Token Republican Mar 2014 #57
We have our share of right wing gun nuts here. SecularMotion Mar 2014 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #65
They disagree with you, therefore they're right wing. Suuure... friendly_iconoclast Mar 2014 #75
You do like to go there when you are not doing well in a discussion. proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #80
You need to find a right wing discussion board that agrees with your radical right wing views SecularMotion Mar 2014 #82
Look at what the cops carry. proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #79
What standard are you citing? proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #78
That's what the "common sense gun control" push has been about all along. Skip Intro Mar 2014 #45
We favor it... Chan790 Mar 2014 #52
Any links to polls? Skip Intro Mar 2014 #56
You are aware of how liberal CT is, right? Chan790 Mar 2014 #60
Thanks. Skip Intro Mar 2014 #62
Two words from you OP convinced me AgingAmerican Mar 2014 #54
Good news. bravenak Mar 2014 #84
Sounds good to me. Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #85
Good. nt laundry_queen Mar 2014 #86
Great news! k&r B Calm Mar 2014 #88
good to hear n/t Euphoria Mar 2014 #89
Good, you don't need more than 10 anyway. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #90
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