I refuse to be baited on gender issues

[brett_jv]

179. Wow, things have gotten pretty friggin' meta around here lately ...

I didn't actually join that long ago but I've been a lurker here literally since the days of Bush v. Gore, and I don't remember it ever being so noticeable as it has been since, well ... around when I joined.

Maybe actually joining and participating gives you a different perspective, but ... it sure seems like the level of whinging about 'how other DU'ers talk/act/think' is at an all-time high, verging on a critical mass.

I have to say I much preferred this place during GWB's occupation vs. what I've seen in the last 5 years. I think places like DU must need a 'common enemy' to really 'function properly' ... otherwise, shit seems to devolve into infighting.

Not trying to devalue your complaint Cali just making an observation as someone who's been around this site for 12 years ... I just find it all very discouraging.

To sum up my view on this particular topic: Perhaps it's best to allow in one's own worldview (if you will) for the fact that there's GOING to be males, even liberal ones, who really lack a firm grasp of 'women's issues' and what it's like ... to be a woman in this world. And how could they? They're simply ... not women.

Also, one might allow for the fact that there's GOING to be males who are at a place in life where they feel like women actually 'have it better', for one reason or another. I've met many men, for example, who feel that the legal system, in particular that which is involved in 'divorce' and 'custody' issues, are very much biased toward women.

Now, *I* know that's probably realistically the ONE SINGLE area where women maybe have some 'advantage', and even then that perception may not always be 'right', but I think some men can end up somewhat bitter towards women (at least for a time) over things related to perceived favoritism (against them) in these arenas.

Women also generally enjoy the 'power', if you will, of deciding whether 'amorous relations' will occur between two people ... and some men, esp. those that've been repeatedly hurt or rejected, may harbor some resentment around being powerless in this regard.

One important thing to understand is that the sorts of perceived 'injuries' that can come into play around these matters can feel every bit as real and legitimate to a given male as the 'legacy of thousands of years of being objectified and merchandised and being categorized as less then' ... can feel for females. And some males will simply react negatively when they perceive their right to their 'grievances' is being usurped or upstaged by 'women's legacy'.

Personally, I walk through life believing (perhaps naively) that everyone around me is trying to 'do the best they can', based on their faculties, education (both institutional and otherwise), perceptions, and experiences. People have their own individual collections of all these things, and everyone's just trying to muddle through, build relationships, find love and intimacy, and some level of joy and comfort in this life, and doing the best they can with what they have to work with.

Perhaps for some men, sad as it may sound, one way to achieve the above goals is to, say for example, ogle the pictures of beautiful women in bikinis, and discuss their appreciation with other guys (since, iirc, that subject is kinda what brought to the forefront this whole 'meta' topic that's been going on here the past weeks, right?).

If I was to hazard a guess, there are probably some who are confused as to why this is so 'clearly wrong' as some women have made it out to be? They're likely thinking "Why can't the ladies here, upon seeing an 'SI Swimsuit Issue' thread, simply avoid it, since it is of no interest to them? It's not as though the space here on DU is limited, such that such a thread crowds out others abilities to post what THEY would like to discuss, right?".

Now, I'm not trying to put words in anyone's mouth, and personally, I never saw or participated in the original SI thread (and only seen a few of the 'fallout threads') that's caused such a rift in this community of late, but I am a male, and as such, I know how many males think. And I can assure you that, right or wrong (probably the latter), some of them have their individual reasons for sincerely believing that 'women in general' don't 'have it any worse' ... than THEY personally do.

Thus, it's not hard for me to imagine that certain males in this world, many of whom are otherwise good people, just trying to get along and find some happiness like everyone else, simply don't appreciate the judgement and condemnation that's poured forth from the XX portion of the DU population over a thread featuring generally tasteful pictures that only the XY crowd are likely to enjoy. I'd imagine such males would wonder why the XX indignation over this is tantamount to their own right to simply enjoy some photos that make THEM feel like the world is a beautiful place, one where they like to exist in?

And I'd imagine some would justify their attitude by asserting, for example, that they wouldn't dream of hassling the lady DU'ers if they were all ogling, say, a collection of scantily-clad males in the 'The Worlds Hottest Firefighters Calendar, 2014'. As such, they may feel like 'Why are they denigrating ME, when I'd never denigrate THEM for doing (basically) the same thing?'.

IOW, they quite simply DON'T GET ... some things that seem obvious and self-evident ... to many women.

I guess in closing ... and not that this is any great insight ... but regardless of gender, I think the most productive thing one can do in these instances is to try to educate, because condemnation is unlikely to have the desired effect. The underlying 'problem', I think, is ... we can't MAKE people see things the way we believe they should. We have to educate, explain, argue our case. And IMHO the best way to do that is not through ridicule and/or condemnation, it's through understanding what makes the person tick, where they're coming from, what they've been through, and what's caused them believe and perceive things ... the way that they do ... and then try to change that perception through a convincing, non-judgmental argument ... not through a 'I'm right, you're wrong' decree ... which in this particular instance, essentially amounts to a gender-based fiat.