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struggle4progress

(126,184 posts)

130. All the alleged "nuance" is there from the very beginning. Review the actual Brian Ross interviews

Mon Mar 10, 2014, 02:07 PM

Mar 2014

from 2007. It's just slick apologetics: even in the first interview, Kiriakou claims to be deeply troubled by torture, but his take-home message is always that the US had no time to use more sophisticated methods, that waterboarding is extremely effective, and that he'd use the same techniques again. Quite a lot of what he said turned out later to be factually incorrect. Since then, his supporters preferentially cite his statements about his discomfort with torture to claim he was whistle-blowing -- but he wasn't: he was pushing the nice folksy-sounding line: Like you, I'm not comfortable with torture, but it really works incredibly well in an emergency, and I'd do it again

BRIAN ROSS: But given that you felt that-- water-boarding and the enhanced interrogation broke him, if you -- if somebody else was caught today, wouldn't you wanna use those same techniques?
JOHN: I think that I would be very tempted to use the same techniques. I --
BRIAN ROSS: In other words, in your view, they -- they do work?
JOHN: I-- yes, they do work.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/Blotter/brianross_kiriakou_transcript1_blotter071210.pdf
http://abcnews.go.com/images/Blotter/brianross_kiriakou_transcript2_blotter071210.pdf

... it's important to recall that Kiriakou's role in the media debate over torture was, in effect, to endorse the practice–albeit with some caveats.
Is John Kiriakou a Whistleblower?
By Peter Hart

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Torture Whistleblower: I got 30 months in prison. Why does Leon Panetta get a pass? [View all] cali Mar 2014 OP

Except Kiriakou lied about waterboarding. It was a limited hangout at best CJCRANE Mar 2014 #1

I'm having a hard time finding where Kirikou lied cited in that Wikipedia entry dballance Mar 2014 #4

His motivation was to defend the practice. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #5

Leon Panetta went from the CIA to the DoD, which conveniently gave his staff TwilightGardener Mar 2014 #2

This is ProSense Mar 2014 #3

Lying to Congress is a crime hootinholler Mar 2014 #6

Tell that to Darryl Issa CJCRANE Mar 2014 #7

If the Senate feels it would be appropriate, the Senate has options for action against Clapper struggle4progress Mar 2014 #9

So does Obama. n/t xocet Mar 2014 #12

Exactly. deurbano Mar 2014 #18

The Senate lies in a different branch of government from the Executive, and so struggle4progress Mar 2014 #21

that is absurd dsc Mar 2014 #25

Do we possess (say) any official act of the Senate indicating that the Senate is outraged somehow? struggle4progress Mar 2014 #28

This isn't some Talmudic matter of interpretation dsc Mar 2014 #31

The Senate's outrage is to be gauged by the actual outrage expressed by the Senate itself: struggle4progress Mar 2014 #33

I don't care if the Senate is outraged or it isn't dsc Mar 2014 #37

Don't feed the trolls pscot Mar 2014 #53

That stand will leave you entirely without any firm ground under your feet, struggle4progress Mar 2014 #56

I am not arguing the inverse dsc Mar 2014 #63

I wonder what your opinion of this is dsc Mar 2014 #82

It's standard Washington baseball: something important is happening at third base, struggle4progress Mar 2014 #88

Just how can oversight occur dsc Mar 2014 #92

How do you know that? MADem Mar 2014 #101

sure he didn't dsc Mar 2014 #114

You wouldn't know--neither would I--if he wrote a classified letter to the committee. MADem Mar 2014 #121

It seems to be your view, that a hundred Senators together with their staffs cannot parse Clapper, struggle4progress Mar 2014 #115

I love the "Every Little Sparrow" pile-ons when it comes to Obama.... MADem Mar 2014 #100

I would like a quote of me doing any of the above dsc Mar 2014 #117

This is another example of Washington baseball, and once again you've been distracted struggle4progress Mar 2014 #129

Presidents can't fire people? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #122

When the subject under discsussion is some questionable act Marr Mar 2014 #123

Very well put. Wouldn't it be easier to face facts? I couldn't do the contortions it takes to try sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #125

Why? To satisfy Senators Rand Paul and Lindsey Graham? Or to satisfy Republican Representatives struggle4progress Mar 2014 #127

How about because it's the right thing to do? Do you refrain from doing what is right just to stick sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #128

Translation: you consider yourself the final arbiter of what's right struggle4progress Mar 2014 #132

