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Nanjing03

(12 posts)

159. The SYG Laws Are Essential

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 10:57 AM

Mar 2012

Without the "stand your ground" laws, essentially an extension of a modified Castle Doctrine outside of the confines of the home, there could never be effective concealed carry reforms in almost all of the country -- so yes, it has everything to do with the 2nd Amendment. When applied as specified in the original intent of the bill in Florida and elsewhere, it is a very good law. In the Zimmerman/Martin case, the shooter stepped "outside" of the protections of the SYG law, pursued an innocent man on perceived probability, and gunned him down after initiating a confrontation. "Stand your ground" was nowhere to be seen in that scenerio. Zimmerman left any SYG protections back in his vehicle before he approached on foot. That is what will be seen following the grand jury investigation. In the end, there will be some modification of the post- use-of-force procedures, certainly to include a timely investigation, but the SYG law will remain in place.

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I'm gonna say it and I don't care what gun nuts think... [View all] LynneSin Mar 2012 OP

it's a paranoid gun nut's wet dream Skittles Mar 2012 #1

I swear to god this better not happen up here in the Northeast LynneSin Mar 2012 #3

That law calling for recip for CCW laws from other states HockeyMom Mar 2012 #33

Actually, no.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #38

They would have a major problem in NY HockeyMom Mar 2012 #44

It's always encumbent on a person to know the laws of the state you're in.. X_Digger Mar 2012 #47

We also know that the NRA and it's army of gun extremists want to force their... Walk away Mar 2012 #135

Unfortunately, by the time the NRA is done there won't be Doctor_J Mar 2012 #69

Nah, even in Heller, some regulations were explicitly seen as constitutional. X_Digger Mar 2012 #71

Really? 4bucksagallon Mar 2012 #113

Unfortunately it is happening here in Mass. DippyDem Mar 2012 #136

was he convicted of domestic violence? gejohnston Mar 2012 #219

I wish I could recommend this post to infinity.. Tikki Mar 2012 #2

If they are criminals to start with, yeah RobertEarl Mar 2012 #4

They are not criminals until they are... movonne Mar 2012 #6

gun nuts are dangerous and borderline criminals LynneSin Mar 2012 #7

! BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2012 #12

Absolutely spot-on!!! TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #17

When my husband went deer hunting HockeyMom Mar 2012 #36

So what's wrong with handgun hunting? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #67

Going varmit hunting with Mittens? n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #120

Going to treat the subject seriously? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #133

It doesn't deserve the serious treatement. n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #180

Why not? I honestly don't understand your reaction. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #181

If you don't understand... ellisonz Mar 2012 #183

It was brought up in post #36 by someone else. I simply replied. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #186

Handgun hunting? Bohunk68 Mar 2012 #124

I think it was sarcasm. n/t fasttense Mar 2012 #130

On the contrary. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #132

Oh...I must have just imagined this then: Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #131

Well said Johnney Rico Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #156

Hunting with a handgun is common and legal in many states ... spin Mar 2012 #235

are ya kidding me??? My hunting friends are gonna laugh at this fascisthunter Mar 2012 #145

See #131 Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #147

well.. alrighty then fascisthunter Mar 2012 #148

I'm glad you find an explanation of handgun hunting so funny. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #153

"Handjob Hunting" NBachers Mar 2012 #196

Um...okay...whatever floats your boat! Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #197

K&R TheCowsCameHome Mar 2012 #5

This is also why I hate these conceal and carry laws... cynatnite Mar 2012 #8

In most states a CCW requires some training and a background check TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #13

I've been in the military and I've handled a weapon... cynatnite Mar 2012 #15

Well I think getting handguns and legally concealing them aren't necessarily the same thing TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #22

the problem is that the "responsible folks" who own guns may not be "responsible" forever...but CTyankee Mar 2012 #29

Then we should repeal driving privileges for everyone too TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #37

So what is your solution? How do you keep the nuts from killing people so you can have your CTyankee Mar 2012 #42

What I say to his family is neither here nor there TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #52

Of course you are not responsible. CTyankee Mar 2012 #59

Once again you're putting the responsibility on the wrong party TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #75

That's it - let's do nothing and in a decade there will be another 100 million guns on street. Hoyt Mar 2012 #55

Many of us with guns don't believe in that ridiculous law TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #86

I'm a have a reasonable number at home, but leave em there, type. Hoyt Mar 2012 #98

News flash! Gun manufacturers make money by selling guns! Details at 11. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #158

Details -- If you make money off guns, you likely don't really give a crud who gets killed. Hoyt Mar 2012 #160

So what's your solution to this "problem"? Prohibit gun manufacturers from advertising Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #161

Society needs to look a guns like stinking cigars, swastikas, confederate flags, Republicans, Hoyt Mar 2012 #166

Rather than a rant about all the evils of the world, what *policies* do you advocate? Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #168

