General Discussion

Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)

144. I'm just asking for evidence of your claim

Thu Mar 13, 2014, 02:32 PM

Mar 2014

I'm not arguing that e-cigs are or aren't safe, but I have yet to see any evidence that they aren't or anyone from the organizations you listed make the claim you say they have made. That you can't or won't quote them is notable.

Nicotine, while toxic in sufficient quantities, is the stimulant and addictive part of tobacco. Burning all the other chemicals contained in tobacco is what creates the significant health hazard. This much is known. What is not known is what health hazard, if any exists from nicotine by itself and delivered in a method which does not involve the burning of those other tar creating chemicals. Now compare this with caffeine, which is also toxic in sufficient quantities and is the stimulant and addictive part of many things. Now consider how it's used as an enhancement to the delivery of processed sucrose, of which there is a known health hazard to overconsumption. So which is a greater health hazard, nicotine delivered in e-cigs or caffeine delivered in drinks with processed sucrose? Keep in mind that caffeine in this form most certainly is aggressively marketed to kids.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

251 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Yes, it is about the children (E Cigs) [View all] nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 OP

Post removed Post removed Mar 2014 #1

Disgusting. Truly loathsome... you ought to delete it cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #2

Strong messages are what helped me quit smoking..isolation from others�the cost of cigarettes... Tikki Mar 2014 #9

Hmmm... was I talking to you? cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #12

Thank you, I will... Tikki Mar 2014 #15

We are all welcome to respond, but I didn't say you should delete anything cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #16

^^^ THIS ^^^ COLGATE4 Mar 2014 #10

Native Americans could just give up alcohol but that takes something they don't have joeglow3 Mar 2014 #4

Please delete your insulting racist stereotype post or I will alert on it. Zorra Mar 2014 #215

Alert. I will trust that people can exercise more common sense than you joeglow3 Mar 2014 #218

I don't actually understand how that would be proper sarcasm... Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #230

It was clear sarcasm joeglow3 Mar 2014 #239

It is obviously meant to be sarcastic. But the underpinnings of the joke are racist, regardless. Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #240

I alerted, but the alert got sent before I finished writing it. Zorra Mar 2014 #225

I am from the Midwest and have seen how devastating alcohol is joeglow3 Mar 2014 #241

I am from the rural inland Northwest, and have seen how devastating it is to everyone, Zorra Mar 2014 #247

Clearly it is bad for whites as well joeglow3 Mar 2014 #248

It is an addiction nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #5

Judgmental tripe. Feral Child Mar 2014 #24

Post and run addicts... one_voice Mar 2014 #34

why are you still allowed to be on DU? but that takes something that the admins dont have. La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2014 #55

I have alerted the post and provided a link to another hidden post... Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #75

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your alert Gravitycollapse Mar 2014 #78

You take this stance but CA will continue to vend cigarettes, cigars, and Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #3

This is great MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #6

I too hate science nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #7

Your own post= 'the science is coming...but they are bad!' Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #8

I'm still waiting to see the ads for 4th graders sad-cafe Mar 2014 #62

Hah! Shows what you know. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #73

HAHA that was good sad-cafe Mar 2014 #77

You're killing me, LV. Mariana Mar 2014 #80

! dionysus Mar 2014 #109

Until science comes in proving the safety of these nicotine-delivery devices pnwmom Mar 2014 #102

LOL, more paranoia!!!!!!!!! Glitterati Mar 2014 #243

The original bans of vaping? On nicotine? There were none. cthulu2016 Mar 2014 #11

No, no coflation at all nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #14

From one of your links: Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #17

For the same reason as prohibition MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #21

So early deaths due to tobacco are a conspiracy? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #22

There is no conspiracy MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #31

Your business becomes mine nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #32

If only that were the case MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #40

Well that is the case nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #42

That's some logic you got going there MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #124

Yup, you got me there, public health is totalitarian nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #132

No, controlling individual behavior MO_Moderate Mar 2014 #249

My lord, since we are stoping you from smoking nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #250

oh brother sad-cafe Mar 2014 #251

I wish I could rep this 10000 times sad-cafe Mar 2014 #190

By the way, I forgot, when did the FBI and DEA nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #28

