General Discussion

malthaussen

(18,531 posts)

26. Still not satisfactory

Sat Mar 24, 2012, 11:38 AM

Mar 2012

Since violence was hardly rational in any of the cases I cited.

And that word "rational," very tricky. According to the Randites, rational self-interest means that self-sacrifice is irrational. Not only would Mr Heinlein disagree, but there have been studies that suggest that self-sacrifice is actually pro-survival rather than contra.

Supposing you and I were to disagree, it would be rational for me to kill you, insofar as I would then no longer have to deal with the problems caused by your disagreement. That bare "rationality" would, however, be qualified by the fact that society has promulgated laws which stipulate penalties for myself if I kill you without being able to show sufficient cause. So when you speak of "rationality," what you are really speaking of is "a certain value of rationality."

-- Mal

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

52 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Why do we condone violence? [View all] malthaussen Mar 2012 OP

Because we're a bunch of friken ANIMALS. MADem Mar 2012 #1

Except, MADem, that animals are not nearly so violent malthaussen Mar 2012 #2

Sure they are--when it matters to them. It just matters less. MADem Mar 2012 #4

Fair distinction malthaussen Mar 2012 #6

Valid question. MADem Mar 2012 #29

Wouldn't that be predicated on the assumption... malthaussen Mar 2012 #30

Or maybe it's all down to "There's money to be made?" MADem Mar 2012 #31

If I didn't know better, I'd suspect you of cynicism. malthaussen Mar 2012 #32

Maybe murder and rape have come to be regarded as the cost of doing business? MADem Mar 2012 #33

And of course, in cases of rape, she's only a woman malthaussen Mar 2012 #34

It's a rather odious theory--but that doesn't make it untrue. MADem Mar 2012 #36

We are definitely competition-oriented, to extremes malthaussen Mar 2012 #38

Indeed. MADem Mar 2012 #39

Ever see the BC comic about golf? malthaussen Mar 2012 #40

Feuerstein is a bit of a local hero--his story is oft-repeated in MA. MADem Mar 2012 #41

I am far too inflexible to swing a club malthaussen Mar 2012 #47

You'd enjoy a "best ball" game. MADem Mar 2012 #49

George MacDonald Fraser malthaussen Mar 2012 #51

We've added the violent tendencies of the reptilian cortex into an active forebrain IDemo Mar 2012 #5

Stipulate that this is true malthaussen Mar 2012 #7

Stipulate which - the human brain structure, or that violence feels good? IDemo Mar 2012 #10

I was thinking more along the lines of a social "cure," malthaussen Mar 2012 #15

Chimps can be quite violent with one another RZM Mar 2012 #22

Yeah, apes even make war on other apes malthaussen Mar 2012 #23

Because basically we are killer apes. hobbit709 Mar 2012 #3

It's that whole survival of the fittest thing that we have instilled in our culture. TNLib Mar 2012 #8

But the question is, if you want to buy the Social Darwinism line malthaussen Mar 2012 #9

They are pro-survival TNLib Mar 2012 #13

Pro- for the individual or clan, perhaps, Ron Green Mar 2012 #14

Which leads us to the question... malthaussen Mar 2012 #16

Good OP with essential question, but I wish you'd been able to write it without BlueIris Mar 2012 #11

We don't just condone violence, it's our national religion gratuitous Mar 2012 #12

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." Isaac Asimov Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2012 #17

But Ikey was wrong. malthaussen Mar 2012 #18

I certainly don't disagree with you lunatica Mar 2012 #19

IMO the problem is the popular belief in the need to "let off steam" Odin2005 Mar 2012 #20

It's part of the human condition. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #21

Laws are formulated to regulate the human condition malthaussen Mar 2012 #24

Laws which frequently regulate violence rather than prohibit it. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #25

Still not satisfactory malthaussen Mar 2012 #26

You mentioned war, and war is sometimes (certainly not always) a rational choice. Johnny Rico Mar 2012 #27

You and Prof de la Paz both malthaussen Mar 2012 #28

It's a very American thing handa Mar 2012 #35

Well, now, depends on your perspective malthaussen Mar 2012 #37

At what point do you prove the assertion that "we condone violence" please? flvegan Mar 2012 #42

At no point malthaussen Mar 2012 #45

Are you referring to that asshole Jim Rome? JonLP24 Mar 2012 #43

Thanks for refreshing my memory malthaussen Mar 2012 #46

I said what he did was wrong JonLP24 Mar 2012 #48

You did say it was wrong malthaussen Mar 2012 #50

Did Rome want to press charges? JonLP24 Mar 2012 #52

America has been at war for about 212 years out of its 236 year existence chnoutte Mar 2012 #44