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polly7

(20,582 posts)
126. ...........
Mon Mar 10, 2014, 03:12 PM
Mar 2014

Carnival in Crimea

THE ROVING EYE
Carnival in Crimea
By Pepe Escobar

Time waits for no one, but apparently will wait for Crimea. The speaker of the Crimean parliament, Vladimir Konstantinov, has confirmed there will be a referendum on greater autonomy from Ukraine on May 25.

Until then, Crimea will be as hot and steamy as carnival in Rio - because Crimea is all about Sevastopol, the port of call for the Russian Black Sea fleet.

If the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is a bull, this is the red flag to end all red flags. Even if you're deep in alcohol nirvana dancin' your troubles away at carnival in Rio - or New Orleans, or Venice, or Trinidad and Tobago - your brain will have registered that NATO's ultimate wet dream is to command a Western puppet Ukrainian government to kick the Russian navy out of its base in Sevastopol. The negotiated lease applies until 2042. Threats and rumors of reneging it have already emerged.

The absolute majority of the Crimean peninsula is populated by Russian speakers. Very few Ukrainians live there. In 1954, it took only 15 minutes for Ukrainian Nikita Krushchev - he of the banging shoe at the UN floor - to give Crimea as a free gift to Ukraine (then part of the USSR). In Russia, Crimea is perceived as Russian. Nothing will change that fact.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-05-280214.html


Pro-Russian Crimeans welcome Moscow's decision to send troops

Pro-Russian residents in Crimea's largest cities have shown their approval for Moscow's decision to send additional troops to the Ukrainian peninsula. But not everyone is happy that the crisis has taken this turn.

http://www.dw.de/image/0,,17467431_303,00.jpg
Cars flying Russian flags passed cheering people on the streets of Sevastopol and Simferopol on Saturday (01.03.2014) as pro-Russian Crimeans welcomed the unanimous decision by the Russian parliament to approve the use of the armed forces in Ukraine.

The news followed an earlier decision to move up a referendum on the status of the semi-autonomous region from May 25 to March 30, a decision that was greeted with enthusiasm by Crimea's Russian community, who make up about 60 percent of the population. The referendum could be the first step towards greater independence for the peninsula, and could lead to a possible secession from Ukraine or even a decision to join the Russian Federation.

Symbol of bravery

On Saturday, mass rallies were held in Crimea's two major cities. In Sevastopol, a crowd estimated at more than 5,000 people gathered in the main square, not far from the city's administration building.

Pro-Russian residents of Sevastopol wear the St. George's Ribbon

Many Crimeans have been waving Russian flags and wearing the St. George's Ribbon

They chanted "Rossiya, Rossiya!" and many wore the St. George's Ribbon, a well-known Russian symbol of military valor that is worn in remembrance of the victory over Nazi Germany. In 1941-1942, the seaport of Sevastopol was the scene of one of the fiercest battles of World War II. Russia's Black Sea Fleet is still stationed in the city today under a lease agreement with the Ukrainian government.
Rarely has the atmosphere here been so politically charged. In cafes, grocery stores and on the street, politics is all anyone talks about. Until very recently, it was completely different. "Normally, it's very, very quiet," said Galina, a small business owner. "We stayed silent during the protests in Kyiv, up until the new government decided to overturn the language law. That was the last straw.
Suddenly, 30,000 people filled this square."

http://www.dw.de/pro-russian-crimeans-welcome-moscows-decision-to-send-troops/a-17467545

The Russian Stronghold in Ukraine Preparing to Fight the Revolution

Lawmakers and worried citizens in the pro-Russia Crimea consider their options

By Simon Shuster / Sevastopol @shustryFeb. 23, 2014525

A Ukrainian woman holds a Soviet flag during a rally in the industrial city of Donetsk, in eastern Ukraine, on Feb. 22, 2014
The busload of officers only began to feel safe when they entered the Crimean peninsula. Through the night on Friday, they drove the length of Ukraine from north to south, having abandoned the capital city of Kiev to the revolution. Along the way the protesters in several towns pelted their bus with eggs, rocks and, at one point, what looked to be blood before the retreating officers realized it was only ketchup. “People were screaming, cursing at us,” recalls one of the policemen, Vlad Roditelev.

Finally, on Saturday morning, the bus reached the refuge of Crimea, the only chunk of Ukraine where the revolution has failed to take hold. Connected to the mainland by two narrow passes, this huge peninsula on the Black Sea has long been a land apart, an island of Russian nationalism in a nation drifting toward Europe. One of its biggest cities, Sevastopol, is home to a Russian naval base that houses around 25,000 troops, and most Crimean residents identify themselves as Russians, not Ukrainians.

So when the forces of the revolution took over the national parliament on Friday, pledging to rid Ukraine of Russian influence and integrate with Europe, the people of Crimea panicked. Some began to form militias, others sent distress calls to the Kremlin. And if the officers of the Berkut riot police are now despised throughout the rest of the country for killing dozens of protesters in Kiev this week, they were welcomed in Crimea as heroes.

For Ukraine’s revolutionary leaders, that presents an urgent problem. In a matter of days, their sympathizers managed to seize nearly the entire country, including some of the most staunchly pro-Russian regions of eastern Ukraine. But they have made barely any headway on the Crimean peninsula. On the contrary, the revolution has given the ethnic Russian majority in Crimea their best chance ever to break away from Kiev’s rule and come back under the control of Russia. “An opportunity like this has never come along,” says Tatyana Yermakova, the head of the Russian Community of Sevastopol, a civil-society group in Crimea.

Read more: Crimea, Russian Stronghold in Ukraine, Is Ready to Fight Revolution | TIME.com http://world.time.com/2014/02/23/the-russian-stronghold-in-ukraine-preparing-to-fight-the-revolution/#ixzz2upQsd8u7
http://world.time.com/2014/02/23/the-russian-stronghold-in-ukraine-preparing-to-fight-the-revolution/
http://www.trbimg.com/img-5311cfa7/turbine/lat-crimearussianflags-wre0015647375-20140301/600

Pro-Russia demonstrators wave the colors of Russian military valor at an anti-American rally in Simferopol, in the Crimea region of Ukraine. The sign says, "We will free Ukraine from American occupation." (Sean Gallup, Getty Images / March 1, 2014)

By Sergei L. Loiko
March 1, 2014, 4:36 a.m.

KIEV, Ukraine -- Crimea's new pro-Moscow premier, Sergei Aksenov, moved the date of the peninsula's status referendum to March 30.
On Thursday, the Crimean parliament, which appointed Aksenov, had called for a referendum on May 25, the date also set for the urgent presidential election in Ukraine.

“In connection with a necessity we decided to speed up the holding of the referendum on the stauts of the Autonomous Republic of the Crimea,” Aksenov said Saturday in Simferopol at a new government session, the UNIAN information agency reported.

Earlier that day, Aksenov, head of the nationalist Russian Unity organization, appealed to Russian President Vladimir Putin “to render assistance in securing peace and tranquility on the territory of the Autonomous Republic of the Crimea," UNIAN reported.
http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-crimea-referendum-date-20140301,0,2305350.story#ixzz2upSDz443


http://zcomm.org/znetarticle/ukraine-revolts-dark-side/

Ukraine Revolt’s Dark Side

By Conn Hallinan
Source: Dispatches From The Edge
March 3, 2014

......"Svoboda would stop immigration and reserve civil service jobs for “ethnic Ukrainians.” It would end abortion, gun control, “ban the Communist Ideology,” and list religious affiliation and ethnicity on identity documents. It claims as its mentor the Nazi-collaborator Stephan Bandera, whose Ukrainian Insurgent Army massacred Jews and Poles during World war II. The Party’s demand that all official business be conducted in Ukrainian was recently endorsed by the parliament, disenfranchising 30 percent of the country’s population that speaks Russian. Russian speakers are generally concentrated in the Ukraine’s east and south, and particularly in the Crimean Peninsula.

The U.S. and the EU have hailed the resignation of President Yanukovych and the triumph of “people power” over the elected government – Ambassador Pyatt called it “a day for the history books” –but what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Prior to the deployment of Russian troops this past week anti-coup, pro-Russian crowds massed in the streets in the Crimea’s capital, Simferopol, and seized government buildings. While there was little support for the ousted president-who most Ukrainians believe is corrupt-there was deep anger at the de-recognition of the Russian language and contempt for what many said were “fascists” in Kiev and Lviv."

Still trying to conflate apples with oranges? nt rdharma Mar 2014 #1
Still making cryptic, unspecified statements? nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #2
'NO' is the answer to that question. 'NO' putsch and 'NO' WMD's in Iraq. nt rdharma Mar 2014 #7
To what "putsch" are you referring? nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #11
The putsch in the Ukraine. Where have you been? nt rdharma Mar 2014 #13
Let me try to get you down on an actual position here. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #16
Yes, it was a putsch. Are you claiming otherwise? rdharma Mar 2014 #31
What does that have to do with your position on Crimea and Russian intervention? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #45
Who said anything about a "military" coup? A putsch headed by fascist thugs also qualifies...... rdharma Mar 2014 #54
Are you going to answer the question? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #57
The entire mess started with the "putsch"... nt rdharma Mar 2014 #62
Sigh. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #69
You got my answer...... rdharma Mar 2014 #71
Okay. So you view Russia's actions as justified. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #73
I really think that person is putting us on. I dont think anyone could actually believe those stevenleser Mar 2014 #113
Well under that thinking, I'm sure he would have supported the US invasion of Iraq. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #115
I just pointed out that very thing to a Russian expat attempting to defend Putin on FB. stevenleser Mar 2014 #120
You seem to have a unique take on this lark Mar 2014 #101
You are correct. polly7 Mar 2014 #114
Russia has had forces in Crimea since the late 18th century. polly7 Mar 2014 #123
For there to be "protection", there would have to be an actual threat. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #125
........... polly7 Mar 2014 #126
I disagree with the premise laundry_queen Mar 2014 #131
Am I mistaken, or is France not across the ocean from Quebec??? polly7 Mar 2014 #132
Well, that's good to know that you support the break up of Canada. laundry_queen Mar 2014 #133
I believe any people who feel their interests aren't represented under a gov't polly7 Mar 2014 #135
Again, I disagree. laundry_queen Mar 2014 #136
Sorry, I disagree with pretty much everything you've just said above. polly7 Mar 2014 #137
Yeah. No. nt laundry_queen Mar 2014 #138
Yeah, no, but wtf cares? Not I. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #139
Don't forget that the Russians refuse to send their troops back to their amandabeech Mar 2014 #95
Good points. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #119
Are we still droning people in other parts of the world using 9/11/War on Terror, where sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #24
Do you, Sabrina1, have the moral authority.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #32
That's a good question. I might think I do, but then I know that people would have the right to sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #65
The invasion of Iraq was illegal, correct? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #3
Unfortunately, they remain unpunished. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #4
If your dog is taking massive dumps in other people's yards Fumesucker Mar 2014 #6
Great reply, Fumesucker! rdharma Mar 2014 #8
The relationship between a people and its elected officials is far more complex... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #9
Why's it OK if our politicians do stuff like this but we must speak up if foreign politicians do it? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #14
Because we are dealing with the here and now. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #20
In the here and now our own criminals are on the damn TV telling us how to run things still Fumesucker Mar 2014 #22
And we can and should ignore them. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #23
It makes it blantantly obvious what the ultimate rule is Fumesucker Mar 2014 #26
do you approach discussions of international law, war, and human rights geek tragedy Mar 2014 #25
Ignoring what your own dog has done makes you someone committed to principles how? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #30
who said anything about ignoring? geek tragedy Mar 2014 #33
Of course if you don't punish your dog's behavior you are doing nothing to change it Fumesucker Mar 2014 #36
So, you favor a criminal justice system that relies on harsh punishment geek tragedy Mar 2014 #39
Swatting the butt with a newspaper is "harsh"? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #46
the US suffered more than a swat on the butt from its invasion of Iraq geek tragedy Mar 2014 #53
What did the instigators of the Iraq war "suffer"? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #55
besides losing Congress in 2006 and the White House in 2008? nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #60
The 22nd Amendment has been superceded? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #96
I can swat the government on its behind for pooping in the neighbors yard... LanternWaste Mar 2014 #104
The point is that we may speak up no matter what government is doing bad things. amandabeech Mar 2014 #100
Of course you can speak up if you wish Fumesucker Mar 2014 #140
except that an absurd comparison. deplomacy IS the art of hypocrisy cali Mar 2014 #12
The end justifies the means? Fumesucker Mar 2014 #15
because there's nothing in that post that says anything of the kind cali Mar 2014 #59
"Diplomacy is the art of saying nice doggy until you can find a rock." Will Rogers Fumesucker Mar 2014 #75
I think it is possible to oppose all dump taking dogs as a citizen of the planet Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #17
The nationalist part is where you ignore the fact your own dog remains unpunished Fumesucker Mar 2014 #21
can you name a nation that has punished a head of state geek tragedy Mar 2014 #29
Ultimately the only actual rule is that might makes right Fumesucker Mar 2014 #34
that is the rule that benefits the powerful. a law-based regime geek tragedy Mar 2014 #37
The law means nothing without enforcement.. Fumesucker Mar 2014 #44
let's use your punish the dog analogy--the dog here is Putin. geek tragedy Mar 2014 #49
No, we should whack *our* dog's nose, that would make it appear we were serious about this behavior Fumesucker Mar 2014 #58
one need not be wholly consistent to be serious nt geek tragedy Mar 2014 #61
One can be seriously amusing without even knowing it too n/t Fumesucker Mar 2014 #68
Nope, your claim is nationalism in the negative, mine is that of a citizen of earth who Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #85
I can see it from both sides and my citizen of earth side is disgusted and opposed too Fumesucker Mar 2014 #86
Why not just say that then? Because using your other string of logic, you have no Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #91
Because I'm imperfect and don't always express myself in the fashion others would have of me Fumesucker Mar 2014 #93
Not just unpunished.but rewarded zeemike Mar 2014 #97
/thread LittleBlue Mar 2014 #124
Same thing that happened to the invader of Georgia. joshcryer Mar 2014 #141
After the west heaped blame on Russia for the conflict, it ignores new evidence of Georgia's crimes polly7 Mar 2014 #142
Georgia, like Ukraine, is in the Eurasia roadmap. joshcryer Mar 2014 #145
I can honestly say yes to that. The day it happened I sat watching the TV with my family. While they jwirr Mar 2014 #5
I remember thinking at the time Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #48
Mine was a policy issue. I thought we should fight terrorism by using the law enforcement agencies. jwirr Mar 2014 #56
I don't understand the argument about lacking moral authority to criticize Russia over Ukraine Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2014 #10
No, I was more concerned that it was a moronic, destructive thing to do. bemildred Mar 2014 #18
Heh. Solly Mack Mar 2014 #38
I consider people more important than "sovereign territory" bhikkhu Mar 2014 #19
There were actually refererndums that were already scheduled as to full Crimean autonomy. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #27
"Referendums that were sanctioned by the Ukrainian government" effectively went out the window...... rdharma Mar 2014 #43
I don't understand your point at all. President Obama, VP Biden, Sec of State Kerry Bandit Mar 2014 #66
To their credit, they indeed have condemned it. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #72
So your argument is with SOME people here at DU and not the USA? Bandit Mar 2014 #77
Other than the fact dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #28
So, France, Germany, China, and Russia all should have STFU when geek tragedy Mar 2014 #35
Practically all European nations also lack moral authority then treestar Mar 2014 #51
I don't disagree with you but the subject of the OP is the US. dipsydoodle Mar 2014 #83
The subject is the invasion of Iraq. UK had a bit to do with that. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #90
is it incumbent upon every nation to remain silent regarding the aggression of any other country? LanternWaste Mar 2014 #108
Get thee hence to the greatest page. riqster Mar 2014 #40
I await the reports of the use of white phosphorus in the Ukraine. sibelian Mar 2014 #41
It might be as bad as what happened in Iraq. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #52
Woot, there it is! +1000. nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #105
So you were for Iraq? joshcryer Mar 2014 #144
I F'ing sure as hell was. Phlem Mar 2014 #42
Yes, not buying that we cannot condemn Russia's invasion treestar Mar 2014 #47
Sophistry reddread Mar 2014 #50
Whose sophistry? nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #89
This is stupid. Crimea wants to be part of Russia - let it be part of Russia. reformist2 Mar 2014 #63
As I mentioned before..... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #70
Multiple reasons... HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #82
There was already an election scheduled for who would govern Ukraine. Why was that abandoned? JVS Mar 2014 #143
R#8 for, solid points, articulately made. n/t UTUSN Mar 2014 #64
I agree with you, and would go further.., Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #67
"[H]e oversaw the withdraw of combat troops from Iraq." OnyxCollie Mar 2014 #74
Obama simply followed the George Fucking Bush timetable for getting out of Iraq Lasher Mar 2014 #147
Nope, it doesn't work that way. And "do as we say, not as we do", most people don't find that quinnox Mar 2014 #76
Russia had a military base at the very tip of Crimea. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #79
Let's say we agreed it is technically illegal, that still doesn't mean much quinnox Mar 2014 #81
Your point one is in need of context. 'Mostly Russian' because after WW2 Crimea's Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #87
You obviously have a greater handle on the history there than I do quinnox Mar 2014 #94
I remember crying go west young man Mar 2014 #78
I just listened to your song--twice. classof56 Mar 2014 #98
What a beautiful song! polly7 Mar 2014 #102
Thanks you guys. go west young man Mar 2014 #117
You've got a real gift to put what so many of us were feeling and thinking polly7 Mar 2014 #121
Cheers... go west young man Mar 2014 #130
One aspect of the Iraq insanity that is often overlooked is this: randome Mar 2014 #80
Zorra Iraq site:democraticunderground.com (about 420,000 results in 0.48 seconds) nt Zorra Mar 2014 #84
Yes. Igel Mar 2014 #88
You're right. It's one thing if Kerry condemns them and another if Rumsfeld does it.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2014 #92
So you are claiming that since Obama is ONLY mass slaughtering civilians with drones... Demo_Chris Mar 2014 #99
+1, fully agree! quinnox Mar 2014 #107
I do not know what the angles are on some of these posts. proudretiredvet Mar 2014 #103
I have a question, if our only warm water seaport was in Crimea what would we do? I don't think doc03 Mar 2014 #106
Ahem. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #116
Sochi can accommodate two cruise ships, they need a warm water port for their navy doc03 Mar 2014 #146
We, our, or us? Just who are you talking about? fleabiscuit Mar 2014 #109
Iraq? That's just across the border from Texas, right? RufusTFirefly Mar 2014 #110
Mr. Carcetti, I didn't support the Iraq War. saidsimplesimon Mar 2014 #111
The problem is, people are conflating intervention and military intervention. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #118
The **Moral Authority** of the United States was greatly diminished by illegal invasion & torture. Martin Eden Mar 2014 #112
over 100 years ago. a proud tradition. reddread Mar 2014 #122
Sorry no. Besides lives, $3trllion, Bush also spent our moral authority on point Mar 2014 #127
Well, the only other real choice is to remain silent on the situation. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2014 #128
Us as a country are a laugh and counter productive. Us as world citizens is a different matter on point Mar 2014 #148
I live in the US, not Russia. Damansarajaya Mar 2014 #129
Whatever (questionable) moral authority we ever had drowned in the Gulf of Tonkin. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #134
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