General Discussion

Octafish

(55,745 posts)

18. If he was, there's a problem. If he wasn't, there's a problem.

Fri Mar 7, 2014, 09:57 AM

Mar 2014

Either way, it's an existential problem for the USA because secret government is un-democratic.

No Oversight means No Accountability and No Responsibility. Those who wield its powers are unaccountable. Those who profit from its actions are unknown.

Want to see what 62 years of secret government have got us? Look around -- permanent wars, rich banks and broke people.

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Obama knew CIA secretly monitored intelligence committee, Sen. Udall claims [View all] Octafish Mar 2014 OP

It's ALL a big deal. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #1

Udall and Wyden were pretty much alone before Snowden made headlines. Octafish Mar 2014 #16

and obvious who is working for who. Great post. nt Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #25

Excellent post, Octafish. I do not understand how ANYONE who calls themselves and American, can even sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #89

Probably (nt) bigwillq Mar 2014 #2

If he was, there's a problem. If he wasn't, there's a problem. Octafish Mar 2014 #18

AMEN...and AMEN MindMover Mar 2014 #76

Fascists with the Rainbow Coaltion of Racists 1%er's of Fundamental Greed-neo-lib's/ Third Way=Third bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #100

The Shadow Government must keep a watchful eye Downwinder Mar 2014 #3

They will know where to find us when they round us up Enthusiast Mar 2014 #4

If you look around there are some that they cannot find. Downwinder Mar 2014 #5

Secret Government is Democracy's most pressing problem. Octafish Mar 2014 #46

The tail wagging the dog. Evidenced by the increased militarization Downwinder Mar 2014 #55

It's a given. jsr Mar 2014 #73

Shockingly, Udall is Third Way. joshcryer Mar 2014 #6

None of them are clean. sibelian Mar 2014 #7

CIA spied on US Senate oversight committee Octafish Mar 2014 #51

The quote provided does not say what you and the Guardian claim it says. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #8

No mistake, Udall is to whom the headline refers. Octafish Mar 2014 #9

The article's title claims something Udall's quote does not allege. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #12

Damn! Way to go a thousand miles around to avoid the point which is the rogue nature of the security TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #10

The article is trying to hype the story while misleading readers. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #11

The title has nothing to do ProSense Mar 2014 #14

Its a great example of why I don't trust the Guardian's reporting. nt JoePhilly Mar 2014 #15

+1 n/t FSogol Mar 2014 #17

+1...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #29

+1, Obama had nothing to do with the spying itself uponit7771 Mar 2014 #36

Right, that we know about. And the whistleblowers. Octafish Mar 2014 #48

The Guardian did its job. randome Mar 2014 #33

Yeah, it's weird behavior fascisthunter Mar 2014 #32

I agree with Joe Philly creeksneakers2 Mar 2014 #78

+1 nt bunnies Mar 2014 #30

+1...I thought "As you are aware" meant Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #31

Yeah. I tried this line of reasoning. This group braying Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #63

Poor Rex Mar 2014 #97

Oh. Is it a "big deal" now? Because we weren't supposed to care when they were merely spying Romulox Mar 2014 #13

That was my first thought, too. woo me with science Mar 2014 #23

It's double plus good. Octafish Mar 2014 #47

K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2014 #19

Transparency must mean something other than what I thought it meant. Octafish Mar 2014 #50

George Orwell Was A Friggin Genious... WillyT Mar 2014 #59

And in Hell, Nixon was heard to say "Well that's a great weight off my shoulders!" kenny blankenship Mar 2014 #20

Joint Chiefs and CIA were on Nixon's ass for making nice to China. Octafish Mar 2014 #43

I just read your posts at those links.. I keep learning stuff I didn't know. 2banon Mar 2014 #104

It is truly amazing how deeply the hole goes Aerows Mar 2014 #109

Let the Sunshine In 2banon Mar 2014 #111

K & R AzDar Mar 2014 #21

Obama rejected calls to prosecute Bush administration officials Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 #22

The truth is ugly. nt woo me with science Mar 2014 #24

�The truth is ugly: Ichingcarpenter Mar 2014 #26

Ah, but woo me with science Mar 2014 #49

no matter who we elect it seems the cia,mic run things questionseverything Mar 2014 #27

+1 nt Zorra Mar 2014 #86

Upon the suggestion of Cass SUNSTEIN... Octafish Mar 2014 #42

Creepy and authoritarian beyond words. woo me with science Mar 2014 #44

And Nancy P bigwillq Mar 2014 #52

Wasn't the first time. Going by the look of things, it won't be the last. Octafish Mar 2014 #58

I am often compelled to consider that Obama and family lives might have been threatened 2banon Mar 2014 #105

Hmmmmmmm,,, kentuck Mar 2014 #28

Missing brother of Senator Mark Udall found dead in Wyoming (Keith Coffman 7-4-13 Reuters) bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #34

So now DU has come to the point Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #38

All one can do is laugh Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #39

The US national security community has gotten away with murder right here for decades. Not bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #41

Well He Does Enjoy House of Cards otohara Mar 2014 #94

see post 41 n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #95

It's sad to see the Guardian stoop to this level of misrepresentation struggle4progress Mar 2014 #35

the CIA hired contractors to read the 6.2 M pages to see if... grasswire Mar 2014 #101

***********************BULLSHIT ASS'D MISLEADING ARTICLE ALERT*********************** uponit7771 Mar 2014 #37

Compared to what? Octafish Mar 2014 #45

How about Obama just tells the CIA to release all the documents and let the chips fall Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #40

Kind of interesting the CIA should not spy on Congress treestar Mar 2014 #53

Except the CIA isn't Congress's boss. Octafish Mar 2014 #56

The fact there is anything to spy on shows Congress isn't completely transparent treestar Mar 2014 #60

Can you believe we have supposed Dems condoning the CIA spying on Congress? Rex Mar 2014 #99

With heavy emphasis on "Supposed". RC Mar 2014 #114

the point was, why should Congress have anything to hide? treestar Mar 2014 #115

Wow. Rex Mar 2014 #98

Has it occurred to anyone sadoldgirl Mar 2014 #54

''Money trumps peace.'' -- George W Bush, Feb. 14, 2007 Octafish Mar 2014 #57

Yep. A belated welcome to DU sadoldgirl! n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #62

Investigate the Entire Torture Team (Center for Constitutional Rights) bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #61

Battle Rages Between CIA and Senate Intel Committee over Torture Report, Conflicting Intelligence bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #64

So five days later there still isn't a clarification or retraction... Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #65

They were five days early. Octafish Mar 2014 #70

Nothing in the MJ piece asserts Obama knew about or directed Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #71

This story has been relegated to the backburner.. MinM Mar 2014 #90

You folks really believe that Obama could be in charge of the "shadow government" when he kelliekat44 Mar 2014 #66

Speaking for me, and vouching for others, we tried to warn him... Octafish Mar 2014 #69

^^^ (n/t) spin Mar 2014 #107

bttt n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #67

Reid disappointed CIA 'apparently unrepentant' for what he understands they did Octafish Mar 2014 #68

Porter J. Goss's GESTAPO imo. No one can make this stuff up. You've got that pic of him and his bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #72

The National Security Archive's Torturing Democracy has many documents for those of US that want bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #74

A kick to further the discussion of the many domestic "precedents" taken against we, the people. n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #75

Senator Udall: "The president has stated an unequivocal commitment to supporting..." ProSense Mar 2014 #77

Failing to investigate and prosecute torture is itself an international crime Oilwellian Mar 2014 #79

kick n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #80

I don't believe it. Rex Mar 2014 #81

kick n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #82

I like Sen. Udall but I do NOT understand why President Obama would want to spy on Congress. jwirr Mar 2014 #83

Obama did not order the spying. GoCubsGo Mar 2014 #106

Okay, thank you. jwirr Mar 2014 #113

Since Frank Wisner Jr. is one of President Obama's "special envoys" this thread gets another kick bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #84

That is some coincidence. Octafish Mar 2014 #85

Just think Arab Spring, too big to fail, energy czars, we don't torture, land of the free, etc... bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #87

For Kleptocracy. Octafish Mar 2014 #88

We (people) don't "...turn to Ergo for intelligence, political and risk analysis..." yet FedGov does bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #91

bttt n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #92

A bit of a historical kick-Constituitional lawyers like President Obama, Cass Sunstein, NSA, CIA bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #93

* n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #96

thanks for staying on this, BtD. nt grasswire Mar 2014 #103

I thank Octafish for being the OP, Spencer Ackerman @ The Guardian, DU... n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #112

19 days later the Guardian STILL hasen't retracted or corrected it Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #102

The buck stops seveneyes Mar 2014 #108

I trust Jimmy Carter nilesobek Mar 2014 #110

And now to view this thread anonymously bobduca Mar 2014 #116

So President Obama now is talking about what, exactly when it comes to we, the people bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #117

This is a Senate oversite committee doing its job, finally. idendoit Mar 2014 #118

Woe kick... n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #119

Reform today- kick n/t bobthedrummer Mar 2014 #120