General Discussion

Ms. Toad

(38,717 posts)

180. As a sibling to two very troubled men,

Wed Mar 12, 2014, 09:50 AM

Mar 2014

one of whom raped and murdered two women, and the other of which has been in and out of jails and rehab clinics since he was 12, when your child does so much damage to people you love (or even people you don't love), believe me that thought comes to mind very frequently. That is not the same as wishing them dead, which is a termination of a life that is - my parents (alongside the victims' families) fought the death penalty for my brother until his sentence was reversed following a stay issued 36 hours before his scheduled execution. But wishing they had not been born feels like a willingness to erase both the positive and negative of their existence - and there is a point at the positive which is so outweighed by the harm they did to others that it is easier to think of them never having lived (even when it means releasing your hold on the good) than to live with the guilt and pain associated with the harm they have brought with them.

My parents never said that out loud to a reporter, but I heard it privately at least from my mother.

It is not an easy place to be - so unless you have walked a mile (or a thousand) in Mr. Lanza's shoes, as I have, it would be kinder for you not to judge him.

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Adam Lanza�s Father, in First Public Comments, Says �You Can�t Get Any More Evil� [View all] SecularMotion Mar 2014 OP

any mention about all the guns ? JI7 Mar 2014 #1

That's my question as well... Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #5

Guns Are NEVER To Blame SoCalMusicLover Mar 2014 #63

Umm, he wasn't the one with the guns...It's was his son's first victim... Ecumenist Mar 2014 #81

you're Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #90

guns, smuns. What father says this about his own son? How about roguevalley Mar 2014 #98

my thoughts exactly Tumbulu Mar 2014 #104

I think if my child Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #130

Do you even know if he has guns? pnwmom Mar 2014 #103

As I recall, it was the mother who was the gun nut. WatermelonRat Mar 2014 #85

That shows how Lanza got to the state where he thought BainsBane Mar 2014 #2

What leads you to believe he was an "awful father?" Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #7

He said his son was evil. He hadn't seen him for two years. BainsBane Mar 2014 #16

Huh? And you know that ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #25

And in fact father tried to contact his son, but son didn't want to see his father. LisaL Mar 2014 #26

well, hell, that's GOT to be dad's fault. That would make me so f&&&ing angry I ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #30

Might want to consider using the sarcasm thingy missingthebigdog Mar 2014 #62

Yeah, a sarcasm alert would really be a good idea. Paladin Mar 2014 #76

Quite probably true. ChairmanAgnostic Mar 2014 #89

I know what is in the news article BainsBane Mar 2014 #58

Did you read the article? Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #91

he is. All of this may be true but what he said is very awful. roguevalley Mar 2014 #99

What do you Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #131

it is an old expression. It means sticking the knife in and twisting it after is doesn't roguevalley Mar 2014 #152

I had never heard that expression Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #188

I agree. It seemed such a betrayal for him to say what he said. Like killing the kid roguevalley Mar 2014 #194

Just pointing out something here. He said Adam was evil *after* Adam had committed the murders. yodermon Mar 2014 #106

yep, I am with you nt Tumbulu Mar 2014 #107

with all due respect, which article did you read? CreekDog Mar 2014 #123

I read the long one in the newyorker and this one Tumbulu Mar 2014 #149

he wasn't allowed to see him CreekDog Mar 2014 #122

I never saw Adam Lanza and I unapologetically declare that he was evil Tom Ripley Mar 2014 #140

Maybe... Lost_Count Mar 2014 #14

I'm saying a father who calls his child evil is a bad father BainsBane Mar 2014 #17

And not even the mother-of-the-year candidate who had custody was able to counteract ... 11 Bravo Mar 2014 #18

The mother is dead BainsBane Mar 2014 #72

No offense, but your argument is pretty over the top. Drahthaardogs Mar 2014 #75

Good lord BainsBane Mar 2014 #78

Please. Drahthaardogs Mar 2014 #79

Your contention is mentally ill people are evil? BainsBane Mar 2014 #83

Yeah, I really said that... Drahthaardogs Mar 2014 #86

Save your breath. It's what she does. She will quite literally make shit up ... 11 Bravo Mar 2014 #135

And, thinks everyone pintobean Mar 2014 #144

Jesus fucking Christ that is amazing joeglow3 Mar 2014 #95

We have some genuinely talented people on DU Fumesucker Mar 2014 #112

I don't know how I would react if it were my child. LiberalAndProud Mar 2014 #84

Is it disavowing a child to recognize when they did something terrible? haele Mar 2014 #186

Murdering 20 children is pretty damned evil. His father is 100% correct. arcane1 Mar 2014 #54

Incorrect....His Father Had Always Been Into Guns SoCalMusicLover Mar 2014 #65

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't aware of that, since so many stories were about his mom. arcane1 Mar 2014 #70

Many people grow up in households with guns, and manage to do so safely and without ever ... markpkessinger Mar 2014 #96

Blood or not.. Lost_Count Mar 2014 #56

blame the dad for the killing of 20 children CreekDog Mar 2014 #124

Wow, you are now an expert on him. How kind of you! nt Logical Mar 2014 #34

Actually I recounted what I read in the OP BainsBane Mar 2014 #74

I believe he meant the acts couldn't be more evil- from the rest of the article, it seems what bettyellen Mar 2014 #118

You seem completely incapable of placing blame where it belongs. Bonobo Mar 2014 #168

And yet we know nothing about the living situation. chrisa Mar 2014 #187

Um, Peter, no one is born evil KamaAina Mar 2014 #3

How did he raise him? I didn't catch that in the article. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #8

Well, I don't know, but it couldn't have been pretty KamaAina Mar 2014 #9

They had two children. As far as I can tell the older one is doing fine. LisaL Mar 2014 #24

Perhaps Mom and/or Dad turned their aggression towards Adam KamaAina Mar 2014 #27

Did you read the interview? LisaL Mar 2014 #29

Or, perhaps the coddling rewarded his abnormal behavior KamaAina Mar 2014 #31

Adam had no empathy. LisaL Mar 2014 #33

He was failed on so many levels. That article revealed quite a bit. kcr Mar 2014 #159

I don't think anything would have worked on Adam. LisaL Mar 2014 #201

Well, which is it? kcr Mar 2014 #202

Science and medicine right now don't amount to all that much when it comes to LisaL Mar 2014 #208

'the other one is fine' is NEVER a good response laundry_queen Mar 2014 #87

Here's a link to the New Yorker article. You should read it. He's not scapegoating Adam. smokey nj Mar 2014 #93

I read it. laundry_queen Mar 2014 #97

... all of which is still a FAR FAR FUCKING CRY from accidentally raising a mass murderer. yodermon Mar 2014 #109

I don't think it is a 'far' cry. laundry_queen Mar 2014 #115

Sorry, I don't agree and I know what a dysfunctional family looks like. I grew up in a big one. smokey nj Mar 2014 #129

I grew up with 2 narcissistic parents. That doesn't strike me as the main issue even if true- KittyWampus Mar 2014 #136

I thought that was odd, too. It's a way of denying responsibility, really. reformist2 Mar 2014 #10

How would you "help him?" LisaL Mar 2014 #22

Actually, they did a hell of a lot trying to help him -nt Bonx Mar 2014 #38

Not in the last few years. The father didn't even visit him anymore. reformist2 Mar 2014 #41

Father didn't visit him because Adam didn't want to see him. LisaL Mar 2014 #43

His son refused to see him Bonx Mar 2014 #49

I wouldn't have given him access to an arsenal of weapons. Crunchy Frog Mar 2014 #73

He refused to see his brother too HockeyMom Mar 2014 #77

yes, that would have been a far better response nt Tumbulu Mar 2014 #110

You know, I have to disagree. I think a few people are born evil. Shrike47 Mar 2014 #15

Well, the example of dick cheney comes to mind. calimary Mar 2014 #37

The article I remember (though not its source) catrose Mar 2014 #60

And how do you know that nobody is born evil? LisaL Mar 2014 #20

I'm sure he beats himself up every day, much to the delight of the pitchfork-and-torch crowd. chrisa Mar 2014 #189

Wonder why he had not seen his son in two years treestar Mar 2014 #4

His son as an adult and didn't want to see him. LisaL Mar 2014 #19

Wasn't he 19? treestar Mar 2014 #23

He was 20. LisaL Mar 2014 #28

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #92

If only there was an article detailing that... Bonx Mar 2014 #32

Very long, but read enough to see treestar Mar 2014 #44

Of course he should have never been near any guns. LisaL Mar 2014 #51

Off topic but I thought that was precisely the reason people keep guns in the house. Ed Suspicious Mar 2014 #6

I see and understand your point, and my idea is this, Bazinga Mar 2014 #132

i blame him Adam LAnza and both of his parents, they knew he had problems and didn't seem JI7 Mar 2014 #11

How easy for you to say..... Logical Mar 2014 #36

one has to be a fucked up gun nut to keep arms stocked , and this is after there have already JI7 Mar 2014 #45

She devoted her life to taking care of him and doing whatever he wanted. LisaL Mar 2014 #48

LOL! reformist2 Mar 2014 #128

There are 300 million guns, how often does this happen? nt Logical Mar 2014 #55

Once is too Goddamned often. (nt) Paladin Mar 2014 #69

AMEN Paladin Ecumenist Mar 2014 #100

correct answer! Tumbulu Mar 2014 #111

Oh really? Have you destroyed your guns? aikoaiko Mar 2014 #127

Not even a good try on your part, AA. Paladin Mar 2014 #139

I think it was more of a "I'm sure that my child will never have a normal life". Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #82

Why are there two version of the OP? Shouldn't they be combined into one? stopbush Mar 2014 #12

What magic do you have to merge them? nt Logical Mar 2014 #39

I believe the mods have that power. stopbush Mar 2014 #80

Not any more. Jamastiene Mar 2014 #176

Link to the actual interviews B2G Mar 2014 #13

This is one of those things you wonder about if you are a parent. stevenleser Mar 2014 #21

I think about that all the time. And I'm a mother of two. calimary Mar 2014 #59

we just dont know MFM008 Mar 2014 #35

Good post..... Logical Mar 2014 #40

It's easy to see he should never have been near any guns. treestar Mar 2014 #46

Well everything is easy to see after it happened. nt Logical Mar 2014 #52

It's not easy to have anyone committed these days. LisaL Mar 2014 #42

we should know not to keep arms stocked up in the home if your kid has problems like this JI7 Mar 2014 #50

This is the best reply here, imo. pacalo Mar 2014 #94

Having him committed was probably not possible jbnow Mar 2014 #126

I Don't Know RobinA Mar 2014 #153

Hello, Mr. Lanza? Why did you and your wife keep so many GUNS within his reach? Hmm???? Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #47

THIS!!! SoCalMusicLover Mar 2014 #67

Agreed. laundry_queen Mar 2014 #88

No kidding. jsr Mar 2014 #105

Yes, great points! nt Tumbulu Mar 2014 #114

You should print this & mail it to Mr. Lanza Bonx Mar 2014 #141

I thought he had been away from the family for years and the guns were Nancy's. Packerowner740 Mar 2014 #220

Both parents were "into" guns, so Adam Lanza was raised with guns being a part of his life nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #234

I googled it and couldn't find anything Packerowner740 Mar 2014 #235

I don't recall where I read it, but his lady didn't turn overnight into a gun nut after divorce - Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #237

Thanks Packerowner740 Mar 2014 #238

A very good man, to take responsiblity for this quinnox Mar 2014 #53

The photos show daddy Lanza indoctrinating his son into the gun culture, like so many dads nowadays. Hoyt Mar 2014 #57

If that is the cause why aren't there 45 million shootings a year? (nt) The Straight Story Mar 2014 #61

same reason not every drunk driver will get in an accident, doesn't mean when there are accidents JI7 Mar 2014 #66

great reply! nt Tumbulu Mar 2014 #113

The gun crowd just doesn't get it. Why we keep coddling them is a mystery. Hoyt Mar 2014 #226

What photos? Packerowner740 Mar 2014 #222

Oh come on, don't play like you don't know about gun loving daddy/momma Lanza. Hoyt Mar 2014 #224

I know about mom, I had just never read or seen anything about dad Packerowner740 Mar 2014 #230

I admit to aching at the a despair based on "it must be something I did or didn't do" HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #64

Perhaps His Upbringing Amongst Gun Lovers? SoCalMusicLover Mar 2014 #68

In hindsight it all looks that way... HereSince1628 Mar 2014 #71

I agree about the guns being a bad idea, but Jamastiene Mar 2014 #177

He was diagnosed Sgent Mar 2014 #192

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #101

Adam was not taking any drugs. Read the article. He refused to take any medication. LisaL Mar 2014 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #121

Incorrect? Read the freaking article. LisaL Mar 2014 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #151

Somebody here is ill-informed, but it's neither me nor the author of the article. LisaL Mar 2014 #154

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #156

He wasn't on any meds kcr Mar 2014 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #158

Show me your sources then kcr Mar 2014 #160

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #162

Well, no, that's not how it works kcr Mar 2014 #164

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #166

I'm sorry. I'll have to see backup for that kcr Mar 2014 #169

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #173

I do want to clarify though kcr Mar 2014 #161

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #163

Agreed on the guns kcr Mar 2014 #165

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #167

I have. Nothing says it takes years. kcr Mar 2014 #170

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #171

I don't see it. kcr Mar 2014 #172

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #174

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #175

Lanza was not on any drugs. LisaL Mar 2014 #198

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #210

I think you're misunderstanding my point kcr Mar 2014 #205

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #211

His biochemistry is not going to allow him to keep the drug in his system for years. LisaL Mar 2014 #213

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #214

There is not enough tin foil in the world. LisaL Mar 2014 #231

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #236

Adam Lanza WAS evil. MicaelS Mar 2014 #145

As a sibling to two very troubled men, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #180

+10000. I'm aghast at the "experts" on this thread proclaiming guilt and assigning shame riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #182

30+ years later, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #185

I'm deeply uncomfortable with the blanket critiques about the Lanza family riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #190

Our situation is more complex, Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #193

Thank you so much for this. I hope it sheds some light on family dynamics riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #195

Cruelty--AND self righteousness! nt tblue37 Mar 2014 #228

Is your brother still alive? In one article I read about one victim's family's visit to tblue37 Mar 2014 #196

I was friends with the minister for the Klebold family, Rev Don Marxhausen riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #197

In case you haven't seen it yet Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #207

He is still alive. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #204

As a general attitude our society seems interested only in revenge. tblue37 Mar 2014 #216

You definitely have the case identified - Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #219

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #212

This is personal DonCoquixote Mar 2014 #102

Thanks for the post, DonCoquixote! I'm sure you've educated a lot of people with this. n/t pnwmom Mar 2014 #108

That's interesting... and 2naSalit Mar 2014 #116

DonCoquixote... Dorian Gray Mar 2014 #133

I'd also like to thank you for your input. KittyWampus Mar 2014 #137

+1 Blue_Tires Mar 2014 #146

I don't get why some people are saying Asperger's had anything to do with Jamastiene Mar 2014 #178

That "no empathy" crap about Aspies really bothers me eridani Mar 2014 #229

for this Peter Lanza to wish that his son had never been born Tumbulu Mar 2014 #117

Of course Peter Lanza wishes his son had never been born. LisaL Mar 2014 #119

It seems very telling to me that no where in the interview Tumbulu Mar 2014 #155

But the child he had was clearly abnormal from very early age. LisaL Mar 2014 #199

I find it hard to believe Tumbulu Mar 2014 #221

I think the article makes it clear he was always abnormal. LisaL Mar 2014 #232

there was nothing in the article that said Peter Lanza had any guns at all CreekDog Mar 2014 #142

there were many other articles Tumbulu Mar 2014 #150

interesting, i didn't know that. CreekDog Mar 2014 #209

Lots of experts in this thread. Inkfreak Mar 2014 #134

You are lucky. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #181

Thanks for sharing something so personal. Inkfreak Mar 2014 #183

Fuck Adam Lanza. Fuck him to hell. I don't feel sorry for him even a tiny bit cali Mar 2014 #138

Deadbeat dad, clueless mom. They failed Adam. alp227 Mar 2014 #143

The father was not a deadbeat dad. Boudica the Lyoness Mar 2014 #148

Everyone keeps bringing up the guns. geomon666 Mar 2014 #147

Did you forget Jamastiene Mar 2014 #179

I was hoping I didn't need it. n/t geomon666 Mar 2014 #217

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #184

I see that the pitchfork mob is out again. chrisa Mar 2014 #191

I wish that Adam was never born as well nt MrScorpio Mar 2014 #200

This makes me sad. liberalmuse Mar 2014 #203

Stay together for the sake of the children? HockeyMom Mar 2014 #206

That is not what I meant at all. liberalmuse Mar 2014 #225

Adam was an adult when he made the decision to stop contact with his father riderinthestorm Mar 2014 #215

Okay... liberalmuse Mar 2014 #227

That certainly is true. Packerowner740 Mar 2014 #218

Man, there are a lot of fucking ghouls on DU lately. flvegan Mar 2014 #223

When every single thing has to be twisted to fit a specific agenda it gets really crazy Fumesucker Mar 2014 #233