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In reply to the discussion: Water carrying apologists for the NSA/CIA are enemies of democracy [View all]woo me with science
(32,139 posts)98. No. But even if it had, it's beside the point.
This argument about whether the spying is *effective* is the wrong one and dangerous, because it appears to concede that safety might be a justification for trashing the Constitution. It's NOT.
Even if the spying had stopped a terrorist attack, it still would not justify trashing the Constitution and turning the United States of America into a surveillance state. The relevant issue here is that the One Percent are growing corporate fascism and using terrorism as an excuse.
There are only two real reasons they are building a surveillance state:
1) Total information awareness FOR PROFIT,
and
2) A surveillance state to prevent resistance by those being exploited FOR PROFIT.
Forcing every citizen to wear a personal camera and be accompanied by a government-appointed bodyguard might make everyone safer, too, BUT THE GOVERNMENT STILL HAS NO RIGHT TO DO IT. We are being propagandized to fear the danger of terrorist attacks, when we should be fearing the even greater assault of dismantling our representative, Constitutional system of government.
The Fourth Amendment does NOT say: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized....UNLESS IT MAKES EVERYONE SAFER."
We should not concede increased safety as a good reason for abrogating Constitutional rights. In the worst case scenario, I put nothing past desperate fascists who might try to *supply* proof of the grave dangers they keep telling us we face.
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Water carrying apologists for the NSA/CIA are enemies of democracy [View all]
whatchamacallit
Mar 2014
OP
I think they might respond that Democracy is overrated. They feel security is more important
rhett o rick
Mar 2014
#2
You should feel bad for those who have been exposed violation the Constitutional rights of the
sabrina 1
Mar 2014
#176
Wow its groupthink to like the Democratic President on a Democratic bulletin board...
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#171
because liking the Democratic President on the Democratic Underground is just
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#172
Is there a discussion somewhere about the massive spying on the American people?
sabrina 1
Mar 2014
#178
Libertarian absolutism strikes again. Sounds very right wing to me. 'Love it leave it,' and the
freshwest
Mar 2014
#150
They're either intentionally adding misinformation, or scared. It's fairly easy to determine which.
Scuba
Mar 2014
#5
I have said this from the beggining...the Internet has NEVER been private.
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#36
No I do remember party line....I also remember that we could just listen to other people
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#62
In that we are ALL using the same lines....there is nothing inherently private about it...
VanillaRhapsody
Mar 2014
#64
Don't worry, it's just meta data. See, data is metaphyisical and NSA is like a spiritual guru
pragmatic_dem
Mar 2014
#14
I think even Mz. Sarah, old "blood libel" herself would turn up her nose at this foolishness
Number23
Mar 2014
#23
Remember the segments on O'Reilly and Hannity when they did the List of American Enemies?
freshwest
Mar 2014
#165
Seems like you are holding Obama responsible for the actions of those agencies
whatchamacallit
Mar 2014
#33
Big Gov't-Loving Surveillance-Staters versus people who understand that without Privacy...
nikto
Mar 2014
#55
Countries with total control by authorities and spying on their own citizens...Iran..Korea..
Lint Head
Mar 2014
#57
It is a hugely profitable industry that they want hidden behind the veil of secrecy
jsr
Mar 2014
#105
So if you're the only one that cares that you put people on ignore, why announce it?
Number23
Mar 2014
#157
Oh, please. I have no love or hate for Feinstein. She's just another Congress-critter to me.
randome
Mar 2014
#125
Speaking of water did you know toilets are connected to an invisible data-collection network?
ucrdem
Mar 2014
#100
Right. The torturers, murderers, snoopers, are just poor, misunderstood, patriots..
Tierra_y_Libertad
Mar 2014
#107
Apparently, it's Obama who doesn't want to have a "reasonable discussion" about torture, etc.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Mar 2014
#111
Don't worry, the partisan zombies will oppose spying once a Rethug is president
LittleBlue
Mar 2014
#123