General Discussion

quaker bill

(8,265 posts)

202. To the contrary

Sun Mar 9, 2014, 07:30 AM

Mar 2014

I think Hillary is likely to run regardless, but I think Bernie in the race would be more likely to pull Hillary in than block her out. I think she would prefer to win an ideological battle, the more epic the better. Winning such a battle in 2008, while small on the ideological front, huge on the political front, did Barack a great deal of good.

A battle between Hillary and Bernie would be less over strategy, and more over ideas and connections to power. Hillary has to think she could win this, and is likely only thinking of how to play it. A knockout in the first rounds is fairly useless in the terms of free media. You want it to extend to Super Tuesday at least, with a slightly split decision then being even better. If it rolls to NY and CA, even better.

Something that would change my calculus: the country becomes sick of the t-party and the Dems take a solid majority in the House in 2014. In that case, Bernie has a solid chance. Unlikely, but possible.

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If Bernie runs, Hillary won't [View all] MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 OP

If she doesn't run it is because she doesn't want to do it. Nothing else matters. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #1

never has krawhitham Mar 2014 #94

! dionysus Mar 2014 #2

^^^ OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #10

i'm not even a big fan of the Clintons, but damn this shit is getting delusional.... dionysus Mar 2014 #15

Nor I. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #29

Paulsen status.... Ned Fenwick Mar 2014 #133

That's a good take. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #138

maybe he is doing like Hotblack Desiato... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2014 #151

Spot On! chuckstevens Mar 2014 #135

Bernie would take Hillary's lunch money in a debate. As a corporate Dem she would be fodder... Scuba Mar 2014 #3

It would end with Hillary at the bottom of a smoking crater MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #5

The debates are not set up that way. former9thward Mar 2014 #57

just like Dennis did the last two times? dionysus Mar 2014 #17

More like Aerows Mar 2014 #53

^^^^ T H I S ^^^^ MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #54

I actually felt bad for Ryan that night... almost Scootaloo Mar 2014 #128

I thought Ryan was going to have to Aerows Mar 2014 #134

It could have been MORE awkward Scootaloo Mar 2014 #141

Or like that guy from Freedom Industries Aerows Mar 2014 #146

What is it with crooked conservatives and water? laundry_queen Mar 2014 #198

Do you think they'd ALLOW him in the debates? nt 7962 Mar 2014 #158

If he runs as a Dem, they'd have a hard time keeping him out. n/t winter is coming Mar 2014 #160

So you think Bernie will simply become a sudden Democrat without affecting his credibility?! Bwah! WinkyDink Mar 2014 #209

He could start a new trend, the "credible Democrat". Enthusiast Mar 2014 #212

Becoming a Dem would diminish his credibility? Wow L0oniX Mar 2014 #233

Duh. An avowed Independent changes Party and you think he won't be looked upon as an opportunist? WinkyDink Mar 2014 #255

Duh. Dems will vote for a Dem. Call it being an opportunist? I call it running for POTUS. L0oniX Mar 2014 #261

He's caucused with Dems for years. Which policies do you think he holds contrary to Dem positions? winter is coming Mar 2014 #247

My point wasn't about our individual micro-choices; I'd like Bernie, too. WinkyDink Mar 2014 #256

But that's what an election is: millions of micro-choices. winter is coming Mar 2014 #260

Bwahahah so yeah you're so concerned for his credibillity and you know an independant can't win... L0oniX Mar 2014 #262

And what debate would this be, where an Independent debates? WinkyDink Mar 2014 #208

Bernie caucuses with the Dems now, and rank-and-file Dems will welcome him with open arms. Scuba Mar 2014 #211

I'm a Union kind o'gal, so perhaps you are correct. But money talks, and the OP's claim is absurd. WinkyDink Mar 2014 #257

i think this is wishful thinking on your part. nt La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #4

You might be right. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #8

I don't think hillary should run, but for different reasons La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #21

delusional is more like it dlwickham Mar 2014 #82

You cannot possibly believe that BainsBane Mar 2014 #6

Hillary's said she's not running, repeatedly MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #9

No, she hasn't BainsBane Mar 2014 #14

I'm not sure why you do these things MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #18

If that's the case BainsBane Mar 2014 #24

Whoa. One step at a time. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #26

Hey, this is about what you think. Not me. BainsBane Mar 2014 #31

You said mean things to me. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #34

Mean things? BainsBane Mar 2014 #41

So has Hillary said she's not running? Or not? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #47

Okay, she's not running. BainsBane Mar 2014 #59

Hmmm... MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #60

I'm agnostic BainsBane Mar 2014 #63

So you called my OP "nonsense" MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #67

Oh, dear. I'm sure you're devastated. BainsBane Mar 2014 #72

So now I'm stupid, too. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #74

Try rereading BainsBane Mar 2014 #77

"Therefore I have trouble believing you ..." MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #84

No, I don't believe you really believe your own OP BainsBane Mar 2014 #89

So I'm a prevaricator, but not stupid. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #96

Wow you play victim better than my kids MyNameGoesHere Mar 2014 #131

Well played. RC Mar 2014 #147

Whew! Fumesucker Mar 2014 #97

That would be part of why people would support him 'He is unlikely to attract a lot of money from sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #189

Hillary has said she wont, but so has Warren. Never believe a politician who says no. Means nothing 7962 Mar 2014 #164

Agreed. But it's funny how some people believe Warren, but not Hillary. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #167

Because we know politician speak BainsBane Mar 2014 #169

"I have ruled it out." MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #174

Okay, then you're right BainsBane Mar 2014 #186

I think you're trying to reframe what's going on: MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #224

It's still too early for anyone to say the big Yes. We should all know that. n/t Whisp Mar 2014 #179

Hilary wouldn't be the first to decide to run because public pressure to do so. lumpy Mar 2014 #46

But Elizabeth would be the first? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #48

When Hillary signs a letter asking Elizabeth Warren to run, get back to us... brooklynite Mar 2014 #104

Oh, so you found the letter? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #108

Seriously Manny? THAT's the position you want to go to? brooklynite Mar 2014 #112

So... Where's the letter? Is it a *secret* letter? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #114

Just a guess...it was a PRIVATE letter. brooklynite Mar 2014 #126

Don't believe the "secret letter" gambit. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #132

gawd Manny, it really, really disturbs me that I like this post of yours so much. n/t Whisp Mar 2014 #185

As it should. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #195

wait, I think I changed my mind. n/t Whisp Mar 2014 #235

Oh... you know how they are Manny.... ReRe Mar 2014 #92

Apparently it doesn't matter that Hillary never said such a thing, either. WinkyDink Mar 2014 #206

She said she would decide this year. joshcryer Mar 2014 #127

She HAS said no. Not that it means anything.... 7962 Mar 2014 #161

I'll have what you're smoking. WinkyDink Mar 2014 #205

I'm not aware that Warren has said she will not run. Can you provide a link for that? Scuba Mar 2014 #11

There have been multiple threads on DU about it BainsBane Mar 2014 #12

So, no. She's said she is not running. She has not said she will not run. Scuba Mar 2014 #33

She did, she got ambushed and had to say something MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #13

She pledged not to run. joshcryer Mar 2014 #130

Which is to bad as she would be a good choice imo. nt cstanleytech Mar 2014 #156

Me either. Need a link. Aerows Mar 2014 #154

LMAO! adirondacker Mar 2014 #7

I hope they both run and Bernie gets the nomination. bigwillq Mar 2014 #16

Perhaps 3/4 of voters have no idea who Bernie is. lumpy Mar 2014 #49

This, too. bigwillq Mar 2014 #50

like Obama in 2006 lunasun Mar 2014 #99

Obviously Obama drew attention because he was a first in a the presidential race. People learned lumpy Mar 2014 #150

Everyone knew who Obama was after his speech at the 2004 convention Doctor_J Mar 2014 #241

That would probably be in his favor since polls show that politicians, especially those who are know sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #190

Which will work in his favor because EVERYBODY Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #214

No, it's far more likely that we'll see a well-funded effort to try to "Dean scream" Bernie winter is coming Mar 2014 #19

it will be a choice between Corporate Hillary and Corporate Christie or Jeb frwrfpos Mar 2014 #20

Well, when you put it that way... LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #87

It's a nice thought, temporary311 Mar 2014 #22

She has a record. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #23

So did Bush, temporary311 Mar 2014 #27

Hillary's is far, far worse relative to where Americans are today MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #30

I hope so. temporary311 Mar 2014 #32

And whatever she might not've known about that subject in 2008 demwing Mar 2014 #36

I don't think Bernie will get media attention to the extent Hillary would Fumesucker Mar 2014 #25

Plus 1 Ishoutandscream2 Mar 2014 #183

Social media has been used to great effect enigmatic Mar 2014 #188

I think it's the other way around. Boom Sound 416 Mar 2014 #28

Why should we believe that you actually even want Warren to run or even win? Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #35

I'm actually Tagg Romney MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #37

You said you'd rather overturn the election of Obama than the election of Reagan in 1980 Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #39

Maybe you should link to that post, for context MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #43

Context? Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #45

Afraid to link to the post? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #51

Manny.... Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #58

I think you're scared to link to it. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #61

You're still admiting that you'd rather overturn the Obama election than the Reagan election Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #62

You're a chicken, an obfuscator, and have difficulty navigating metaphors. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #64

