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mackattack

(344 posts)
5. Wow....no
Fri Mar 23, 2012, 09:04 PM
Mar 2012

Not at all. I teach this to college kids. Here is the quick version:

The Articles of the Confederation were the rules we went by before we had the Constitution. Under the Articles we had a very, very, very weak central government and it was all about state's rights. So the national government asked for things like troops to defend the borders against British and Spanish. They asked for money to pay off the Rev War debt. They asked the states to contribute to civilization.

The states said no. Everyone was broke and more people were in prison for debts than actual crimes. There were open and armed revolts. There were rebellions against banks confiscating people's farms. We couldnt raise a national army and we couldnt create and maintain a navy. No body pitched in. They all expected somebody else to do it. When the national government asked for money the states told them to go to hell. It's the free rider problem. Good times, right?


So the founders got together and said, 'hey we have to sacrifice some of our state's rights liberty so we can have security and a working country.' They did just that and came up with the Bill of Rights and later passed things like the 14th Amendment to make sure that state's werent taking away things guaranteed in the Bill of Rights.

Anyone who tells you that the founders were against government is lying to your face. We tried the limited government thing under the Articles...it didnt work. The South tried the limited government thing during the Civil War and there were surpluses of bullets, boots, and troops hoarded in states while the Army of Northern Virginia starved and bled to death. They Southern states said 'nope, these are our things and we wont share them. The "lost cause" was lost because of state's rights.

If anyone tells you the founders hated government, you tell them to read the Federalist Papers. They wont. But I will tell you this. It is 85 amazing, concise, and immaculatly worded articles on why government is absolutely and unequivocally necessary for a civilization to flourish and prosper.

This state centered approach favored by the right doesnt work. It destroys individual liberty (just ask an African American before 1964), it hurts defenses, and it keeps us from competing economically on the international level. Founders said we need it. End of story.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

The Founders did not hate government. HubertHeaver Mar 2012 #1
Can we stop with making the U.S. Constitution a sacramental doctrine? CTyankee Mar 2012 #2
NO !!! - And, Yes... WillyT Mar 2012 #11
I don't want to get into a long rant on this except to say that what you are saying strikes CTyankee Mar 2012 #17
You Make Great Points... But I Don't See A Solution Here... WillyT Mar 2012 #19
You know, I'm frustrated! I'm just at complete odds with a U.S. Constitution that just doesn't CTyankee Mar 2012 #20
Yep, your frustration is pretty clear malthaussen Mar 2012 #22
Mal, we do not "know it all." That has been our problem all along. We think we "got it right," CTyankee Mar 2012 #23
Also means "to bring out of shadow," malthaussen Mar 2012 #26
Very good analysis. I would like to know more from Con Law experts who I admire and respect, CTyankee Mar 2012 #27
Sounds good to me malthaussen Mar 2012 #28
glad you looked it up. I'm going to do so this afternoon. But I had a question for you. CTyankee Mar 2012 #29
Wasn't claiming "fatal" ambiguities malthaussen Mar 2012 #34
You make a point about "discrimination" and I would wonder further about what Justice Ginsburg CTyankee Mar 2012 #35
The idea of a constitutional convention in this day and age would be terrifying Posteritatis Mar 2012 #30
some of us would say we don't like living under the current "result" of our current Constitution. CTyankee Mar 2012 #32
They hated their ultra-conservative Monarchy "govt", but chose to love Democracy. FarLeftFist Mar 2012 #3
Then why didn't they make us a Democracy? Ter Mar 2012 #6
They hated democracy mackattack Mar 2012 #7
You're applying todays standards of democracy to the idea of democracy over 200 years ago. FarLeftFist Mar 2012 #12
No, Im not mackattack Mar 2012 #13
Well, true only to the extent that Madison and others did not like Greek style direct democracy. CTyankee Mar 2012 #18
The founders did not hate government but they did distrust it. former9thward Mar 2012 #4
It baffles me that people have so much trouble with the distinction you just noted Posteritatis Mar 2012 #31
Wow....no mackattack Mar 2012 #5
Hard to imagine Canuckistanian Mar 2012 #8
They would have asked "What's a bathtub?" malthaussen Mar 2012 #14
Yep, they did/do. Just finished CARO's LBJ bio: Senate is a BLOCKAGE (kill PROGRESS) n/t UTUSN Mar 2012 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author Herlong Mar 2012 #10
Which Founders? malthaussen Mar 2012 #15
If America today tried to form a United States chnoutte Mar 2012 #16
Not sure the FFs would even recognize a multicultural society such as the U.S. CTyankee Mar 2012 #25
Hamilton, Washington, & Madison built an activist federal government Bucky Mar 2012 #21
Apparently they hated government so much Shankapotomus Mar 2012 #24
Clearly not. They did have a clear suspicion of concentration of power that TheKentuckian Mar 2012 #33
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