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In reply to the discussion: And Then Kerry Said... [View all]

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
118. Breitbart was good at that too. I mean
Thu Mar 6, 2014, 01:05 AM
Mar 2014

the clip cherry picks quotes to distort the context of his statements. For example, it cites this op-ed.

We Still Have a Choice on Iraq

By John F. Kerry
Published: September 6, 2002

It may well be that the United States will go to war with Iraq. But if so, it should be because we have to -- not because we want to. For the American people to accept the legitimacy of this conflict and give their consent to it, the Bush administration must first present detailed evidence of the threat of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction and then prove that all other avenues of protecting our nation's security interests have been exhausted. Exhaustion of remedies is critical to winning the consent of a civilized people in the decision to go to war. And consent, as we have learned before, is essential to carrying out the mission. President Bush's overdue statement this week that he would consult Congress is a beginning, but the administration's strategy remains adrift.

Regime change in Iraq is a worthy goal. But regime change by itself is not a justification for going to war. Absent a Qaeda connection, overthrowing Saddam Hussein -- the ultimate weapons-inspection enforcement mechanism -- should be the last step, not the first. Those who think that the inspection process is merely a waste of time should be reminded that legitimacy in the conduct of war, among our people and our allies, is not a waste, but an essential foundation of success.

If we are to put American lives at risk in a foreign war, President Bush must be able to say to this nation that we had no choice, that this was the only way we could eliminate a threat we could not afford to tolerate.

In the end there may be no choice. But so far, rather than making the case for the legitimacy of an Iraq war, the administration has complicated its own case and compromised America's credibility by casting about in an unfocused, overly public internal debate in the search for a rationale for war. By beginning its public discourse with talk of invasion and regime change, the administration has diminished its most legitimate justification of war -- that in the post-Sept. 11 world, the unrestrained threat of weapons of mass destruction in the hands of Saddam Hussein is unacceptable and that his refusal to allow in inspectors is in blatant violation of the United Nations 1991 cease-fire agreement that left him in power.

<...>

For the sake of our country, the legitimacy of our cause and our ultimate success in Iraq, the administration must seek advice and approval from Congress, laying out the evidence and making the case. Then, in concert with our allies, it must seek full enforcement of the existing cease-fire agreement from the United Nations Security Council. We should at the same time offer a clear ultimatum to Iraq before the world: Accept rigorous inspections without negotiation or compromise. Some in the administration actually seem to fear that such an ultimatum might frighten Saddam Hussein into cooperating. If Saddam Hussein is unwilling to bend to the international community's already existing order, then he will have invited enforcement, even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act. But until we have properly laid the groundwork and proved to our fellow citizens and our allies that we really have no other choice, we are not yet at the moment of unilateral decision-making in going to war against Iraq.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/06/opinion/we-still-have-a-choice-on-iraq.html


I can cherry pick quotes too, but they do not distort the context of his overall point.

Kerry Says US Needs Its Own 'Regime Change'
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0403-08.htm

KERRY, A SENATOR from Massachusetts, first said Thursday that Rumsfeld should step down, saying he proceeded in Iraq “in an arrogant, inappropriate way that has frankly put America at jeopardy.”

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3087318


And the truth is that George Bush has made America weaker by overextending the armed forces of the United States, overstraining, overstraining our reserves, driving away our allies and running the most arrogant, reckless, inept and ideological foreign policy in the modern history of our country.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/03/se.13.html


<...>

As our government conducts one war and prepares for another, I come here today to make clear that we can do a better job of making our country safer and stronger. We need a new approach to national security - a bold, progressive internationalism that stands in stark contrast to the too often belligerent and myopic unilateralism of the Bush Administration. I offer this new course at a critical moment for the country that we love, and the world in which we live and lead. Thanks to the work and sacrifice of generations who opposed aggression and defended freedom, for others as well as ourselves, America now stands as the world's foremost power. We should be proud: Not since the age of the Romans have one people achieved such preeminence. But we are not Romans; we do not seek an empire. We are Americans, trustees of a vision and a heritage that commit us to the values of democracy and the universal cause of human rights. So while we can be proud, we must be purposeful and mindful of our principles: And we must be patient - aware that there is no such thing as the end of history. With great power, comes grave responsibility.
<...>

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.

http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/issues/kerr012303spfp.html


He also promised America that he would go to war as a last resort.

