General Discussion

brush

(61,033 posts)

133. I said in my first paragraph that . . .

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 08:18 AM

Mar 2014

what Snowden revealed about domestic spying was a good thing. See my quote below:

"I'm not a Snowdenista but I do think he did a good thing in exposing the NSA's domestic spying. Where I think he and Greenwald went wrong is in revealing intricacies of our international covert operations."

Again, this Snowden story has a dichotomy that his fans don't seem to want acknowledge. Revealing domestic spying by the NSA is admirable, revealing intricacies of his own country's international covert operations is not, and IMO, where he and Greenwald went off the rails and came dangerously close to sedition — some say it is sedition, even treason. As it lies now, I'll just call him a defector.

It seems Greenwald recruited him and the naive, 29-year-old right winger was off to the races working to take classified info about not only domestic spying but also about our international covert operations from his job. As we know he then fled the country, most likely with Greenwald's assistance.

It worked out well for Greenwald — what with his newly financed media venture and the press coverage and humanitarian awards. For Snowden, not so much.

Wonder if Eddie, now holed up in Russia and having to periodically come out and kiss Putin's . . . er ah . . . extoll Putin's and Russia's human rights virtues, is thinking he might have been used just a touch?

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Snowden hate... I don't understand it... ? [View all] ReverendDeuce Mar 2014 OP

It's mockery, not hatred. randome Mar 2014 #1

The total lack of response to Snowden's "disclosures" are proof positive MannyGoldstein Mar 2014 #4

HIS GIRLFRIEND!!!!111!!!!!!11! morningfog Mar 2014 #11

Yeah, he broke up with his girlfriend, an unforgivable sin in the eyes of NSA apologists. Scuba Mar 2014 #18

There is a statute of limitation on gross violations of the American people's Constitutional sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #79

You could stop the metadata collection tomorrow and it would mean nothing to me. randome Mar 2014 #80

The law has 'allowed' many things throughout history. Such laws were overturned due to being sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #81

That's a very clever way to rationalize giving column inches to gossip about a non-important person LanternWaste Mar 2014 #82

There's two reasons to hate Snowden ... Scuba Mar 2014 #2

He's criminal. We must punish him. BTW ...what ever happened with that Bush war criminal thing? L0oniX Mar 2014 #37

+1000 Mojorabbit Mar 2014 #96

Here are some other reasons for Snowden doubters brush Mar 2014 #104

So, what do you think about the massive spying on the American people, clearly a gross sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #132

I said in my first paragraph that . . . brush Mar 2014 #133

All speculation and CTs. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #135

Did you not comprehend my first sentence? brush Mar 2014 #137

Yes, I did and I agree with you on that, but disagree about everything else you said. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #140

All that's well and good . . . brush Mar 2014 #144

No, not on their own, and neither will we. However, already there is a move to create sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #145

It is all the same program. There is no real distinction between foreign and domestic, with the RC Mar 2014 #158

So Snowden divulging details of covert INTERNATIONAL operations and operatives . . . brush Mar 2014 #162

That really does sum it up nicely. reformist2 Mar 2014 #157

There are a lot more rank and file Democratic authoritarians than I would have guessed ten years ago Fumesucker Mar 2014 #3

Winston Smith learned to love Big Brother. Downwinder Mar 2014 #7

I don't think they're authoritarians. If this had happened during Smirk's reign they'd be fans Doctor_J Mar 2014 #31

And the Republicans would hate Snowden if Romney was POTUS Fumesucker Mar 2014 #32

I agree with you. I naively thought that we belonged to the party that would end the abuses of power sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #139

Oxen have been gored. Big ones. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #5

Probably because some are worried about how it makes Obama look, and they are loyal The Straight Story Mar 2014 #6

How can I put this delicately. . . ucrdem Mar 2014 #8

LOL BillZBubb Mar 2014 #56

It is continued and expanded and made legal - albeit still unconstitutional - by Obama. cui bono Mar 2014 #66

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #59

I think the poster was being sarcastic. nt cui bono Mar 2014 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author polichick Mar 2014 #149

It is almost, without exception, from the Obama-can-do-no-wrong crowd. morningfog Mar 2014 #9

...^ that 840high Mar 2014 #38

CORRECT Skittles Mar 2014 #71

there is simply no excuse for ANYONE criticizing the policies of a Democratic administration - EVER! Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #10

That is it. Succinctly put. morningfog Mar 2014 #12

PROPAGANDA woo me with science Mar 2014 #13

+1 KoKo Mar 2014 #41

I'm just taking a wild guess here but JaneyVee Mar 2014 #14

He is not a defector. He sought asylum in a country he does not want to live in because the U.S. Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #27

It's a viewpoint that conveniently obscures the nature of the documents Snowden took. n/t winter is coming Mar 2014 #39