Lying to Congress ISN"T wrong? No my idea regarding firing liars, and prosecuting war criminals who sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #133

Who in Congress says Clapper lied? In the Senate, I find Rand Paul; in the House, I find struggle4progress Mar 2014 #134

There's no statute of limitations on lying to Congress that I know of. And Ron Wyden is sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #136

Ron Wyden has never to my knowledge described Clapper's testimony as a lie struggle4progress Mar 2014 #137

Nope. It is the responsibility of Congress to hold people accountable--or not--for contempt. MADem Mar 2014 #65

So when Nixon's henchmen lied to Congress dsc Mar 2014 #81

It is the responsibility of Congress to impose consequences for that. MADem Mar 2014 #84

One of the reasons they forced him to dsc Mar 2014 #85

Well, if that is what you want to believe, you go right ahead. MADem Mar 2014 #86

the whole point of Watergate was the misdeeds of his staff at his behest dsc Mar 2014 #118

Here are the actual articles of impeachment struggle4progress Mar 2014 #131

"Clapper should have said he can't answer in an unclassified forum, but he chose to lie." ProSense Mar 2014 #13

No it wouldn't have been a lie dsc Mar 2014 #26

Eh...not really. Lying is not itself a crime, unless the elements of perjury are met. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #16

Kiriakou pled guilty to violating the Intelligence Identities Protection Act struggle4progress Mar 2014 #8

Same reason PFC Manning rots in prison instead of war criminals Bush and Cheney. Octafish Mar 2014 #10

Is that really what you are asserting? Manning is the same as a torture defender? See #8 nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #14

No. I'm asserting a government that lets Bush and Cheney go is corrupt. Octafish Mar 2014 #36

Indeed! There is no law for them and plenty of law for the 99%. Justice? pffft L0oniX Mar 2014 #57

You said the treatment of this torture defender is the same as Manning. So you are comparing the two stevenleser Mar 2014 #59

comey is a torture defender questionseverything Mar 2014 #77

Wow, you must have had a hard time spinning that one! Rex Mar 2014 #44

Obviously not since several other folks got the same impression stevenleser Mar 2014 #58

Um...John Kiriakou thought waterboarding was a good thing. I'm betting Chelsea Manning msanthrope Mar 2014 #17

Really nice smear, msanthrope. Octafish Mar 2014 #34

You are the one who brought up Manning. Not me. Frankly, I'm puzzled why you msanthrope Mar 2014 #38

Kiriakou exposed the waterboarding. Octafish Mar 2014 #48

Yes, he was a proponent of waterboarding. If you didn't know that, that is on you, but you have the stevenleser Mar 2014 #62

YES!!! HE WAS TOTALLY OKAY WITH IT!!! He lied to the American people about the msanthrope Mar 2014 #94

The truth was going to come out. Kiriakou served to blunt the impact of the real revelations CJCRANE Mar 2014 #39

They never give up do they? Rex Mar 2014 #40

There is a difference between "whistleblowing" and a "limited hangout". CJCRANE Mar 2014 #46

This message was self-deleted by its author CJCRANE Mar 2014 #49

''Everyone is corrupt, I�ve come to learn,'' John Kiriakou said. Octafish Mar 2014 #74

Who got "charged" or "investigated" for outing Agent Valerie Plame? bvar22 Mar 2014 #11

How gauche! All good Americans know that it is impolite to look and/or lean backward. xocet Mar 2014 #19

My momma always told me that my bad manners was why we couldn't have nice things. bvar22 Mar 2014 #22

Thanks for the Seinfeld video clip. xocet Mar 2014 #24

I love puns, but sadly, bvar22 Mar 2014 #29

YEP. Rex Mar 2014 #42

Brewster Jennings & Assoc. FOUGHT NUCLEAR WEAPONS THEFT. Octafish Mar 2014 #47

Hmmm I think it was Scooter Libby ...who was almost immediatly pardoned by... L0oniX Mar 2014 #60

The original leaker was Richard Armitage, from the State department, and technically, hughee99 Mar 2014 #120

That Armitage "confession" was just muddying the water as part of the cover-up struggle4progress Mar 2014 #135

And, the perpetrators of the actual waterboarding got a pass. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #15

what he said. librechik Mar 2014 #20

It's OK when our team does it because GO TEAM! nt JJChambers Mar 2014 #23

Waterboarding is never okay--this was the man who said it was--it was effective. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #43

Oh stop it will ya? There are Acts that protect whistleblowers. L0oniX Mar 2014 #27

I think Kiriakou was a neocon shill rather than a whistleblower. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #30

Yes, he was claiming that waterboarding works. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #32

Exactly. He claimed that they only waterboarded Abu Zubaydah for 30 seconds CJCRANE Mar 2014 #35

There are acts that protect whistleblowers. You seem rather upset and have resorted to personal msanthrope Mar 2014 #41

"personal attacks" Really? Ok ...now it's all about you? Whatever. L0oniX Mar 2014 #54

Indeed--in the other thread, it was quite clear who you were referencing with this post-- msanthrope Mar 2014 #67

"Look, I get that you are upset with your mother" <--- is that wimpy personal insult all you got? L0oniX Mar 2014 #73

I don't personally insult DUers--particularly those who are exhibiting as much pain and distress as msanthrope Mar 2014 #89

"I'm merely asking you to work out your family issues" LMAO L0oniX Mar 2014 #90

My DU betters? Look, it's pretty obvious you are upset with me. And, that you msanthrope Mar 2014 #91

"you have conflated with problems with your mother" LMAO ...imagination is all you got. L0oniX Mar 2014 #93

Why not put me on ignore, since I stress you out so much? nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #95

Oh boy ...seen this before ...the ol begging to be put on ignore blather. L0oniX Mar 2014 #96

Oh..I'm not begging you to, merely suggesting it for your sake. nt msanthrope Mar 2014 #98

"for your sake" Your concern is touching. L0oniX Mar 2014 #99

K&R for pissing off all the RIGHT people! Rex Mar 2014 #45

There are two issues here: CJCRANE Mar 2014 #50

And once again, you assert argumentum ad hominem as a valid practice. Noted again. nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #61

Says all we need to know truebluegreen Mar 2014 #51

so you really meant to put "white" and "house" underthematrix Mar 2014 #52

? I was quoting. truebluegreen Mar 2014 #55

K & R !!! WillyT Mar 2014 #64

thats because we have a criminal justice system rafeh1 Mar 2014 #66

Good one. nm rhett o rick Mar 2014 #69

It amazes me that we have posters here that consistently disparage whistle-blowers rhett o rick Mar 2014 #68

Kiriakou shilled for the neocons. He was a torture apologist. I know which side I'm on. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #70

I respect your dislike of Kiriakou but that should be beside the point. The point as I see it is rhett o rick Mar 2014 #71

Yes, he was treated badly but he was a propagandist not a whistleblower. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #79

NOT a Propagandist for BUSH! KoKo Mar 2014 #103

How �07 ABC Interview Tilted a Torture Debate struggle4progress Mar 2014 #109

Working with Senator Kerry was "Shilling for Neocons?" KoKo Mar 2014 #104

In his initial TV interview he sold the effectiveness of waterboarding. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #106

i think this is because obama is in charge, if the same thing happened under bush La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #72

How true. n/t xocet Mar 2014 #75

I agree, but how sad. nm rhett o rick Mar 2014 #76

Kiriakou was a propagandist for Bush. People are re-writing history to make a point. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #80

Kiriakou was No Propagandist for Bush..Here's the Scoop on him--LINK: KoKo Mar 2014 #102

Thanks for the link. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #105

He changed ProSense Mar 2014 #107

Reporter Says He First Learned of C.I.A. Operative From Rove ProSense Mar 2014 #87

It doesn't amaze me at all. sibelian Mar 2014 #78

Imprisoning the truth tellers and protecting the criminals. woo me with science Mar 2014 #83

yes, the Feds get mad at employees who "whistle-blow" over their heads or by-pass official channels Sunlei Mar 2014 #97

Oh Cali, Cali Woman! Why you be rocking de boat? Catherina Mar 2014 #108

He was pally with the corporate media. He did friendly interviews extolling the virtues of torture. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #110

I wasn't clear, I was talking about how the corporate media treated him after Catherina Mar 2014 #111

Thanks for the link. His story is more nuanced than I realized. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #113

If only we had an honest media. Thanks CJCRANE n/t Catherina Mar 2014 #116

All the alleged "nuance" is there from the very beginning. Review the actual Brian Ross interviews struggle4progress Mar 2014 #130

*Still* being slimed. woo me with science Mar 2014 #112

K&R woo me with science Mar 2014 #119

k & r! n/t wildbilln864 Mar 2014 #124

Hypocrisy and the results of cognitive dissonance are the norm ...nt MindMover Mar 2014 #126

kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #138