General Discussion

Atman

(31,464 posts)

300. Bullshit.

Tue Mar 11, 2014, 06:29 PM

Mar 2014

I am the last person to offer support to "big tobacco." My dad died from lung cancer directly attributed to his 2-3 pack a day habit. But to say that "big tobacco" is looking for ways to keep tar and carcinogens in the hands of people is just crazy. Yes, they want to sell their LEGAL product. Any corporation would do this, try to maximize profits and shareholder value. That is what EVERY corporation is chartered to do -- return value to shareholders. Are they protecting their turf? Sure. Is it legal for them to do so? Sure.

Approach this from a different angle, though. This is a LEGAL product. We don't know shit about e-cigs. They could turn out to be worse than tobacco. We don't know. I think smoking is just fucking stupid...but why are e-cigs less stupid than regular ones? You're still inhaling a chemical. We may not know how bad this is for another several years.

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People who want to ban e-cigs are the useful idiots of Big Tobacco [View all] ButterflyBlood Mar 2014 OP

Not idiots. Assholes. leeroysphitz Mar 2014 #1

but it looks like people are smoking d_r Mar 2014 #2

There's always a certain type of people who yearn to be the hall monitors of life. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #3

There are always some people who want to be able to breathe clean air. pnwmom Mar 2014 #96

They Breath Clean Air In Riverside California ??? - Who Knew ??? WillyT Mar 2014 #107

In that case we need to ban cell phone Live and Learn Mar 2014 #203

Indeed, exhaust from automobiles is so deadly Mariana Mar 2014 #204

No one drives around with a car exhaust hanging out of their mouth. pnwmom Mar 2014 #206

Oh The children Politicalboi Mar 2014 #256

+1 Except that they are worse than busy bodies. Live and Learn Mar 2014 #263

Your argument would apply to regular cigarettes, too. And you lost that long ago. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #205

I lost what long ago? Freedom? Live and Learn Mar 2014 #254

I don't know if it's that simple sharp_stick Mar 2014 #4

But they will only get the beginners Revanchist Mar 2014 #97

They simply bought out other companies and Live and Learn Mar 2014 #264

maybe we don't want nicotine addicts spewing toxic vapors into our air supply. there is a better way msongs Mar 2014 #5

"toxic vapors into our air supply" snooper2 Mar 2014 #6

DEPLOY THE CAUSTIC VAPORS! ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 #62

cigarette smoke isn't toxic? dlwickham Mar 2014 #201

Why no, it's not Politicalboi Mar 2014 #257

People who vape exclusively don't smoke cigarettes anymore. That's the very definition of Demit Mar 2014 #12

It's not good enough for people to quit smoking. Mariana Mar 2014 #16

Oh, I know that. I just thought he/she/it should be provided with a helpful fact. Demit Mar 2014 #26

Fortunately, in my experience Mariana Mar 2014 #28

So not wanting to breathe in nicotine from someone else's mouth makes me a "crazy?" yellowcanine Mar 2014 #174

I don't want to breathe ANYTHING from someone else's mouth. Demit Mar 2014 #182

According to a study done concerning air quality in vaping. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #183

Correctimundo. Also let's not forget, it's not the nicotine that killed so many smokers anyway. Demit Mar 2014 #184

Yes, dang those "complainers" who would like to breathe clean air! yellowcanine Mar 2014 #186

I'm exposed to perfume, farts, urine, cleaning supply odors, scented candles, air fresheners.... Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #189

"sitting in the park puffing an e-cig" If only it were just that. But it isn't and I think you yellowcanine Mar 2014 #195

Lol, and where is this Shangri-La that has "clean air"? Demit Mar 2014 #198

Let me get this straight - because the air is polluted we should deliberately pollute it more? yellowcanine Mar 2014 #200

For the sake of argument, if it were proven that e-cigs produce less pollution than perfume en toto. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #202

Oh for fuck's sake. Demit Mar 2014 #211

Epic! Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #215

Red herrings and cursing don't make your argument any stronger. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #226

I shouldn't have called you a ninny? Demit Mar 2014 #247

According to a French environmental study, a two hour barbecue = 220,000 cigarettes... Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #252

Yeah well you brought up the strawman "puffing in the park." Way to shoot it down! yellowcanine Mar 2014 #298

L.A. brought up the 'puffing in the park'. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #299

Yeah well you repeated it in response to my post regarding clean air. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #307

"I'll amend that to big fat ninny." Wow, aren't you the clever debater?NT yellowcanine Mar 2014 #297

Yeah, since you WOULD be inhaling clean air next to a vaper sibelian Mar 2014 #249

"a study" ??? You have to do better than that. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #185

Have a link. On me. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #187

Thanks. Take a gander at the study sponsor's web page. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #193

Read this one then. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #194

Sorry - I don't play Gish Gallop. You gave your citation and it turned out tainted. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #197

Fine, but don't pretend you know the facts if you don't do your research. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #199

The study you cited was a selective review of the topic. A proper review cites all of the studies, yellowcanine Mar 2014 #223

LOL. beevul Mar 2014 #271

CASAA appears to be a front group for the tobacco industry. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #294

To those who see "big tobacco" hiding behind every twig and branch, I suppose so. beevul Mar 2014 #295

At these quantities, nicotine is not a danger to health... Mariana Mar 2014 #190

It is the very heart and soul of the Puritanism. Bonobo Mar 2014 #69

We can't have that!!! Gemini Cat Mar 2014 #93

Good grief! HappyMe Mar 2014 #20

+1 But that won't get any replies from the 'agendized' here. Live and Learn Mar 2014 #265

False Choice. Clean outside air and clean indoor air are not mutually exclusive. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #308

LOL. What a bizarre and irrational response. nt Romulox Mar 2014 #100

Yes, don't they know nicotine is an essential nutrient? yellowcanine Mar 2014 #175

OK, you're ignored. sibelian Mar 2014 #250

There needs to be research to make sure nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #7

I don't think most of them are afraid. Mariana Mar 2014 #11

I am not sure of that nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #14

No, no. I'm not an ex-smoker. aquart Mar 2014 #27

You are talking about smokers. Vapers are not smokers. Demit Mar 2014 #36

Except that some of the manufacturers don't see it that way. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #98

They don't expect you to try to light it up & smoke it. Demit Mar 2014 #112

You are complaining about calling it smoking - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #213

Some do. Some don't. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #216

I wasn't suggesting they all do - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #218

Selfish, smug drug addicts? Live and Learn Mar 2014 #267

I enjoy riding my motorcycle/bicycle without a helmet and driving my car without seatbelt Bandit Mar 2014 #15

We're talking about people who are quitting smoking Mariana Mar 2014 #17

We are talking about people engaging in reckless behavior, ie. putting poison in their body Bandit Mar 2014 #18

So you are all good with legislating HappyMe Mar 2014 #19

Are you good with helmet laws and seatbelt laws? Bandit Mar 2014 #21

Those laws are okay. HappyMe Mar 2014 #22

If you are going to legislate against reckless behavior that affects only that oerson then Bandit Mar 2014 #23

I'm okay with no smoking in HappyMe Mar 2014 #24

Exactly...The same as from nicotine poisoning or any other reckless behavior Bandit Mar 2014 #33

Oh okay! HappyMe Mar 2014 #34

Do you think it's better if they continue to smoke? Mariana Mar 2014 #25

I can think of quite a few RX drugs that are more serious poison... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #166

We're talking about e-cigs being marketed to teens, pnwmom Mar 2014 #32

I haven't seen them marketed to teens. Mariana Mar 2014 #35

Bubble gum flavors, etc. pnwmom Mar 2014 #37

Your issue is with the flavors? Mariana Mar 2014 #42

Adults who are already addicted to tar and nicotine cigarettes pnwmom Mar 2014 #44

There is no such thing as being addicted to tar. Demit Mar 2014 #48

Maybe thinking of "black tar heroin"? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #51

I didn't say there was. I said tar and nicotine cigarettes. pnwmom Mar 2014 #55

Your carpet is giving off formaldehyde jberryhill Mar 2014 #157

before you get all worried what might or might not be in the vapor Tyhanna Mar 2014 #160

I know more than a few adults who switched that prefer fruity/candy e-cigs to tobacco flavors. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #49

Exactly energumen Mar 2014 #67

its very obvious you have no understanding..... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #148

I'm an adult, I vape pretty much only fruit flavors/sweet. Kurska Mar 2014 #165

You really have no idea what you are talking about. nt Live and Learn Mar 2014 #268

Since you are an adult, you can choose between grass clippings, wood chips, and dirt flavors. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #45

Sweet and fruity flavors are already banned from tobacco products. pnwmom Mar 2014 #60

Why? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #65

Great! You go out and do that. pnwmom Mar 2014 #68

I don't have to. I can go the local vape store and buy what flavors I want. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #72

No, not really. energumen Mar 2014 #66

Not in cigarillos Revanchist Mar 2014 #105

Apparently Swisher Sweets don't exist. tridim Mar 2014 #139

Here you go: Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #94

Uh, Ms Toad, those are methods ALL OF ADVERTISING employs. Demit Mar 2014 #177

Fired like the ad team which came up with Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #207

I just wish they'd quit marketing life insurance to kids jberryhill Mar 2014 #210

Last time I checked, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #212

Alcohol is addictive and toxic. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #220

And, to avoid being externally regulated - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #224

Pharmaceuticals are heavily regulated jberryhill Mar 2014 #225

And available by prescription only. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #228

Could you provide an example of e-cig retailers marketing to youth? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #229

Joe Camel's creator owns an e-cig company Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #232

So Big Tobacco which has 1% share of the e-cig market may or may not be targeting youth. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #235

Which is the exact thing which was said about the cigarette advertising decades ago. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #244

You appear to operating under a misconception. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #248

Don't forget.... Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #214

As I recall, Joe Camel did not result in an increase in young people smoking. Demit Mar 2014 #234

Joe Camel and smoking Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #239

tl;dr Demit Mar 2014 #240

Nice of you to announce that your only interest in the is superficial. n/t Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #242

no, i scanned it. you're just repeating yourself. Demit Mar 2014 #251

4 lines of it was a repeat of a response in a different sub-thread. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #253

Good lord, do YOU need an education!! Cigarettes are FAR more expensive. Demit Mar 2014 #41

Cigarettes are not cheaper than e-cigs. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #43

Cigarettes are not cheaper than ecigs. nt Mojorabbit Mar 2014 #76

E-cigs are cheaper only if you consume a significant quantity of them. pnwmom Mar 2014 #95

You are wrong, dead wrong. Kurska Mar 2014 #167

Cheaper Cigarettes? Revanchist Mar 2014 #103

Cheaper? I'm down below roll your own costs now and still trending down TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #113

"...fucking hostile and contemptible in it's sweeping dishonesty." justabob Mar 2014 #282

cheaper cigs?...are you serious? backwoodsbob Mar 2014 #219

False choice. E-cigs are not the only alternative to smoking. yellowcanine Mar 2014 #176

Second hand nicotine? Desperate silliness more religion than science. TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #291

The difference with this is that WE pay if you have an accident alarimer Mar 2014 #75

+1 And exactly! Live and Learn Mar 2014 #266

You think research would make a bit of difference? JoeyT Mar 2014 #80

I feel the same way about methadone haters, those useful idiots for big heroin. Orrex Mar 2014 #8

It sure makes it clear Mariana Mar 2014 #9

Don't forget Big Pharma, with their expensive nic replacement therapies Demit Mar 2014 #10

Those things are such a ripoff. Mariana Mar 2014 #13

Big Tobacco has already moved into the e-cig market. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #31

Yes they have. But there are plenty of mom & pop businesses too. Demit Mar 2014 #46

I have done enough research to know pnwmom Mar 2014 #57

You know what you should do? Read the comments at that link. Demit Mar 2014 #71

I'm not concerned about the adults using it. I'm concerned about teens who haven't pnwmom Mar 2014 #74

Vaping is NOT more expensive than cigarettes. What on earth is wrong with you? Demit Mar 2014 #79

It requires much more of an investment to start, that only "pays off" when you start pnwmom Mar 2014 #83

I am a vaper. I don't think you are, right? Here's what it costs: Demit Mar 2014 #84

Vapor gets inhaled into the lungs, just as smoke does. pnwmom Mar 2014 #92

Holy moly. We've gone from 10 year olds to crawling babies now. Demit Mar 2014 #108

From the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, not that you will care. pnwmom Mar 2014 #138

wow they should know... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #161

Do you cook food in your house? jberryhill Mar 2014 #159

It is being marketed as smoking. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #104

you need to have burning tobacco to have smoke right? Everyone knows that.... N/T Tyhanna Mar 2014 #150

I was responding to a very specific complaint: Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #209

Does that change reality? Mariana Mar 2014 #172

It doesn't change reality - but I was responding to : Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #208

Perhaps you should use the terms that reflect reality Mariana Mar 2014 #221

Have you seen me refer to using e-cigs as smoking? Ever? Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #227

You're being disingenuous here. I'm the 'advocate' who said "Stop calling it smoking, Demit Mar 2014 #238

If you are bothered by people calling it smoking, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #241

No. When people hear the correct term used again & again (vaping) Demit Mar 2014 #245

Correct from your perspective, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #246

In the kitchen too! jberryhill Mar 2014 #301

Only if you plan on putting it in something which looks like a cigarette Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #303

That's easy, then. Mariana Mar 2014 #305

You're also probably not gonna put that stuff in your (non) pipe and smoke it anyway n/t Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #306

e-cigs are not smoking. n/t ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #90

I have in my hand right now a Rejuve brand individual e-cig. It cost $4.99. Comrade Grumpy Mar 2014 #173

Vaping is way cheaper for me!!! Michigan-Arizona Mar 2014 #304

Its just great when someone that knows nothing of what they speak... beevul Mar 2014 #126

Ding ding ding! rainbow4321 Mar 2014 #78

I can only add this: SheilaT Mar 2014 #29

It is not a form of smoking in any way. Mariana Mar 2014 #38

Same here, I loathe smoking because it has always made me so sick. Warpy Mar 2014 #40

People who don't realize that Big Tobacco has already moved into e-cigs pnwmom Mar 2014 #30

This falls in line with my thoughts on the OP... pacalo Mar 2014 #64

Exactly. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2014 #70

Another false perception. beevul Mar 2014 #129

+1 But don't expect facts to change people's agendas. nt Live and Learn Mar 2014 #255

I'd love to follow the money, too Warpy Mar 2014 #39

A big issue is that its out of their control energumen Mar 2014 #59

You are the useful idiot of big tobacco taught_me_patience Mar 2014 #47

There are many small business owners selling vaping products. Demit Mar 2014 #50

Very true. Brick and mortar e-cig stores don't usually sell the Njoy or Blu brands. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #52

Blu and NJoy comprise nearly 70% of the market taught_me_patience Mar 2014 #53

Specialized Statistics energumen Mar 2014 #56

That's the convenience store market, not the entire market Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #58

Did you notice the header says "In U.S. Convenience stores"? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #61

that is only the cig look alike market....... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #151

"sales in U.S. convenience stores" is not "the market" jberryhill Mar 2014 #302

No. Just no. beevul Mar 2014 #130

Big tobacco Tyhanna Mar 2014 #156

Control energumen Mar 2014 #54

DU is home to authoritarians of all stripes. We have drone killing apologists, war-mongerers, Romulox Mar 2014 #101

Would you mind telling me how the 'nicotine' used in e-cigarettes is manufactured and by whom. Tikki Mar 2014 #63

E cigs were just classified as a tobacco product at my work place. Kermitt Gribble Mar 2014 #73

I've been vaping for 2 months rainbow4321 Mar 2014 #77

"swaying the low-information public into thinking vaping is just as bad as smoking." yellowcanine Mar 2014 #179

It was NEVER about cancer from secondhand smoke Mariana Mar 2014 #191

Where does the nicotine in e-cigs come from? B Calm Mar 2014 #81

Tobacco pharm antiquie Mar 2014 #109

Tomato and eggplant leaves. TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #230

You truly could be no more wrong. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #82

The independent distributors are taking business away from Big Tobacco. Demit Mar 2014 #85

No they aren't. You will find no research to back up your claim. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #86

My receipts for vaping supplies are my research. Demit Mar 2014 #88

That is too funny. Facts don't matter. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #89

You moved the goalposts there. Demit Mar 2014 #102

I have moved absolutley no goalposts. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #110

You moved the goalposts. Demit Mar 2014 #114

"The independent distributors are taking business away from Big Tobacco." NCTraveler Mar 2014 #117

If you would have said... NCTraveler Mar 2014 #120

If I had said that it would've been incoherent. Demit Mar 2014 #171

Oh, I think at this point I'd give more weight Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #128

OK. Show me the facts from users. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #132

If you want facts from users, go to ECF. beevul Mar 2014 #135

This is getting too good. nt. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #137

Reading a huge forum of users provides the only facts there are. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #145

I'm a non-smoker, and tried e-cigs for a little over a month bhikkhu Mar 2014 #153

Thanks for your story, Its good to hear. n/t Tyhanna Mar 2014 #163

Completely false. beevul Mar 2014 #134

I think you make a fair point with the phrase "leading the way". NCTraveler Mar 2014 #141

Unless the market consist largely of beginning vapers... beevul Mar 2014 #146

I see no numbers in your claim either. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #125

I was not the original one making the claim. My points are accurate. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #131

Somebody has to poll consumers to determine market share. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #154

One company holds the overwhelming majority of the market share with e cigs. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #87

All of Big Tobacco combined has less than 1% of the ecig market. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #164

See? That proves that e-cigs support big tobacco! Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #192

Can you show evidence of independent shops selling to children? Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #133

If you can point me to where I said they are selling to children at the counter. nt NCTraveler Mar 2014 #136

How would independents without retail shops advertise to children? Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #152

Mmmm, right. That's why Big Tobacco is behind the major advertising campaigns Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #91

But the majority of ecig vendors do not advertise. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #116

It is well documented that nicotine is harmful. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #217

How much nicotine is harmful? Mariana Mar 2014 #233

Well - when people who are addicted to nicotine can satisfy the urge with tomatoes, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #259

Nicotine is a brain stimulant, like coffee. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #281

Just like cigarettes aren't sold to minors, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #284

What you're saying is simply not factual. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #287

My information actually is factual Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #290

Do you know for a fact they included independent sellers in their market research? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #292

There are three big tobacco e-cig vendors, and their market share does not equal 100% Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #293

I really doubt that it will play out that way. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #258

In 16 weeks, one tobacco company obtained a market share of 55% Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #260

That's "retail market share" but most of the market is not retail. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #261

I have tried to explain this, but my words fall on deaf ears and closed minds. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #262

I remain shocked, as I was on first hearing it Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #277

That is not a realistic projection - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #272

It's been working that way thus far with ecigs. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #274

Give me a single example Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #275

You like a particular wine, you find a better source. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #279

Not even close Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #283

Nope. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #286

DU is lousy with Drug Warriors and other forms of authoritarians. Romulox Mar 2014 #99

I see nothing wrong with e-cigs. If they are risky, then that should be known. I'm fed up with RKP5637 Mar 2014 #106

Not hall monitors�you are welcome to smoke, vap, toke* in your own hall�just not mine or others. Tikki Mar 2014 #111

Yep, agree, that's a good way of summarizing it! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2014 #115

Please don't use perfume, air fresheners, oven spray, bug spray, drive a car, ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #118

If it becomes bothersome, most establishments have the right to refuse service. Tikki Mar 2014 #121

...in the land of SMOG... ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #122

Apparently not many e-gigarettes help people quit the 'nicotine' addiction. Tikki Mar 2014 #124

It does not matter what I "know" about your cleaning habits. ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #142

Then why even mention it. Tikki Mar 2014 #144

Spraying our air with noxious cleaning products surely does ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #149

Vap away from those who are young and impressionable, don't fool yourself that you are not addicted Tikki Mar 2014 #169

I don't smoke. I don't vape... as I stated up above. I'm just not a jerk. ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #231

And you get this perception where exactly? N/T beevul Mar 2014 #147

That's exactly what it is. Mariana Mar 2014 #178

Driving a car in particular. Mariana Mar 2014 #123

Streets, parks, and beaches in one of the most toxically polluted environments in ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #143

Yeah I am getting sick and tired of my office mate spraying oven cleaner around! yellowcanine Mar 2014 #180

Yes, because that happens... ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #222

BIG TOBACCO OWNS e-cigs! graywarrior Mar 2014 #119

Your link says Big T is less than 1% of the market. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #162

Don't take my word for it graywarrior Mar 2014 #170

They're on the wrong side of history. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #127

E-Cigs = Less Taxes KharmaTrain Mar 2014 #140

I fail to see a problem Travis_0004 Mar 2014 #276

A Mixed Bag... KharmaTrain Mar 2014 #285

Electronic cigarette explodes in man's mouth, causes serious injuries TheNutcracker Mar 2014 #155

very old story.... Tyhanna Mar 2014 #158

Chair explodes Kurska Mar 2014 #168

There simply has not been enuf research on whether chairs are safe. Demit Mar 2014 #181

I don't have a problem with chairs Kurska Mar 2014 #188

LOL! Demit Mar 2014 #196

Hey, people can get addicted to sitting, you know! LadyHawkAZ Mar 2014 #269

Chairs are a gateway drug to couches. -nt Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #278

Here's my baby Oilwellian Mar 2014 #236

That poor puppy... ScreamingMeemie Mar 2014 #237

LOL Oilwellian Mar 2014 #243

But it just isn't fair! Kurska Mar 2014 #289

Put simply, big tobacco doesn't understand the market as a whole... beevul Mar 2014 #270

Exactly. Waiting For Everyman Mar 2014 #288

They should be the future of smoking. gulliver Mar 2014 #273

How much money does the tobacco industry have invested in the e-cigs. randr Mar 2014 #280

The entire defense of e-cigarettes is that they're not as bad as regular ones. lumberjack_jeff Mar 2014 #296

Bullshit. Atman Mar 2014 #300