Baloney BillZBubb Mar 2014 #51

Just because you say so? I think not. Maedhros Mar 2014 #58

arguments that use appeals to nationalism bobduca Mar 2014 #146

What? Provide One Link that he "sold documents to a country that hates us." KoKo Mar 2014 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #60

He did not defect to Russia and he did not give Russia the documents, which is what you are implying cui bono Mar 2014 #68

And, sitting in judgement of someone else's hypocrisy while he's the biggest fucking Cha Mar 2014 #122

If it were Bush in office, DU would almost unanimously love Snowden LittleBlue Mar 2014 #15

Pew poll: Public Split over Impact of NSA Leak, But Most Want Snowden Prosecuted ProSense Mar 2014 #16

Excellent work on the propaganda! JackRiddler Mar 2014 #21

LOL! Yeah, I shaped their opinions. ProSense Mar 2014 #22

Then why do you bother? JackRiddler Mar 2014 #24

Speak for yourself Kolesar Mar 2014 #25

Thanks for reporting FACTS, ProSense.. Anyone claiming "propaganda" obviously Cha Mar 2014 #23

Damn, Prosense. Who knew that because of your posts on DU LARGE MAJORITIES of Americans Number23 Mar 2014 #57

CNN or Pew Research have very little credibility Matariki Mar 2014 #62

a lot of cons say same thing no? tia uponit7771 Mar 2014 #93

About CNN? Matariki Mar 2014 #127

I don't hate him Proud Liberal Dem Mar 2014 #17

Here...check out the EFF Site for Info.. (They gave legal counsel to DU when RW KoKo Mar 2014 #45

Prediction: This thread won't help. JackRiddler Mar 2014 #19

You Nailed it! KoKo Mar 2014 #43

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #61

Anyone who states that "Greenwald is a Libertarian" also goes on my ignore list. Maedhros Mar 2014 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #112

For a long time I resisted putting anyone on ignore. Maedhros Mar 2014 #113

The same reason people hate Rush Limbaugh or Ron/Rand Paul? ecstatic Mar 2014 #20

You asked, my answer is no. Wrong. cui bono Mar 2014 #69

All three (Snowden, Limbaugh, Paul) have been the designated targets Maedhros Mar 2014 #86

Exactly, ecstatic. thank you. Cha Mar 2014 #123

Hulk Mad - Hulk Smash Snowden!!! U4ikLefty Mar 2014 #26

Hahaha!!! Luminous Animal Mar 2014 #34

The hate is easy to explain: "Obama no like, so I no like." Vattel Mar 2014 #28

AS noted through this thread, there is a small subset of DU too emotionally tied to the president Doctor_J Mar 2014 #29

AS noted through this thread, there is a small subset of DU too emotionally tied to Snowden OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #46

No. People aren't in a cult of personality when it comes to Snowden. They actually support his cui bono Mar 2014 #70

I'd say you've answered your question correctly jimlup Mar 2014 #30

It's about the bullshit. jeff47 Mar 2014 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #63

Again, you make claims that aren't actually backed up by documents. jeff47 Mar 2014 #77

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #114

Excellent post. nt Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #88

If a person accept a position of employment then they accept the terms of the employment. Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #35

What a skewed viewpoint. BillZBubb Mar 2014 #53

Patriot? Oh, yea, a patriot steals security information and runs to Hong Kong and Russia. Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #72

It's the classic Authoritarian mindset. Maedhros Mar 2014 #87

Are you saying it is okay to steal, to be a thief? This should be a no brainer. BTW, my moral Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #110

So you would never steal? U4ikLefty Mar 2014 #136

You got it right Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #138

If you were starving, if your children were starving? U4ikLefty Mar 2014 #141

Is there anything wrong with asking for food? Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #142

I'm taking that option off the table. To feed youself and your starving children would you steal? U4ikLefty Mar 2014 #143

And just what would be wrong with asking for food for your children and yourself, to offer to work Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #147

I'm not letting you wiggle your way out of this. If you had to steal to feed your children, U4ikLefty Mar 2014 #148

Maybe you did not understand, so for you I will attempt again to explain. Rather than steal I would Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #155

Given the right circumstances, you would kill for a slice of moldy bread. RC Mar 2014 #159

Perhaps if you reread the post I did nit mention money, I said to ask and offer my services to Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #160

... sibelian Mar 2014 #78

Rules of theft should never be acceptable, if he has not gotten a grip of this moral rectitude then Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #84

Ignore list. [n/t] Maedhros Mar 2014 #89

Well, I'm afraid I just don't agree. sibelian Mar 2014 #95

Edward Snowden had higher morals than the people running the NSA, so he exposed their illegal RC Mar 2014 #161

If Snowden has higher morals than the people running NSA then they have low morals also, it Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #163

Snowden tried to work inside the system when he found questionable and outright illegal actions. RC Mar 2014 #164

This has never been about Snowden telling American citizens data was being collected, we Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #165

No, it does not make sense. RC Mar 2014 #166

Did you not know about the phone record data collection before Snowden "revealed" this? Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #168

You mean the lies the NSA was telling Congress about meta data not containing any personal RC Mar 2014 #169

No, I am talking about a news conference George W Bush had in 2005 where he said the data was being Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #170

do you feel that way about Daniel Ellsberg? Mark Felt (Deep Throat)? Frank Serpico? mike_c Mar 2014 #109

Did any of the ones you listed steal files from their employers and run with them to Hong Kong and Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #111

is it the stealing files that bothers you or fleeing persecution afterwards? mike_c Mar 2014 #116

Both, stealing is wrong and after his crime he ran for the arms of Hong Kong and Russia. Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #117

yes, but I asked you whether you condemn Ellsberg, Felt, Serpico, etc for doing similar things.... mike_c Mar 2014 #118

If they stole, then they loose any respect I could have for them, if after their crimes they fled to Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #119

well, thanks for an honest answer.... mike_c Mar 2014 #120

This message was self-deleted by its author Bobbie Jo Mar 2014 #121

There's the camp that hates him because he made Obama look bad. WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #36

He'd be considered a hero by all here if this happened under Bush. Vashta Nerada Mar 2014 #40

I often wonder if that is true. BillZBubb Mar 2014 #55

1. jealousy; 2. guilt. Smarmie Doofus Mar 2014 #44

That's IT. Spot on post. nt laundry_queen Mar 2014 #134

The NSA's data mining program, PRISM was begun in 2007 by George W. Bush and his administration Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #47

What good would attacking RW'ers at this point do for a program Bush put in place KoKo Mar 2014 #48

Wait a minute here, you want ONE MAN to singlehandedly fight against the Repuke scourge, Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #49

No Sarah, but he does control the Executive. TheKentuckian Mar 2014 #65

No, but I see Repukes supporting their Repuke leaders, while Democrats sit on their rears Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #74

Then get off your keester and DO something to change that rather than whining Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #76

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #64

Obama walked INTO THEM. The system was already in PLACE. Do something to change that. Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #115

You are NOT comparing Obama to Bush, are you? Please tell me you aren't. And Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #126

Do something, rather than whine. All I've seen is whine. What do you have to show for your Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #128

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #129

Oh wow, that's really painful. Good heavens. Some people do as much if not more Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #130

Hatred is not constructive. Maedhros Mar 2014 #90

True, but if hatred is going to be wielded, let it not be wielded against the wrong party nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #91

I have no use at all for hatred [n/t] Maedhros Mar 2014 #92

No? You don't experience normal, human emotions? nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #98

Anger, yes. Maedhros Mar 2014 #105

Difference between hate and anger please. Explain. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #106

Here you go. Maedhros Mar 2014 #107

I don't agree. I think hatred is absolute rejection of something. Anger is a violent emotion. nt Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #108

Right wing nuts DO blame Obama, plenty seem to be posting on DU uponit7771 Mar 2014 #94

Yep! There are right wingers on DU, and they try to pass as libs, but not successfully Sarah Ibarruri Mar 2014 #97

They are not your "fellow progressives" Corruption Inc Mar 2014 #50

I think you are correct! nt BillZBubb Mar 2014 #54

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #131

Administration brown nosers. Yay! Boss! Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2014 #52

I think it's easier to throw others under the bus, rather than to admit... MrMickeysMom Mar 2014 #73

Daniel Ellsberg had his haters. There will always be those who think anything the US wants to do jwirr Mar 2014 #83

I think my response to William Pitt's OP works here as well... stevenleser Mar 2014 #99

DiFi just gave all DUers more reasons to love Snowden malaise Mar 2014 #100

Snowden said nothing about the CIA. Why would he get credit for that? nt stevenleser Mar 2014 #101

I know he said nothing about the CIA but he opened a can of worms on malaise Mar 2014 #103

It's just "Shoot the messenger." Nothing else. Pholus Mar 2014 #102

Snowden is a stalking horse for the extremist RW baldguy Mar 2014 #124

Some people here don't like their emperor to be stripped of his cool threads. polichick Mar 2014 #150

Unfortunately his cool threads don't include a "comfortable pair of shoes". n/t cui bono Mar 2014 #151

True - just some flip-flops. polichick Mar 2014 #152

DUzy! truebluegreen Mar 2014 #153

Agendas in the morning, agendas in the evening, agendas when it's quitting time! Rex Mar 2014 #154

He didn't come out with all this information before 2008 and after 2016. Autumn Mar 2014 #156

I thought the leaks were necessary and a good thing. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #167