General Discussion

Sirveri

(4,517 posts)

48. It's a bit more complicated than both of you are putting it.

Tue Dec 20, 2011, 08:22 AM

Dec 2011

But the simplest way to put it is this.

They can't cut the makeup funding from the general fund.

UNLESS

They can trigger an across the board program funding slash, which can only be done by hitting the debt ceiling.

SO:
Have we every had a problem with the debt ceiling? Uh oh yeah. If they cause an across the board cut, then they can target the makeup fund money, which will accelerate the consumption of the social security treasury notes and shift the bankruptcy date forward (from the most dire estimate of 2037, which assumes a 1.5% annual GDP growth rate).

Long term, if this measure is kept as a temporary measure, the damage will likely be minimal. If however they push it significantly past the projected debt ceiling cap (or god forbid make it permanent), then we'll see some serious problems.

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Wow, really, are Democrats now a party that want to gut Social Security in favor of tax cuts? [View all] MadHound Dec 2011 OP

Who would have guessed Obama would have to make concessions with Rs to pass a tax cut? LonePirate Dec 2011 #1

Way to many corporate whores in both parties. sarcasmo Dec 2011 #2

You got that right AnOhioan Dec 2011 #3

The question posed in the last paragraph. tblue Dec 2011 #4

I am as amazed as you are Tumbulu Dec 2011 #5

But...but Democrats will continue to vote for anyone with a D after their name Bogart Dec 2011 #6

Not all Democrats will do that I don't believe. NorthCarolina Dec 2011 #26

Not all, I agree. But enough establishment types would. And they call the shots. Bogart Dec 2011 #34

It's one of the best ways to stimulate the economy cally Dec 2011 #7

Sorry, I don't know where you went to school, but you are wrong MadHound Dec 2011 #8

payroll taxes have a higher stimulative rate than other types of taxes cally Dec 2011 #10

They may have a higher stimulative rate than other types of tax cuts, MadHound Dec 2011 #12

Funny, you're an anonymous internet poster cally Dec 2011 #17

What's that supposed to mean? tblue Dec 2011 #21

Funny, you don't have a Nobel Prize n/t MadHound Dec 2011 #44

Meh kenfrequed Dec 2011 #61

Yeah, kenfrequed Dec 2011 #98

Krugman supports a lot of things, like trillions of dollars of money printing to get us out of our BzaDem Dec 2011 #38

Uhm... kenfrequed Dec 2011 #62

My point is that we wouldn't have to worry about inflation if the Fed embraced more QE. BzaDem Dec 2011 #83

Sorry kenfrequed Dec 2011 #97

+10 Myrina Dec 2011 #58

You tell him, cally. That was a tad condescending. juajen Dec 2011 #36

A WPA style job creation program would be sweet abelenkpe Dec 2011 #14

"A little money into the hands of the working class right now" MadHound Dec 2011 #16

Yeah I agree abelenkpe Dec 2011 #22

I think most people do know. BzaDem Dec 2011 #40

But tax cuts really don't help the economy MadHound Dec 2011 #47

You aren't bolstering your case that there is a non-zero probabilty that any other form of stimulus BzaDem Dec 2011 #86

Ah yes, that old canard, the poor, pitiful, helpless Democrats MadHound Dec 2011 #87

This is really basic stuff. The White House does not pass legislation. The Senate (alone) does not BzaDem Dec 2011 #94

That is the ideal solution tblue Dec 2011 #23

"Worst form of economic stimulus" is oxymoronic. bornskeptic Dec 2011 #51

Err.. kenfrequed Dec 2011 #63

If you are going to spend tax money to stimulate the economy, you should get the most return MadHound Dec 2011 #74

frankly, welfare is better at stimulating the economy provis99 Dec 2011 #9

Nonsense. bvar22 Dec 2011 #33

What you just described is a refundable tax credit. n/t BzaDem Dec 2011 #39

So WHY attack Social Security FICA Contributions? bvar22 Dec 2011 #57

Democrats would support it if it were the only counter-cyclical stimulus available. BzaDem Dec 2011 #85

We've had the measly 2% reduction for a year now. How's it working? Common Sense Party Dec 2011 #43

It's working pretty damn' well. bornskeptic Dec 2011 #52

I have not seen or heard about this Hutzpa Dec 2011 #11

It is the payroll tax cut that is currently in the news, MadHound Dec 2011 #13

See post #19 it explains this very well. Hutzpa Dec 2011 #25

Why not just give the entire amount paid in FICA taxes...? kentuck Dec 2011 #30

Don't think it will pass abelenkpe Dec 2011 #15

It WON'T: jenmito Dec 2011 #18

+1. BzaDem Dec 2011 #42

Trotting out another administration sychophant to try and prove your point. MadHound Dec 2011 #45

He's a very good economist who USED to work for the Obama administration. What he said is factual. jenmito Dec 2011 #53

It's a bit more complicated than both of you are putting it. Sirveri Dec 2011 #48

Actually, ProSense Dec 2011 #19

Umm, yeah thanks again for reiterating my point MadHound Dec 2011 #27

It already is Major Nikon Dec 2011 #77

You cannot believe that? kentuck Dec 2011 #29

I know believing hard facts and raw data is so passe these days. BzaDem Dec 2011 #41

Why believe facts? It's what you feel must be the case that counts, I guess? stevenleser Dec 2011 #69

Yep. My hometown paper describes it as a cut in social security taxes. mmonk Dec 2011 #20

couldn't agree more. nashville_brook Dec 2011 #24

I agree with you MadHound.. kentuck Dec 2011 #28

Q: Who raised the Payroll Tax to its current rate? bhikkhu Dec 2011 #31

I think it was the Reagan Commission... kentuck Dec 2011 #32

It isn't the Democrats' fault that you are mistaken about how the law works. BzaDem Dec 2011 #35

Thanks, but you can still color me confused. NT juajen Dec 2011 #37

Sorry, but your wrong MadHound Dec 2011 #46

So is the payroll tax. So is all government revenue and spending. Robb Dec 2011 #56

Exactly, which is why Al Gore in 2000 talked about a lockbox. All funding is subject to congress' stevenleser Dec 2011 #70

FactCheck.org: Bachmann wrong that payroll tax cut hurts the SS Trust Fund. pampango Dec 2011 #49

It is up to the Congress presently in power... kentuck Dec 2011 #54

Should have bolded "Again, that shortfall will be covered by the general fund". jtuck004 Dec 2011 #55

By covering the shortage with the general fund, they are putting it on the chopping block Doctor_J Dec 2011 #68

Its always on the chopping block as is all government funding. Congress always has the power to put stevenleser Dec 2011 #71

The Democratic Party is a capitalist party. blindpig Dec 2011 #50

You can see the rightward reaction by some in our party fascisthunter Dec 2011 #59

Single Issue GOPer tactic...Moot Fighting at its best...its ALL MOOT.....Ya will never unnerstan opihimoimoi Dec 2011 #60

Why did you lump the liberals with the Democrats? IMO the Democratic party is far from liberal. rhett o rick Dec 2011 #64

Huh? "....not be a position that any Democrat, liberal or progressive is in favor of" great white snark Dec 2011 #66

Well I certainly dont align myself with Democrats that passed NSAA, vote for the rhett o rick Dec 2011 #73

That's right... all right leaning corporate sellouts fascisthunter Dec 2011 #89

Well said. nm rhett o rick Dec 2011 #93

So far, there has been no gutting of Social Security. dawg Dec 2011 #65

This is only about the 15th predicted death of Social Security in the last 2 years. JoePhilly Dec 2011 #81

One of those threats was real, kinda sorta. dawg Dec 2011 #88

Sure ... I'm familair with the ... JoePhilly Dec 2011 #91

Maybe you are right. dawg Dec 2011 #92

Many, many Dems will go along with anything the president is in favor of Doctor_J Dec 2011 #67

Who? Robb Dec 2011 #72

Well, speaking as objectively as I can, from posts I have read, Prosense is at least the one, there Dragonfli Dec 2011 #75

So there's a dozen? Robb Dec 2011 #76

Actually more, a dozen that come immediately to mind yes, because they post like addicts Dragonfli Dec 2011 #78

I find it impossible to believe you could find more than a dozen posters who have never criticized Robb Dec 2011 #79

And yet the are still apparent to anyone that cares to look, go figure /nt Dragonfli Dec 2011 #80

Would it surprise you to know Robb Dec 2011 #82

I thought we were discussing President Obama's policies and their blind support? Dragonfli Dec 2011 #84

Since there are probably roughly 50-60 regular active posters, and around 20 or so Doctor_J Dec 2011 #96

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Dec 2011 #90

Thank you for stating the obvious. GrannyK Dec 2011 #95