Those words mean something to me, as somebody who has been in combat. "Last resort." You've got to be able to look in the eyes of families and say to those parents, "I tried to do everything in my power to prevent the loss of your son and daughter."

I don't believe the United States did that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/debatereferee/debate_0930.html


Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

And Then Kerry Said... [View all] WilliamPitt Mar 2014 OP
I wonder if the Georges Bush laughed. grasswire Mar 2014 #1
To be fair ... 1000words Mar 2014 #2
I see what you did there. Fantastic Anarchist Mar 2014 #165
He said it WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #4
"It seems he's against it after being for it before being against it. " ProSense Mar 2014 #7
there are photos to take, wood to chop. life in the New Hampshire wilderness has its challenges Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #24
What was Kerry's position on Bush's illegal invasion based on trumped up lies? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #174
Exactly what I thought.. n/t ReRe Mar 2014 #54
Not real original, and very RW. wisteria Mar 2014 #86
It's so complex, that a decade later we still can't decide why we invaded. progressoid Mar 2014 #103
...but if you watch Rachel tonight, at 9 pm you'll find out more about this. n/t Mira Mar 2014 #168
kerry voted for it. He knew more than me who sits in alaska with a modem yet he1 roguevalley Mar 2014 #169
I'm so seconding every word you are saying! Mira Mar 2014 #173
Impossible for Vietnam Vet Kerry, but not DC Insider Vet Kerry. Cheese4TheRat Mar 2014 #114
Kerry has been for yaers an DC OUTSIDER. mylye2222 Mar 2014 #199
Sow the wind.... n/t Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #3
So Putin laughing at this is sad? ProSense Mar 2014 #5
Are you seriously contending you don't understand the intent of the meme? Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #8
I understand RW handwringing. Is that what you mean? ProSense Mar 2014 #9
I think we all know you understand unwavering party allegiance pretty well. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #21
No, ProSense Mar 2014 #41
I trust Kerry is forwarding this President's position. That is his job. nt babylonsister Mar 2014 #6
Wow. Someone gets it. MADem Mar 2014 #129
And some don't understand irony I guess. cui bono Mar 2014 #178
but William Rivers Pitt said; dionysus Mar 2014 #10
so he was for him before he was against him ................ JI7 Mar 2014 #11
yep. a windsock always knows which way to blow, apparently... dionysus Mar 2014 #12
!! Number23 Mar 2014 #15
Man, that sucked. Aldo Leopold Mar 2014 #39
Yes. We'll never know how much damage could have been undone or spared ourselves from altogether Number23 Mar 2014 #45
The answer my friend is blowing in the wind... sheshe2 Mar 2014 #100
Because some people actually can reevaluate. Cheese4TheRat Mar 2014 #115
Well... Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #20
I was very disappointed when the Democratic Party.... ReRe Mar 2014 #68
Why? Try naming another person in DC who investigated and exposed more govt. corruption than Kerry blm Mar 2014 #158
I had no problem with John Kerry... ReRe Mar 2014 #176
With TeamBush and TeamClinton working against you, it's amazing that Bush STILL had to steal it, blm Mar 2014 #177
Not sure where you're going there, but... ReRe Mar 2014 #179
All kinds of beauties out there to fit any occasion: Whisp Mar 2014 #154
.... greatauntoftriplets Mar 2014 #213
Well done...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #13
Or this: ProSense Mar 2014 #14
Critical thinking tends to do that. rug Mar 2014 #32
Or disingenuous crapping. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #33
You mean disingenous sniping. rug Mar 2014 #34
No, I meant crapping. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #37
Then you missed. rug Mar 2014 #38
I thought you meant fapping. Aldo Leopold Mar 2014 #42
lots of disengenuous fapping takes place on DU for sure Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #46
More in some places than others. rug Mar 2014 #50
I thought all fapping on DU... TeeYiYi Mar 2014 #214
How does pointing out that the US cannot expect to be taken seriously when it says sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #210
How is this even relevant to what he posted above? 1awake Mar 2014 #16
LOL. okay. nt dionysus Mar 2014 #18
Sorry, I know it's Pitt and some people love targeting him. Carry on. nt 1awake Mar 2014 #19
Kerry never delivered this message-how was that relevant to begin with? nt babylonsister Mar 2014 #36
I have no idea babylonsister... I found it a poor attempt. nt 1awake Mar 2014 #40
5 star find, dionysus. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #25
i just did a 3 word site search and picked one link.... i'm sure there's a ton more.... dionysus Mar 2014 #31
regardless. fits well with the thread. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #35
That was before Kerry worked for Obama. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #30
You could quote the rest of it WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #47
i provided the link Will. pointing out your glaring hypocrisy trying to score points with the crowd dionysus Mar 2014 #87
Who did you vote for in 2004? WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #96
Dean primary, Kerry in the general. but i'm not the one dissing the guy you were a hardcore dionysus Mar 2014 #98
I thought it was an ironic, amusing meme. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #104
might as well call it a day then, old timer... dionysus Mar 2014 #106
We all have our crosses to bear. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #109
i highly doubt kerry will make that mistake again, and i doubt you think so either. either way, dionysus Mar 2014 #111
Straw WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #112
+1 I agree entirely with your analysis. MADem Mar 2014 #131
Dude, now you lost me. merrily Mar 2014 #89
"His apologizing for a war vote is totally inadequate." WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #97
Not piling at all on regarding your OP. merrily Mar 2014 #105
Wait, ProSense Mar 2014 #135
Candidate Kerry disapponted more than a few...(Ohio).... Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #49
Is your position that praising a politician in 2003 means you cannot criticize him in 2014? merrily Mar 2014 #56
I think the position is that OP praised even after Iraq vote, but is now mad at diplomacy. JaneyVee Mar 2014 #61
He wanted Kerry to run in 2008: ProSense Mar 2014 #69
So? merrily Mar 2014 #80
Did I respond to you? If you want to dismiss that fact, then ignore comments not directed at you. nt ProSense Mar 2014 #82
Why would I ignore your comment? merrily Mar 2014 #92
P.S. Not dismissing any fact, just trying to understand. merrily Mar 2014 #107
The OP doesn't seem "mad at diplomacy" to me. Seems like a comment on merrily Mar 2014 #70
So you agree that the mockery could go both ways? JaneyVee Mar 2014 #77
Straw man merrily Mar 2014 #79
Whoa! bravenak Mar 2014 #57
Make that a 30 year liberal voting record now. But yeah, lets just mock him instead. JaneyVee Mar 2014 #67
See post #47 WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #75
Talk about hit and run. sheshe2 Mar 2014 #123
Derp. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #128
why is that such a surprise? stupidicus Mar 2014 #76
See post #47. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #85
See post 14 n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #91
Time for a musical interlude.... MADem Mar 2014 #130
What's the controversy? sibelian Mar 2014 #172
The Irony, it Hurts! Martin Eden Mar 2014 #17
Without a doubt, we're paying for Dubya's stupidity.... Adrahil Mar 2014 #22
...reap the *damned* whirlwind. n/t Junkdrawer Mar 2014 #23
Oh are you going to get in trouble for that! JVS Mar 2014 #26
The hypocrisy is astounding. Rec'd n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #27
"you must lead a sad life" Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #28
I have a frowny always. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #83
or are optimists. those still exist. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #93
OK. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #99
Thanks for sharing. She's a cute one. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #102
