General Discussion

Xithras

(16,191 posts)

88. I take it the other way. I don't think it broke up at altitude.

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:07 PM

Mar 2014

Every cushion on a modern aircraft floats. So does paper. So do bodies. So will a lot of luggage. So does most of the insulation. If the aircraft broke up at 35,000 feet, there would be a very large and VISIBLE field of smaller floating debris that would be quickly picked up by search planes.

The fact that there isn't would suggest to me that the debris field is much smaller. THAT points to the aircraft hitting the water intact. I'd imagine a scenario more akin to United 93, with hijacking followed by a dive into the ocean. Remember how little debris there was at the United 93 impact site? The debris field was relatively small because the aircraft struck the ground in one piece. Something similar would happen in a water strike.

Heck, an even better comparison would be that Valujet flight that went down in the Florida Everglades in the mid-90's. It hit the water in one piece and there was almost NOTHING on the surface to indicate that it was a crash site. The first people to arrive on the location at ground level had to get confirmation from the helicopters above that they were at the right spot, because it wasn't even apparent that they were floating a few feet above the wreckage.

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How do we lose an airplane [View all] LynneSin Mar 2014 OP

over water warrior1 Mar 2014 #1

I hate to trivalize a horrifically tragic situation like this. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #2

So did I Renew Deal Mar 2014 #9

OMG - me too LynneSin Mar 2014 #18

LOST, The Langoliers and Millennium. Catherine Vincent Mar 2014 #60

"harmless to human" 30million year old bacteria, NM_Birder Mar 2014 #85

Showing my age here, lol. CrispyQ Mar 2014 #101

I believe that several people are thinkink about similar "explanations". NealK Mar 2014 #205

I thought of LiberalElite Mar 2014 #233

The ocean is rather large cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #3

But it didn't go down in the middle of an ocean B2G Mar 2014 #12

If that map is accurate, it was lost about 100 miles from land JHB Mar 2014 #21

Point being, it's not the middle of the ocean. B2G Mar 2014 #24

I still don't understand why this is considered insufficiently vast... JHB Mar 2014 #30

The search doesn't just rely on visuals B2G Mar 2014 #38

None of which seem to be transmitting. riverwalker Mar 2014 #82

I know, right? nt B2G Mar 2014 #107

Those airplanes aren't drawn to scale in that image jberryhill Mar 2014 #44

But they're still yellow, aren't they? Orrex Mar 2014 #48

They are all still yellow mockmonkey Mar 2014 #58

No kidding. nt B2G Mar 2014 #49

! opiate69 Mar 2014 #110

I just did a distance measure across that Gulf. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #97

how do they miss it??? it's right there CreekDog Mar 2014 #200

and if the largest piece you're looking for is a door or part of the tail? CreekDog Mar 2014 #66

What are you doing??? CreekDog Mar 2014 #109

Are you talking to me? B2G Mar 2014 #111

yes I'm talking to you and you seem to think that if it doesn't go down in a giant ocean... CreekDog Mar 2014 #112

I never said it should be easy B2G Mar 2014 #114

if you're using the term "ELT" casually CreekDog Mar 2014 #116

It would have had to go SIGNIFICANTLY off course B2G Mar 2014 #117

what is the precision necessary to locate a beacon? CreekDog Mar 2014 #122

Depends... Glassunion Mar 2014 #163

if only i'd realized i was arguing with someone who uses the term "gun grabber" CreekDog Mar 2014 #189

wow. wow. wow. CreekDog Mar 2014 #191

What exactly is your problem? B2G Mar 2014 #195

no the wow is for you complaining that Obamacare included maternity coverage CreekDog Mar 2014 #196

Yeah, cause I'm the only one on DU B2G Mar 2014 #198

well i think you're unique CreekDog Mar 2014 #199

I like Skjippy. NealK Mar 2014 #206

LOL CreekDog Mar 2014 #236

Why do you waste your time digging up old posts? blueamy66 Mar 2014 #197

Someone did that to me recently.... CANDO Mar 2014 #202

I just don't get it. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #204

i don't know why your own posts bother you so much CreekDog Mar 2014 #207

My posts don't bother me. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #211

and you're here in this thread doing what? CreekDog Mar 2014 #214

calling you out for stalking people blueamy66 Mar 2014 #217

so you follow me to this thread to talk about something other than the thread CreekDog Mar 2014 #218

bye blueamy66 Mar 2014 #219

thank you for following me here to accuse me of stalking CreekDog Mar 2014 #220

I'm not the one throwing out posts from over a year ago. blueamy66 Mar 2014 #221

pointing out recent posts on a public message board is not stalking CreekDog Mar 2014 #223

Bye blueamy66 Mar 2014 #225

Here's some irony for ya, CreekDog... Skip Intro Mar 2014 #232

Yes it is creepy. And stalkerish. And CreekDog is well-known for it. Skip Intro Mar 2014 #230

Funny your posts are very much like B2G whom you're defending CreekDog Mar 2014 #231

Gee, an insinuation from CreekDog. I guess water is still wet. n/t Skip Intro Mar 2014 #234

their search area Niceguy1 Mar 2014 #113

100 mile radius = South Carolina Glassunion Mar 2014 #164

about Niceguy1 Mar 2014 #168

Yeah, some people seem to think that this area is the size of a swimming pool. NealK Mar 2014 #209

The experts are befuddled adigal Mar 2014 #129

Judging by your posts, you are assuming exactly where it went down. You cannot. Glassunion Mar 2014 #162

There are far more uninhabited square miles on the planet pipoman Mar 2014 #4

Not in the area it went down nt B2G Mar 2014 #14

how many humans inhabit the South China Sea? CreekDog Mar 2014 #68

The poster was referring to land populations, which are heavy in the region where the bluestate10 Mar 2014 #177

It's easy to lose track of ones that are beamed up to the mother ship in orbit FarCenter Mar 2014 #5

good point Renew Deal Mar 2014 #8

That's It!! Champion Jack Mar 2014 #67

I almost am beginning to think that might actually be the explanation. ... spin Mar 2014 #102

Cue Carl Sagan: "There are millions and millions of ocean miles..." randome Mar 2014 #6

It's a big world Renew Deal Mar 2014 #7

Dharma Initiative...anyone got contact info for Ben Linus? HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #10

If this aircraft had been flying over the continental U.S. Jenoch Mar 2014 #11

Isn't general aviation traffic tracked by transponder broadcasts from the planes? HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #16

I don't think all general aviation airplanes Jenoch Mar 2014 #22

There are the engine monitors, for example FarCenter Mar 2014 #31

The transponders provide altitude and tail number, not position, speed, or direction. Angleae Mar 2014 #159

Basically the transponder is received by the radar set hootinholler Mar 2014 #174

Well, the Malaysians lost it, and it clearly met with a castastrophe of some sort. MADem Mar 2014 #13

The strangest thing is that there was no mayday call Mosby Mar 2014 #37

I hope they figure this one out, soon. MADem Mar 2014 #45

10 countries are involved now Mosby Mar 2014 #52

If the engines fell off, I'd expect the electrical system to be in very poor shape jeff47 Mar 2014 #64

The 777 has an automatic RAT and an APU Xithras Mar 2014 #76

That's assuming the engines tearing off didn't produce a short. jeff47 Mar 2014 #86

Not really. Savannahmann Mar 2014 #75

Thanks for that research. SheilaT Mar 2014 #90

Your totally right! marlakay Mar 2014 #123

A charter jet flew off of San Juan once Savannahmann Mar 2014 #165

I'm with you. While catastrophic structural failure or terrorism are possible causes...... Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2014 #215

The Air France flight that crashed a few years ago. Savannahmann Mar 2014 #216

Not strange if there was a catastrophic explosion, or major malfunction and the pilots were LuckyLib Mar 2014 #89

Yes, getting a mayday call out would be a priority ..... oldhippie Mar 2014 #183

On another site, a pilot didn't think it was weird adigal Mar 2014 #132

Either an explosion or hull disaster. nt Logical Mar 2014 #157

All I know is I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #15

I should not be laughing over that one.... LynneSin Mar 2014 #20

No one will blame you. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #28

US satellite coverage of the area said to be "very good" mainer Mar 2014 #17

First someone has to go up and retrieve the film. randome Mar 2014 #19

Very funny, but some spy satellites really used film jmowreader Mar 2014 #100

Well, look at some of the Google Earth images. MADem Mar 2014 #50

It would be like searching for a penny on a football field while looking through a soda straw hack89 Mar 2014 #54

Sorry, but US spy satellites are advanced enough to highlight an infected pimple bluestate10 Mar 2014 #178

Do you understand field of view? hack89 Mar 2014 #179

People don't understand that the entire surface of the Earth isn't always being photographed. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #188

It is a vast ocean liberal N proud Mar 2014 #23

Not in the location where they lost contact. B2G Mar 2014 #25

It is a fair size body of water it was over. liberal N proud Mar 2014 #26

There was still a good load of fuel on board proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #34

Still smaller than a grain of sand in a sandbox jberryhill Mar 2014 #40

Again, they don't just search based on visuals B2G Mar 2014 #43

A "pretty good idea" still leaves a vast area to search jeff47 Mar 2014 #70

C'mon. they were likely traveling at 550 mph. There is also the notion that they turned back. okaawhatever Mar 2014 #94

Makes it possible they will never find it treestar Mar 2014 #126

i don't think we have cctv every 100 feet on that particular ocean floor. unblock Mar 2014 #27

We can still hear things proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #32

the difference between passive and active sonar -- unblock Mar 2014 #36

This is not a point that I can argue. proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #65

i worked on a darpa project involving active sonar unblock Mar 2014 #125

This is an interesting question. proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #29

The plan that crashed in 2009 going to Brazil wasn't found for 2 years. cbdo2007 Mar 2014 #33

plane was leaving Brazil, and wreckage was found the next day - the data recorders were found later Baclava Mar 2014 #47

The data recorders weren't found until almost 2 years later. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #77

that's what I said, but wreckage was found the next day or so, plane crashes can't hide in the ocean Baclava Mar 2014 #80

Fair enough. I'm forming my own theory.... A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #83

That's the same hypothesis I am coming to .... oldhippie Mar 2014 #184

Since the water is shallow (~75 meters) it may also limit the range of the black box pingers FarCenter Mar 2014 #35

Could you explain the physics behind that ...... oldhippie Mar 2014 #71

Sounds travels faster, and longer, the denser the object. MicaelS Mar 2014 #95

That is a great reference, but ..... oldhippie Mar 2014 #118

In shallow water, energy is absorbed in the bottom and the surface FarCenter Mar 2014 #115

Can they do a location history on passenger cellphones? jsr Mar 2014 #39

They weren't connecting to any cell towers jberryhill Mar 2014 #41

The GPS receivers don't communicate directly with the satellites? jsr Mar 2014 #53

No, they do not "communicate" with the satellites jberryhill Mar 2014 #59

Never mind. jsr Mar 2014 #62

Funny how we're told things like a satellite can read a lottery ticket accurately. If we're valerief Mar 2014 #42

There are about 48,000 planes in the air in any given 24 hour period. randome Mar 2014 #55

For a satellite to see it, you would have to tell it exactly where and at what focal length A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #81

Not freaked out. enlightenment Mar 2014 #46

Spy satellites sound pretty worthless now mainer Mar 2014 #51

Think of it as using a pair of binoculars to look across the room. jeff47 Mar 2014 #69

Spy satellites are not designed to look for things like that hack89 Mar 2014 #134

If it was bombed and disintegrated at 35,000 feet, as now seems likely GliderGuider Mar 2014 #56

I take it the other way. I don't think it broke up at altitude. Xithras Mar 2014 #88

All excellent points. Thanks! nt GliderGuider Mar 2014 #91

Maybe the large amount of garbage we throw in the oceans is obscuring the debris field? NickB79 Mar 2014 #150

IF it were destroyed by explosives in mid air Trajan Mar 2014 #96

I agree. We'll have to wait and see. nt GliderGuider Mar 2014 #98

If it WAS bombed and disintegrated at 35,000 feet... jmowreader Mar 2014 #103

That assumes a bomb large enough to make a flash NickB79 Mar 2014 #149

I'm flying in 2 weeks and I'm very disturbed by this ecstatic Mar 2014 #57

Airport Security is Kabuki Theater Savannahmann Mar 2014 #87

I just flew today ellie Mar 2014 #186

The one conclusion I draw is that the likelihood of terrorism as a cause decreases every day. DebJ Mar 2014 #61

Well yes and no....the Air Egypt flight that the pilot did a "Allah Akbar" when the copilot.. EX500rider Mar 2014 #124

Or if someone said "Jesus Christ!" jberryhill Mar 2014 #128

However when used before killing 217 people on purpose you can also draw a different conclusion. n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #131

Or jump to one jberryhill Mar 2014 #135

I am saying it was intentional because he flew the plane into the ocean on purpose. EX500rider Mar 2014 #138

Terrorism requires a threat; terrorist actions are meant to instigate some sort of DebJ Mar 2014 #142

Sometimes it's just about killing un-believers also. n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #143

And actually what he said was: "Tawkalt ala Allah", which translates to "I rely on God."... EX500rider Mar 2014 #133

Which means he may have been making a cognitive error jberryhill Mar 2014 #136

No doubt there. But on-purpose. n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #144

With all the technology we have today, isn't it reasonable to expect BlueStreak Mar 2014 #63

You're talking about an extremely severe situation. jeff47 Mar 2014 #72

The boxes are virtually indestructible today. That's not the problem. BlueStreak Mar 2014 #120

First, they are not virtually indestructible. jeff47 Mar 2014 #121

Yes, what's your point? BlueStreak Mar 2014 #137

That you can't just upsize. Larger components cause larger stresses in the device. jeff47 Mar 2014 #140

I didn't know that. Lends credence to my theory that we shot that plane down adigal Mar 2014 #139

Not really. jeff47 Mar 2014 #141

It seems counterintuitive, but does make sense adigal Mar 2014 #152

Jeff can come up with an argument for anything anybody says. The fact is BlueStreak Mar 2014 #155

Here is a list of black box problems BlueStreak Mar 2014 #160

Both the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder survived the flight 93 crash in PA whopis01 Mar 2014 #161

Maybe it fell up instead of down CreekDog Mar 2014 #73

A sudden gravity reversal? spin Mar 2014 #108

You can be sure the U.S. knows what happened, just not saying.. 2banon Mar 2014 #74

Maybe because...they don't know? brooklynite Mar 2014 #78

I beg to differ 2banon Mar 2014 #92

The technology may exist, but you have to know where to aim it. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #99

You actually believe the entire surface of the Earth is videotaped at all times? Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #185

No, this isn't a Bond Film 2banon Mar 2014 #237

Because when it happened all the sats were elsewhere doing their job? EX500rider Mar 2014 #127

Maybe they actually don't know. They aren't omniscient, for fuck's sake. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #181

that's simply not true backwoodsbob Mar 2014 #222

In that case, we shouldn't be throwing money away at these piles of junk floating in space 2banon Mar 2014 #228

why are you being so obtuse? backwoodsbob Mar 2014 #238

This message was self-deleted by its author brooklynite Mar 2014 #79

Maybe Iranian terrorists stole it. nt Zorra Mar 2014 #84

A strange thought crossed my mind this morning that it got hijacked and taken to Cleita Mar 2014 #147

It's a big ocean. longship Mar 2014 #93

We lost 4 on 9/11 Politicalboi Mar 2014 #104

Bollocks. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #105

Kinda what happens when you fly vertically into the ground at 500mph+ in a aluminum tube. n/t EX500rider Mar 2014 #130

yup. nt La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #148

aluminum tube! Renew Deal Mar 2014 #151

Google is your friend nt cpwm17 Mar 2014 #154

Radar Calista241 Mar 2014 #106

So if it was hijacked and transponders turned off adigal Mar 2014 #153

Transponders Calista241 Mar 2014 #170

The pilot turns the transponder off every time the plane lands. longship Mar 2014 #226

Same here treestar Mar 2014 #119

The plane I can find - it's the damned ignition key that eludes me jberryhill Mar 2014 #145

Well, Amelia Earhart disappeared into thin air too. Cleita Mar 2014 #146

I was thinking of her as I was reading this thread Samantha Mar 2014 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author Chemisse Mar 2014 #156

This article may help explain it for you. AF447 took 5 days to find any wreckage. uppityperson Mar 2014 #158

In 1956 a B-25 bomber ditched in the Monongahela river. It was witnessed. Some of the crew survived. LeftyMom Mar 2014 #166

is the area being searched larger than Delaware? CreekDog Mar 2014 #172

..... A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #173

. Jamastiene Mar 2014 #175

LOL JimDandy Mar 2014 #210

It's obvious...Aliens...mass abduction HipChick Mar 2014 #167

Isn't the Black Box Shankapotomus Mar 2014 #169

Yes Glassunion Mar 2014 #171

Yes, they will have to troll the water towing special equipment. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #182

That would explain why Shankapotomus Mar 2014 #194

I am not freaked out. Airplanes in the air are tracked by radar systems. bluestate10 Mar 2014 #176

They are now expanding their search area. Beacool Mar 2014 #180

It took 6 days to find the first debris from AF 447. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #187

Yes, but they tested the fuel and concluded that it came from ships. Beacool Mar 2014 #193

For a wider area search, they should use one of the big drones, like a Global Hawk FarCenter Mar 2014 #190

We lose an airplane for 2 really simple, stupid reasons BlueStreak Mar 2014 #201

It is surprising to me that a pilot can turn off the transponder mainer Mar 2014 #208

I agree on the transponder. Glassunion Mar 2014 #212

Even minimal vitals would be a huge step forward BlueStreak Mar 2014 #213

"Anyone else freaked out over this?" NealK Mar 2014 #203

How is it that on 9 Eleven, cell phone calls were made from the hijacked planes, yet KewlKat Mar 2014 #224

Uhhm! Because there are no cell towers in the Gulf of Thailand? longship Mar 2014 #227

We, as in the USA, did not lose this aircraft seveneyes Mar 2014 #229

I think this story has attracted a lot of attention because it's still a mystery what happened... fujiyama Mar 2014 #235

Spam deleted by MIR Team karanm8090 Sep 2019 #239