Here ya go. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #76

Thank you. nt MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #81

hahahaha Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #93

That's pretty blatant BainsBane Mar 2014 #85

Do you disagree? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #88

Yes, I disagree that McCain should have been President BainsBane Mar 2014 #95

I usually do, too. Sometimes not. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #98

But not after innauguration? BainsBane Mar 2014 #100

I started getting concerned about a month before inauguration MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #107

That doesn't surprise me BainsBane Mar 2014 #110

Here's a Manny duzy from that post.. "Would McCain's policies be much different? I don't see how." DCBob Mar 2014 #91

That's a shocker. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #102

Really? Marr Mar 2014 #168

Hillary became mononymous during her Senate campaign. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #175

Oh, that makes sense. It's cloying when done by people you don't like, and totally Marr Mar 2014 #176

Almost. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #178

Plus normally politicians are referred to by their surnames. But there are two famous Clintons CJCRANE Mar 2014 #201

Yes, I noticed that too! nt CJCRANE Mar 2014 #199

Don't worry about intimacy till Manny posts picture thread after Autumn Mar 2014 #246

That wouldn't surprise me. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #200

You lost me when you said demwing Mar 2014 #38

So you were alerted on neverforget Mar 2014 #165

Interesting...juror #6 thinks I alerted Cali_Democrat Mar 2014 #181

thanks for the post demwing Mar 2014 #184

THIS IS WHY WE NEED 7 JURORS Capt. Obvious Mar 2014 #259

I'm sorry, I've been traveling a lot lately... seattledo Mar 2014 #40

I fully agree with you. Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #42

Someone else HAS to run to show Dems have a "bench" elfin Mar 2014 #44

Yes, Hillary is a corporatist and needs to be challenged on that and drawn more left. DJ13 Mar 2014 #157

I could give two shit who runs and who doesn't Aerows Mar 2014 #52

I'm not ready for Hillary Aerows Mar 2014 #55

I'm ready. bigwillq Mar 2014 #66

If you don't have Hillary Aerows Mar 2014 #68

Damn. bigwillq Mar 2014 #73

I'm not sure about sleeping bags, yet Aerows Mar 2014 #152

Oh, there will be total obliteration. jsr Mar 2014 #204

No way. The only way I will vote for Bernie is if he runs as a Democratic. I will vote for him in lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #56

I don't advocate third parties Aerows Mar 2014 #65

and no matter how Democratic he is, if he runs under a separate party, I will NOT split the vote. lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #69

Cart before the horse, IMHO Aerows Mar 2014 #90

So will I,as long as it is in the Democratic primary, and if Bernie runs as a Democrat in the lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #103

Which is why the GOP will lose. They will NOT unite behind whoever gets the nod. 7962 Mar 2014 #172

If Hillary runs, it will tear the Democratic Party apart. bvar22 Mar 2014 #70

AMEN, brother! MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #79

how about "what utter bullshit" instead of an amen dlwickham Mar 2014 #83

+1 BainsBane Mar 2014 #105

Love your in depth, insightful political analysis of the suituation. bvar22 Mar 2014 #115

That's why they stick to insults, not facts MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #119

Absolutely. But at some point we need to cut them adrift, run them out of our party. rhett o rick Mar 2014 #228

thank you dlwickham Mar 2014 #143

PLUS A BRAZILLION! Enthusiast Mar 2014 #220

One side uses argument, the other insult. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #116

who did I insult dlwickham Mar 2014 #144

My bad, sorry. I forgot that MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #155

so who did I insult dlwickham Mar 2014 #244

Amen and Amen! ReRe Mar 2014 #109

no it won't. I would hope Bernie would run as a Democratic in the Democratic primary. Folks were lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #111

Sort of like it tore the Party apart in 2008? brooklynite Mar 2014 #113

Amen Caretha Mar 2014 #124

AMEN! (n/t) a2liberal Mar 2014 #129

I say AMEN! Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #215

AMEN Brother!!! Enthusiast Mar 2014 #219

I so agree. The Left has to take a stand against the Conservative run Democratic Party. rhett o rick Mar 2014 #237

No ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #239

I don't think you are on trend, sadly. WinkyDink Mar 2014 #258

More 2016 fantasy football. longship Mar 2014 #71

You could be right about "America's temperment is no longer for Third-Way shenanigans." Jack Rabbit Mar 2014 #75

*presses the Pause button* Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #216

Finally! An outcome we can both hope for! randome Mar 2014 #78

If Bernie runs, and I wish he would, he will be marginalized by the media Cheese4TheRat Mar 2014 #80

Whatever M$M coverage he gets will be one long Dean Scream Fumesucker Mar 2014 #86

Hahahaha! So true. Cheese4TheRat Mar 2014 #162

The problem with Kucinich is that the media knew he wasn't serious. Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #217

lol...good one. Iggo Mar 2014 #101

I think Hillary will run. If Sanders runs he will probably beat her in a few primaries and that Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #106

How is he going to beat her when he isn't a registered Democrat..... Historic NY Mar 2014 #117

he has said publicly he might run. He is too much of a pragmatist to run as a third party candidate. Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #123

If Bernie runs, dems lose liberal N proud Mar 2014 #118

I doubt that he would run as an Independent. But even if he did rhett o rick Mar 2014 #238

Bookmarking...nt SidDithers Mar 2014 #120

You never give up, do you Manny? ReRe Mar 2014 #121

The very good progressive vs the 3rd Way Not as Bad candidate. Go, Bernie! Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #122

Amen in the crowd! Aerows Mar 2014 #137

cannot underestimate ego, lust and mania reddread Mar 2014 #125

Hillary Clinton IS most certainly running. JaneyVee Mar 2014 #136

I think you misspelled "mud pit" Fumesucker Mar 2014 #149

Ewwwww. bvar22 Mar 2014 #243

If Bernie runs he has my vote regardless. He believes the same things that I do. AAO Mar 2014 #139

Is this honesty or wishful thinking? Auntie Bush Mar 2014 #140

THAT WOULD BE AWESOME! Katashi_itto Mar 2014 #142

*sputter* Recursion Mar 2014 #145

If he runs quakerboy Mar 2014 #148

Whatever. delrem Mar 2014 #153

Just what we need....... whistler162 Mar 2014 #159

Well, according to Bernie he is prepared to run. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2014 #163

If Bernie Sanders ran for president, our corporate media would attack him 24-7. Marr Mar 2014 #166

Hillary has too much baggage drexelhillbilly Mar 2014 #170

Running as an independent for President is really hard. FarCenter Mar 2014 #171

Dumb. But everyone's entitled to their opinion. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #173

My guess is that if Bernie runs, Hillary will bury him. Deep13 Mar 2014 #177

Ran into a friend who knows a Republican politico (some of us do.....) brooklynite Mar 2014 #180

Karl Rove had unlimited financial resources too. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #182

Bernie Madoff is in jail. He might have had a chance in his heyday. aquart Mar 2014 #187

Hmmm. blue neen Mar 2014 #191

I don't think it's inappropriate at all. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #193

Hey, blue neen Mar 2014 #194

To stave off the nitwits. MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #196

Manny, you should be a writer. Beacool Mar 2014 #192

Maybe... just maybe... I *am* a writer MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #197

It's delusion and wishful thinking. Beacool Mar 2014 #250

To the contrary quaker bill Mar 2014 #202

hopeful delusion at best beachbum bob Mar 2014 #203

I can't grasp how silly the OP post is. Bernie Sanders isn't even a DEMOCRAT. WinkyDink Mar 2014 #207

Using a Third Party candidate to divide Democrats--what does that sound like to you? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #225

Comrade! MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #227

Hey Manny---I'm merely going to suggest you stop using google translate for msanthrope Mar 2014 #232

Manny, why do you want Bernie to punch Hillary in the nose? Enthusiast Mar 2014 #210

I don't often disagree with you my Dear Manny Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #213

I don't give a fig who runs in 2016. It won't Skidmore Mar 2014 #218

Starting 2016 fights before 2014---FUD. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #221

Do you agree that presidential candidates who declare before the November election MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #222

Show me one who has, and I will answer the question specific to that candidate. Care to tell us msanthrope Mar 2014 #223

So it will depend on which candidate files before the election? MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #226

No--I won't have this discussion until someone does. And you are damn right some are more equal msanthrope Mar 2014 #229

So if any Democrat jumps in for President before the election, then that MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #230

And again--you focus on the 2016s rather than your 2014 elections--seemingly in repsonse to this: msanthrope Mar 2014 #236

Why post drivel??????? Pisces Mar 2014 #231

Because he has a captured audience that wants to hear this kind of stuff. Beacool Mar 2014 #251

Wishful thinking? ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2014 #234

I really don't think Hillary will run. Biden most certainly will IMO. Autumn Mar 2014 #240

Ready for Hillary? A news article, at least three times a week for the past several months, winter is coming Mar 2014 #248

Biden and Sanders, two men in their mid 70s by 2016. Beacool Mar 2014 #252

That's all it is Bea. I just don't see Hillary running. Autumn Mar 2014 #254

What To Do? colsohlibgal Mar 2014 #242

If Hillary doesn't run, Cuomo will, and will be the favorite. Jim Lane Mar 2014 #245

Is this a plan to give the election to the GOP BrentWil Mar 2014 #249

Shhhh, don't ruin their fantasy. Beacool Mar 2014 #253