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In reply to the discussion: So is every complaint about Obama wrong? Or some people just don't like to hear them? [View all]dmallind
(10,437 posts)101. Let's parse this
People have legit complaints about Obama
True
Unless you think Obama is perfect and has been the perfect liberal.
A claim only ever made by his passionate detractors so they can "win" a point by knocking down a strawman of their own invention.
it seems many Obama defenders get so defensive about any complaint about Obama.
Any? Nope. Silly ones that he's just like Bush? That's not defensiveness believe me - it's pure unadulterated, and above all deserved scorn at the idiots who claim it.
"Obama is wrong not to veto indefinite detention" met with "Obama has done 1000 liberal things, here is the list!!!"??? The damn post is not about what Obama has done right, we all know he has done stuff right, it is discussing things he should have done that he didn't.
How many complaints about Obama are simple factual statements without hyperbole (the end of habeas corpus!) or flat out lies (Any American can be imprisoned at will forever!)? They are generally met with facts too. The post may be about what he has done wrong, but the few that get the response you caricature generally make it either explicit or very strongly implicit that he has done nothing else.
Obama should be liberal. Always. That is a given.
Not really. He campaigned - repeatedly and consistently - on being willing and eager to try a bipartisan approach and incorporate Republican input. I can't recall any campaign promise to always take the most liberal approach.
Why is complaining about him not being liberal at times met with "quit picking on Obama"? Sometimes he needs called out.
Yes he does, but not for everything he IS called out on at DU, not because he doesn't meet some unattainable and subjective ideal of always gaining or even seeking 100% success for the most left-leaning option.
Complaints about Obama are much more respectfully heard when they are factual, when they point out realistic alternatives he could have possibly taken (not silliness such as "he should remove every single soldier on foreign soil immediately!" ) and when they are not couched in emotionally charged vitriol.
My own musing is why so many of his detractors think DU is against them en masse when every single "Obama is a Republican fascist warmonger" thread gets triple digit recs and gleeful piling on "me too"s, and DU polls consistently show only 28-30% support for him here.
Tell me - what response should a post like "I'm glad Obama kept his promise and got all the troops out of Iraq by the end of the year" receive? What response IS the most normal? What does that tell you?
True
Unless you think Obama is perfect and has been the perfect liberal.
A claim only ever made by his passionate detractors so they can "win" a point by knocking down a strawman of their own invention.
it seems many Obama defenders get so defensive about any complaint about Obama.
Any? Nope. Silly ones that he's just like Bush? That's not defensiveness believe me - it's pure unadulterated, and above all deserved scorn at the idiots who claim it.
"Obama is wrong not to veto indefinite detention" met with "Obama has done 1000 liberal things, here is the list!!!"??? The damn post is not about what Obama has done right, we all know he has done stuff right, it is discussing things he should have done that he didn't.
How many complaints about Obama are simple factual statements without hyperbole (the end of habeas corpus!) or flat out lies (Any American can be imprisoned at will forever!)? They are generally met with facts too. The post may be about what he has done wrong, but the few that get the response you caricature generally make it either explicit or very strongly implicit that he has done nothing else.
Obama should be liberal. Always. That is a given.
Not really. He campaigned - repeatedly and consistently - on being willing and eager to try a bipartisan approach and incorporate Republican input. I can't recall any campaign promise to always take the most liberal approach.
Why is complaining about him not being liberal at times met with "quit picking on Obama"? Sometimes he needs called out.
Yes he does, but not for everything he IS called out on at DU, not because he doesn't meet some unattainable and subjective ideal of always gaining or even seeking 100% success for the most left-leaning option.
Complaints about Obama are much more respectfully heard when they are factual, when they point out realistic alternatives he could have possibly taken (not silliness such as "he should remove every single soldier on foreign soil immediately!" ) and when they are not couched in emotionally charged vitriol.
My own musing is why so many of his detractors think DU is against them en masse when every single "Obama is a Republican fascist warmonger" thread gets triple digit recs and gleeful piling on "me too"s, and DU polls consistently show only 28-30% support for him here.
Tell me - what response should a post like "I'm glad Obama kept his promise and got all the troops out of Iraq by the end of the year" receive? What response IS the most normal? What does that tell you?
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So is every complaint about Obama wrong? Or some people just don't like to hear them? [View all]
Logical
Dec 2011
OP
The "Obama is for Wall St" is pure bullshit and based only on guilt by association
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#1
You ASSUME you know completely and totally EXACTLY why he chose as he did. You don't.
patrice
Dec 2011
#49
The people appointed to government were ideological kin to those in the private sector that caused
DireStrike
Dec 2011
#123
You have a point there regarding Summers. He is a free market liberal by nature.
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#127
AIG repaid the "claims" as I said -- you are not careful with words (the goldman money that really
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#155
But the payment on that claim did not rescue Goldman - it rescued the largest insurer in the world
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#195
Absolute nonsense. Gramm-Leach or Glass-Steagall did not regulate mortgages in the LEAST BIT.
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#133
Wrong. We have been securitizing the vast majority of mortgages in the USA for 50 years.
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#148
one must be really ignorant to think G-L-B caused prices to skyrocket and not DEMAND.
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#221
OMG. Do you not knw the roles Summers and Rubin played in persuading Bill Clinton
PA Democrat
Dec 2011
#154
Wrong - Gramm-Leach had nothing to do with the housing bubble and mortgage crisis.
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#169
So you start a new thread and mischaracterize what other posters have said.
PA Democrat
Dec 2011
#201
No - the new thread is more germane - Govt bureacrats vs Ayn Rand free markets?
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#206
He should be judged by his actions. He appointed conservatives like Jeff Immelt. He has prosecuted
rhett o rick
Dec 2011
#215
Hey, Obama stated way back when that he should be called out. Damn, there are many things that I
teddy51
Dec 2011
#2
one cannot investigate a previous administration for things one is doing oneself. nt
msongs
Dec 2011
#5
all of which he never once gave the slightest hint he would do while campaigning.
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#8
OWS supports equal rights for all. No Rick Warren, no McClurkin they are not
Bluenorthwest
Dec 2011
#89
DADT repeal - ending defense of marriage act enforcement by the Justice Dept (N/T)
DWilliamsamh
Dec 2011
#122
for some people, there will never be anything he could do to make up for the mcclurkin\warren thing,
dionysus
Dec 2011
#234
Picking on Obama is, like, totally gonna bum-out the pep-rally... so like STFU already... (+/-)
LooseWilly
Dec 2011
#4
You posed this psychology because you wanted to imply that Obama supporters denied his
banned from Kos
Dec 2011
#43
And to some people it's about a very needful, but inherently flawed, thing called Knowledge. nt
patrice
Dec 2011
#50
Yes Dean wrote some good stuff about this mindset within the RW, the neo-libs are similar /nt
Dragonfli
Dec 2011
#222
I love out of control military spending and the specter of indefinite detention. no complaints here
think
Dec 2011
#11
Well, I agree some are exaggerated, but even the accurate ones are 100% defended by many. n-t
Logical
Dec 2011
#19
I hope you recant your positions with regard to the NDAA when found to be incorrect!N/T
zeljko67
Dec 2011
#39
In fact,l the candidate constantly complaining about 'Sanctity' is going to create
Bluenorthwest
Dec 2011
#96
Just remember that there are MANY different LISTS floating around on DU, they're not all the same
Tx4obama
Dec 2011
#37
Thing is, I do not believe that he holds that position, yet he continues to voice it.
comipinko
Dec 2011
#175
I agree that constructive criticism should be allowed. But calling Obama supporters 'Obama
applegrove
Dec 2011
#45
Yeah and... you think that there is not a small time revolt and dissatisfaction?
nadinbrzezinski
Dec 2011
#60
Actually, again poli sci or history... I will slighty differ from you in core values
nadinbrzezinski
Dec 2011
#65
"Defenders" is so passe'. I believe you have now been deemed to be an "apologist".
11 Bravo
Dec 2011
#90
Right on, Frenchie. Thanks for mentioning 2010. That's EXACTLY what happened. I heard plenty of call
patrice
Dec 2011
#56
You are wrong that many have complained since innauguration. It started before then.
styersc
Dec 2011
#105
You're right.A post about indefinite detention should not be met with a list of other stuff.
patrice
Dec 2011
#47
I also find my p.s. amusing b/c there are NO DUers that get paid to post lists about Obama here ;)
Tx4obama
Dec 2011
#71
It seems like both sides in this little internecine spat feel like they are the only aggrieved ones.
Pholus
Dec 2011
#82
It just seems suspicious that a few posters, whom I won't name, haven't ever found one scintilla of
totodeinhere
Dec 2011
#165
No but "Is every praise for Obama wrong? Or some people just don't like to hear them?"
pampango
Dec 2011
#83
I, for one, like Obama and really like all liberal/progressive things he has done:
indepat
Dec 2011
#185
And after the last reply has been posted, you can append "I rest my case!" nt
aka-chmeee
Dec 2011
#85
Those who demand 100% agreement do so for their own jollies as such a stance does
Bluenorthwest
Dec 2011
#87
Damn you for belittling my adoration of the man-God Obama, may he reign for a thousand years! nt
dmallind
Dec 2011
#110
What is the effect of the relentless Obama criticisim on potentially new DU members?
JoePhilly
Dec 2011
#121
It is the reponsibility of the people in a democracy to hold public servants accountable.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Dec 2011
#130
It's amazing that binary thinkers want to force shades-of-grey thinkers on a discussion brd to STFU
AnotherMcIntosh
Dec 2011
#161
A while back, Sabrina1 shared some sage advice: Try to separate the action from the person.
gateley
Dec 2011
#172
Sigh. You try to make it so cut and dried and it isn't that way at all. For example,
gateley
Dec 2011
#214
But the issues that Obama gets the real heat for are exactly the 'no-wiggle-room' ones
FiveGoodMen
Dec 2011
#237
Believe me, I agree with you on all these examples but I also acknowledge that unless
gateley
Dec 2011
#252
It's because of the over the top and inaccurate info being dispelled as truth
Capn Sunshine
Dec 2011
#196
no one thinks he's perfect. maybe the "defenders" (i see this talking point has spread quickly) are
dionysus
Dec 2011
#233
This is DEMOCRATIC Underground, not BITCH ABOUT OBAMA UNDERGROUND. We are here to DEFEAT the
RBInMaine
Dec 2011
#239
Underwhelmed by our capitulating, No hope , No change, not very liberal president.
Vanje
Dec 2011
#244
The specter of submiting Americans to extraordinary rendition in a country defined
Ferret Annica
Dec 2011
#250