Yeah, evey gun owner claims to be a "responsible" gun owner. xtraxritical Mar 2012 #106

Gun control does not equal a reduced murder rate TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #122

Another NRA useless fact. Grinding poverty must have nothing to to with it. Walk away Mar 2012 #142

I suspect the fact isn't as "useless" as it is inconvenient for your position TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #204

But where are your NRA statistics about the murder rate in South Africa? Walk away Mar 2012 #237

Why are you insisting that I'm getting information from the NRA? TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #238

There are going to be another 100 million guns in a decade (or two) even *if* you do something. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #165

Then we should repeal driving privileges for everyone too AlbertCat Mar 2012 #56

I know analogies are sometimes asking a bit much of the listener TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #66

So I can conceal my car and use it to kill? Progressive dog Mar 2012 #129

you use your gun every day for work, chores and leisure? Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #162

You're exaggerating the analogy to make a point, but exaggeration isn't useful TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #211

When driving a car, you are required to attend a class, have a license and insurance... cynatnite Mar 2012 #97

That's for driving a car. But owning one doesn't necessarily require any of that TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #100

Sorry, I meant drinking and driving... cynatnite Mar 2012 #101

Well, cars kill more people than guns each year TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #108

Guns are designed to be dangerous...they are weapons. cynatnite Mar 2012 #111

Don't exaggerate my position TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #118

So fine. Keep your gun in your house. Take it out on the streets: get a license. Warren Stupidity Mar 2012 #163

I think most people agree that carrying it should require a license. I certainly do TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #207

This part confuses me...................... oneshooter Mar 2012 #220

Where I live any handgun must be registered with the police department TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #221

You went off the rails a little there bud. beevul Mar 2012 #208

This Is The Gun Rights Movement's Concept Of A Convincing Argument...... (n/t) Paladin Mar 2012 #222

I'm the gun rights movement now, am I? beevul Mar 2012 #232

What does a car have to do with a gun? That's one of the usual arguments the NRA teaches you but... Walk away Mar 2012 #140

First off, the NRA has never "taught" me anything; I'm not a member and never have been TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #213

And by the way, you most certainly CAN "drive your kids to school in a car" WinniSkipper Apr 2012 #251

CCW/CPW Safety and Responsibility Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #194

Excellent, excellent post!! nt TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #215

Whenever a friend or acquaintance mention getting a concealed carry permit, aka-chmeee Mar 2012 #141

wrong place treestar Mar 2012 #173

K-and fucking-Recommended!! madinmaryland Mar 2012 #9

+ whatevernumberispopular DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2012 #10

k&r rhett o rick Mar 2012 #11

Great post LynneSin. I've always thought this is like sex to these losers. F**k the NRA..n/t monmouth Mar 2012 #14

I don't know anyone veganlush Mar 2012 #16

I don't really know anyone who doesn't believe in the 2nd Amendment. TheKentuckian Mar 2012 #23

I'm against 2a fundamentalism. xchrom Mar 2012 #28

+ 100000000000 Hoyt Mar 2012 #57

well put. Exactly. NRaleighLiberal Mar 2012 #84

If only the wingnuts would use the rules of English grammar the 2nd would not nanabugg Mar 2012 #89

Putting innocent people in their graves is authoritarian...eom Kolesar Mar 2012 #34

Maybe, but I think such is beyond the libertarian/authoritarian/liberal/conservative frames TheKentuckian Mar 2012 #193

I read a very interesting piece in the NY Times about the U.S. Constitution's popularity with CTyankee Mar 2012 #35

The primary issue is ours is one of the first jeff47 Mar 2012 #224

A written constitution that is unworkable is a problem! What good is it if you can't USE it? CTyankee Mar 2012 #230

It's says the right to bear arms veganlush Mar 2012 #74

It's says the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. AlbertCat Mar 2012 #203

exactly veganlush Mar 2012 #234

So far veganlush Mar 2012 #77

As the country gets Bluer, i.e., more Democratic, thanks to demographics, the "gun rights" crowd is apocalypsehow Mar 2012 #206

Then you must not know 73% of Americans TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #26

tiny sampling poll, high margin of error. CTyankee Mar 2012 #53

The MOE is ±3 and the sample size was more than adequate TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #121

well, the moe was 6 and 4, breaking it down... CTyankee Mar 2012 #143

Gun Control Is Dead Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #177

Given the enormous amount of (mostly)Republican money that went into the coffers CTyankee Mar 2012 #179

The maximum MOE as explicitly stated by Gallup was 3 TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #218

Owning guns is a separate issue. I have no problems with that LynneSin Mar 2012 #87

I live in the south so I don't know anyone that doesn't believe in it. TNLib Mar 2012 #64

zero infringement? veganlush Mar 2012 #114

It is treestar Mar 2012 #174

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2012 #18

Yup, kick and recommend nadinbrzezinski Mar 2012 #19

SYG = my ego won't let me back away, so i'm gonna whip out my insecurity-assuager KG Mar 2012 #20

Wish that our govt killing innocent people with guns/bombs/drones got this much press The Straight Story Mar 2012 #21

+1000000000 L0oniX Mar 2012 #40

That would be nice, but your red herring doesn't make murder go away. HuckleB Mar 2012 #54

Government killing innocent people with guns/bombs/drones is predictable collateral damage indepat Mar 2012 #88

This horrible case is just what millions have been afraid of happening when this law was debated got root Mar 2012 #24

I'll say it again. I worked in a town for nearly 30 years rustydog Mar 2012 #25

K&R Eyerish Mar 2012 #27

Absolutely agree with you. crim son Mar 2012 #30

This law is legal murder plan and simple. southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #31

Legal murder? What an interesting concept. sikorsky Mar 2012 #45

Well think about it. southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #81

By definition, murder is an unlawful killing of a human being by a human being. Kennah Mar 2012 #104

aka, 'jumbo shrimp', 'military intelligence'.. etc. n/t X_Digger Mar 2012 #112

Yep and that is what happened. southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #134

I'll spell it out. Legal murder is an oxymoron. Kennah Mar 2012 #201

ok southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #209

On the question of "Is George Zimmerman an unindicted murderer?" I would say yes. Kennah Mar 2012 #212

Your right. But as far as am concerned he still murdered an unarmed young man. That makes him a southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #226

So then we agree he is an unindicted murderer Kennah Mar 2012 #246

ok, picky, picky, picky LOL I agree southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #247

I think it's significant since it appears we're on opposite sides of SYG Kennah Mar 2012 #248

Your right. southernyankeebelle Mar 2012 #249

This poster is no longer with us. ellisonz Mar 2012 #123

K&r nt abelenkpe Mar 2012 #32

I know you all don't want to hear this but everytime there is a DU poll about who owns a gun... L0oniX Mar 2012 #39

Absolutely agree with everything you wrote. nt TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #41

this has nutt'n to do with gun owners, just the kooks supporting the bizarre gun lobby law of SYG got root Mar 2012 #80

Agreed. Jester Messiah Mar 2012 #170

Post removed Post removed Mar 2012 #43

I vote for a constitutional amendment that legalizes human hunting. Kablooie Mar 2012 #46

++ Fucking Brazillions!!! jannyk Mar 2012 #48

Gun Nuts, in the old Moderator version of the DU this would have been locked. Not anymore! Logical Mar 2012 #49

And you can call the opposition gun grabbers too jpak Mar 2012 #229

obviously! Douglas Carpenter Mar 2012 #50

These laws have absolutely NOTHING to do with 2nd amendment rights. AlbertCat Mar 2012 #51

and possibly arming a future army consisting of glinda Mar 2012 #154

Not trying to be an ass here johnnie Mar 2012 #58

Ed Shultz just highlighted another case that just happened in Wisconsin due to the castle law TNLib Mar 2012 #72

That was a 20 yr old man hiding in an enclosed back porch in which he was trespassing at 2 am piedmont Mar 2012 #109

the point is there was no investigation and someone should not be shot just for tresspassing TNLib Mar 2012 #151

"After careful review of the evidence in this case, and for the reasons discussed..." piedmont Mar 2012 #171

shooting an unarmed man who is unlawfully on your back porch is not justified Self defense. TNLib Mar 2012 #175

They don't care because it fits their narrow agenda. n/t ellisonz Mar 2012 #182

I care much more about people being beaten, raped, killed in their own homes by invaders piedmont Mar 2012 #189

And none of these laws have anything to do with that... ellisonz Mar 2012 #198

an opinion piece written by gejohnston Mar 2012 #216

What are you talking about? ellisonz Mar 2012 #236

"Unarmed" has nothing to do with it. piedmont Mar 2012 #188

The homeowner has no way to know the invader is unarmed or that he's alone. AlbertCat Mar 2012 #225

You're making the point for the other side TeamsterDem Mar 2012 #227

Stand Your Ground = Open season on anybody that doesn't look like you.. workinclasszero Mar 2012 #60

That castle law in Wiscconsin is really scary as well TNLib Mar 2012 #61

What are 2nd amendment rights? Zanzoobar Mar 2012 #62

Something to do with well-regulated militias Doctor_J Mar 2012 #70

K/R Jack Rabbit Mar 2012 #63

Sure seems like it. They have had shootings like this all over the place, wherever they have those Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #65

Not for over 200 years. RUMMYisFROSTED Mar 2012 #68

I'll say it with you varelse Mar 2012 #73

What would Jesus NOT do? James48 Mar 2012 #76

A gun. A rope. What's the difference? It's the hate and fear we have to stop. n/t jtuck004 Mar 2012 #78

That is patently false. Lasher Mar 2012 #79

SYG Does Not Mean No Investigation Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #210

time to do to the NRA Estevan Mar 2012 #82

going to have a hard time with that belcffub Mar 2012 #99

A licence to hunt BROWN people. 6000eliot Mar 2012 #83

2nd Amendment is ... Joseph8th Mar 2012 #85

Yep. Rec. n/t. apocalypsehow Mar 2012 #90

Thank you LynneSin. Chorophyll Mar 2012 #91

What really makes me mad is Pakid Mar 2012 #92

Yup. aquart Mar 2012 #93

You're drinking from the "gun nuts just want an excuse to kill and get away with it" trough. krispos42 Mar 2012 #94

That Trough Gets Topped Off Every Day By The DU Gun Control/RKBA Forum. Paladin Mar 2012 #152

Jesus. krispos42 Mar 2012 #205

Ask Jesus For A More Compelling Response...... (n/t) Paladin Mar 2012 #223

The ignorance displayed by this post and the number of recs it has gotten... eqfan592 Mar 2012 #95

You don't think I understand guns? LynneSin Mar 2012 #115

Why is it you aren't aware of the law? AtheistCrusader Mar 2012 #117

You've never walked a mile in Trayvon's shoes. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #119

You have literally no idea who I am or where I've been eqfan592 Mar 2012 #137

Sure I do. And your nondenial denial is proof that I am right. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #176

Yeah? Well, just because of that comment, I gave another rec. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #191

K&R....n/t unkachuck Mar 2012 #96

I'm with you LynneSin Herlong Mar 2012 #102

Correct. WilliamPitt Mar 2012 #103

Selling guns is certainly selling a fantasy. applegrove Mar 2012 #105

If one is a knee-jerk judgmental idiot, this is true. flvegan Mar 2012 #107

Couldn't agree more. (nt) eqfan592 Mar 2012 #138

A) "Gun nuts" is an offensive caricature. Timbuk3 Mar 2012 #110

Read post #7- digonswine Mar 2012 #126

Yeah, sorry, but that doesn't work. Nice try tho. (nt) eqfan592 Mar 2012 #139

You can't be serious???? COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #184

So, if I bash "religious fundamentalists"... 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #185

K&R. And I'm going to take it one step further.. K Gardner Mar 2012 #116

+a million graham4anything Mar 2012 #125

Probably watch... beevul Mar 2012 #233

Which is why the NRA pushes them and law enforcement doesn't. polichick Mar 2012 #127

It seems the Confederacy The Wizard Mar 2012 #128

The South use to have the strictest gun control laws in America hack89 Mar 2012 #144

Jim Crow = Gun Control Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #190

not true gejohnston Mar 2012 #217

indeed... it's about creating a larger demographic for gun sales fascisthunter Mar 2012 #146

It also encourages people to kill rather than mame. DCBob Mar 2012 #149

"It's Past Time to Protect Children Not Guns" bread_and_roses Mar 2012 #150

I agree 100% liberal N proud Mar 2012 #155

The law is absolute bullshit. AngryOldDem Mar 2012 #157

The SYG Laws Are Essential Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #159

You're missing the procedural part of the Florida SYG COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #187

The State Dropped the Ball -- They Can Pick It Up Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #202

I don't disagree with your conclusions, particularly COLGATE4 Mar 2012 #240

Wow, how could America cope all this time without it? 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2012 #192

26+ States Have SYG Nanjing03 Mar 2012 #214

No they don't. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #245

i agree!!! GET RID OF ASSAULT WEAPONS!! trueblue2007 Mar 2012 #164

I agree. The mere fact someone is attracted to something marketed as an "assault" weapon is enough Hoyt Mar 2012 #169

wild wild west marshall gaines Mar 2012 #167

I agree, everyone could have a gun treestar Mar 2012 #172

Opponents Of Florida’s 2005 ‘Stand Your Ground’ Law Predicted ‘Racially Motivated Killings’ ProSense Mar 2012 #178

Yes and human hunters are a dime a dozen. lonestarnot Mar 2012 #195

"Guns don't kill people, People do". Yep - insane people who are allowed to have guns kill people. jillan Mar 2012 #199

I agree with Micheal Moore felix_numinous Mar 2012 #200

Like I said in the Gungeon earlier this week - The Backlash is Here jpak Mar 2012 #228

The admins have the ability to block you guys from posting in the GD forum. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #239

They can block "you guys" too jpak Mar 2012 #241

You're moving the goal posts now. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #242

Yes - "you guys" are so special jpak Mar 2012 #243

The goal post movers are here. Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #244

Remember Yoshihiro Hattori? noiretextatique Mar 2012 #231

Agreed. HopeHoops Mar 2012 #250