Fie on frownies! merrily Mar 2014 #160
Introducing a clip of Kerry's speech, Jon Stewart said, merrily Mar 2014 #29
Rachel Maddow described it as a "spit-take moment" the other night. bullwinkle428 Mar 2014 #43
why is everyone acting like Kerry was a mouth piece fore Bush? Seems in 2004 Kerry was Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #48
This? Hissyspit Mar 2014 #53
yep. everyone forgets all of the things in play at that point Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #55
saddam was an asshole, but not a danger to us. putin is an asshole, but not dangerous to us. dionysus Mar 2014 #119
I haven't forgotten anything, and I knew it was all bullshit. Hissyspit Mar 2014 #122
Most of us here knew it was bullshit. Enthusiast Mar 2014 #132
Because they have a narrative to maintain. Rex Mar 2014 #137
23 Senators voted against authorizing Bush to invade Iraq, they were right. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #142
I would not take for granted that merrily Mar 2014 #152
Oh, please, Louise! Like Hissyspit, I haven't forgotten and, since merrily Mar 2014 #150
And, he was briefed on these concerns and believe he was being told the truth in good faith. wisteria Mar 2014 #90
Did you believe the claims of the Bush administration at that time? merrily Mar 2014 #116
The vast majority of Amrricans did believe them Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #147
No one I know believed them. merrily Mar 2014 #149
Well good for you. What knowledge did you have that supported your POV? wisteria Mar 2014 #183
This post is about an ironic statement made in 2014. merrily Mar 2014 #62
A lot of people believe the reason Kerry lost to Bush was he because was too much like him. QuestForSense Mar 2014 #71
no he didn't. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #73
In 2004 QuestForSense Mar 2014 #84
pot, meet kettle blkmusclmachine Mar 2014 #44
Not impressed. He's doing the best he can babylonsister Mar 2014 #51
I dont think it's a hit on Kerry 1awake Mar 2014 #52
then its on all of us for allowing that little motherfucker to stride past Gore into the WH Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #59
That I agree with completely. So much damage done 1awake Mar 2014 #66
Odd. I don't remember being on the Supreme Court in 2000. merrily Mar 2014 #153
We're you in our equivalent if Maidan or Tahrir square? Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #166
I don't think we have an equivalent of Tahrir Square. In fact, I don't merrily Mar 2014 #167
This message was self-deleted by its author Skittles Mar 2014 #60
Not funny at all. He made a horrible faux pas, which I don't know if he madinmaryland Mar 2014 #78
It wasn't a "faux pas" ProSense Mar 2014 #88
Loaded with irony, at least, since Kerry is now the mouthpiece for foreign policy. Orsino Mar 2014 #143
Spare me the nonsense. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #144
Which part was the nonsense? n/t Orsino Mar 2014 #145
No, it would not mean that no American could speak against Bush. merrily Mar 2014 #157
Like I said in the other thread Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #156
Oh, come on, now. Posting it, even twice, does not make it so. merrily Mar 2014 #159
I've never said it was the "only or best possible thing" bullshit Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #162
Um, you said he had to say it or something a lot like it. merrily Mar 2014 #163
Fine...Go apply to be Kerry's new speechwriter, then Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #164
Are you aware that people Isoldeblue Mar 2014 #58
And he has stated he regrets his vote. I know, God forbid people change their JaneyVee Mar 2014 #63
God forbid Will Pitt discuss this, given the evidence he published at the time Hissyspit Mar 2014 #126
paternalistic crap bobduca Mar 2014 #64
Exactly. ProSense Mar 2014 #65
No, it's not. Hissyspit Mar 2014 #125
You know, ProSense Mar 2014 #134
awesome bobduca Mar 2014 #148
I mean he should have done thar already AT THE TIME of the vote. Hissyspit Mar 2014 #180
I'm not going to jump on Kerry for his past votes here ibegurpard Mar 2014 #72
Funny, how ProSense Mar 2014 #81
Thanks, Will. It is interesting to watch heads exploding on both sides of the aisle. madinmaryland Mar 2014 #74
not backing away. clarifying for the dunderheads who didn't listen closely the first time. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #95
In politics, a 'dunderhead' is anyone who thinks folks listen closely and because of that Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #146
Will points out an obvious line of hypocrisy and the usual suspects Rex Mar 2014 #189
You are right. If we cannot call out the hypocrisy of our party members, then we madinmaryland Mar 2014 #194
War of the week. N Korea, Iran, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq..... grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #94
The good thing is that ProSense Mar 2014 #101
No he is not... actually.. he seems a bit jittery, 1awake Mar 2014 #117
i think Will Pitt is building his "DU Cred" with these type of threads JI7 Mar 2014 #108
Thanks for kicking my thread. WilliamPitt Mar 2014 #110
Um, he doesn't need to build cred. Hissyspit Mar 2014 #124
I think he's speaking his mind as evolves as a Human Being..with backlook KoKo Mar 2014 #187
sure grasswire Mar 2014 #203
This message was self-deleted by its author PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #113
Breitbart was good at that too. I mean ProSense Mar 2014 #118
I know, I debated not posting it PowerToThePeople Mar 2014 #120
the things one *learns* on DU grasswire Mar 2014 #121
Our supposed "moral high ground" was drowned in the Gulf of Tonkin. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #127
thank me for kicking your thread! >_< NuttyFluffers Mar 2014 #133
That was a big Duh. Maybe it's time for Kerry and a lot of other politicians Autumn Mar 2014 #136
Hillary needs to "retire" and not run in 2016. Kerry has no plans to run for elected office. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #140
Here you go. Autumn Mar 2014 #141
+100 MBS Mar 2014 #182
SOS Kerry is no longer involved in politics. wisteria Mar 2014 #184
Yeah cause SOS is not a senior political appointment and has nothing Autumn Mar 2014 #200
By sayin " retired from politics" the poster meant mylye2222 Mar 2014 #201
He is no longer an elected official, and he represents the President and the US wisteria Mar 2014 #205
No shit?? Autumn Mar 2014 #209
And it is my opinion that your are uninformed, wisteria Mar 2014 #212
Aww...you made some people get a real sadz! Rex Mar 2014 #138
IKR? I literally LOLed when he said that n/t librechik Mar 2014 #139
Hey, he said "you," not "we." malthaussen Mar 2014 #151
I don't get what's with his bellicose language since becoming KoKo Mar 2014 #155
"You don't invade a country on completely trumped up pre-text" ProSense Mar 2014 #161
Maybe he's building his street creds as a general jsr Mar 2014 #175
What do you think he has been doing? wisteria Mar 2014 #185
Why didn't he say 'anymore' at the end of that? nt duhneece Mar 2014 #170
Where are ProSense Mar 2014 #171
direct plug-back to Cindy Sheehan times on DU. n/t BelgianMadCow Mar 2014 #181
I begin to be REALLY SICK AND TIRED ABOUT KERRY BASHING. mylye2222 Mar 2014 #186
So how does that address the double standard quote in the OP? Rex Mar 2014 #190
No one can force me to NOT participate and read and comment GD either mylye2222 Mar 2014 #191
Yeah I read your OP, can you actually point out any of these people Rex Mar 2014 #192
...I lost to Bush. bigwillq Mar 2014 #188
... ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #196
Kerry's statement was a disgrace. delrem Mar 2014 #193
"You don't invade a country on completely trumped up pre-text" ProSense Mar 2014 #195
Reading the replies in this thread...you would think it was Kerry who invaded Iraq and not Bush Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #197
It was the US that invaded Iraq, not "Bush". delrem Mar 2014 #204
That comment no sense. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #206
+100! wisteria Mar 2014 #208
yes they are ridiculus. I just opened a protest tread. About those often personal critics mylye2222 Mar 2014 #198
You aren't capable of understanding the disgrace of that level of hypocrisy. delrem Mar 2014 #202
No, it's incoherent because it's nonsense. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #207
and then Whisp Mar 2014 #211
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