San Diego County was the center of the 'Cannabis Panic' as well Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #13

Sorry, but F the children Politicalboi Mar 2014 #18

I do not have kids, unless the conures are considered such (just ask them, I think they will agree) nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #19

These days with technology you can get around it. Politicalboi Mar 2014 #23

We do coddle too much nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #26

Do me a favor... VScott Mar 2014 #92

Well, you might want to start lobbying nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #96

Oh and I will add, from emerging science nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #20

Nobody's saying to smoke at work Politicalboi Mar 2014 #25

I posted some of those studies nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #27

Thank you! PasadenaTrudy Mar 2014 #30

In this case public health nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #35

THANK YOU! NutmegYankee Mar 2014 #101

Given I am all but religious, let alone Christian, nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #111

Here we go.... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #29

+1 virgogal Mar 2014 #126

Oh, and by the way. If you don't like Big Tobacco companies buying up ecig tech... SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #33

Dont fucking like em? Dont fucking use them. bunnies Mar 2014 #36

You really think that marketing a nicotine delivery system to children should not be regulated.... NCTraveler Mar 2014 #38

Because they come in colors? bunnies Mar 2014 #47

Colors are bad, mmmkay? -nt Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #81

only black & white. mmmmkay. bunnies Mar 2014 #87

Please show me where I said they need to be regulated because of colors. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #117

Where did I state that colors are the reason for them to be regulated. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #116

Right. bunnies Mar 2014 #119

What colors did I mention? Reading before replying is important(to some anyway). nt. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #120

Well the cute little bears are brown. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #122

Other than the patterns, how exactly are they marketed to children? bunnies Mar 2014 #127

"Other than"....... NCTraveler Mar 2014 #128

Theyre regulated in my state. bunnies Mar 2014 #131

You really need to have a convo with the FDA then Glitterati Mar 2014 #238

yeah but... zappaman Mar 2014 #39

lmao. bunnies Mar 2014 #48

Great post nadine. NCTraveler Mar 2014 #37

I was yesterday, after I said where I finally made nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #41

Not to put too fine a point on it, but that is one of most illogical arguments I have seen. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #79

haha too funny sad-cafe Mar 2014 #82

Holy shit! Vibrators are being marketed to kids? Mariana Mar 2014 #83

Let's not forget the Teletubbies, the moral menace turning our American youth gay SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #94

While funny nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #99

Beau Biden? You bet jberryhill Mar 2014 #103

Law enforcement folks can be misguided as easily as the lay person. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #105

She is a reporter at present, with media card and everything. Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #106

Whimsical accessories were also presented by staff nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #107

Glantz? beevul Mar 2014 #114

Somehow these anti-regulation individuals have dishonestly convinced themselves... NCTraveler Mar 2014 #118

Libertarianism (not the philosophy) nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #43

I sure hope you're going after air fresheners in such an aggressive manner as well. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #44

You may want to read frustrated_lefty Mar 2014 #45

I am betting that the research is being done right now nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #46

Here's the problem. frustrated_lefty Mar 2014 #69

You might want to clue professor Glantz on it nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #110

Glantz is a well known anti with a well known agenda. N/T beevul Mar 2014 #115

I *think* I tend to disagree with you a lot...except not on this matter Sheepshank Mar 2014 #49

So stop the marketing to children (despite the fact I don't see that a bit). PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #50

yeah, but me me me Sheepshank Mar 2014 #53

wooooosh, right over your head PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #54

How is it being marketed exactly? Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #66

Why the hell are you posting a pix of smoking a cigarette in a thread about vaping? KittyWampus Mar 2014 #51

Started smoking at 14 smoked a pack a day to 24. Wish I had been using e-cigs. Exultant Democracy Mar 2014 #52

I remember getting sick when I tried nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #56

My family has a history of Alzheimer's, I wish I could have one cig a day, but there are so nasty. Exultant Democracy Mar 2014 #57

I think you are right, it is a tolerance issue nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #58

I think genetics play a big role in that... Hippo_Tron Mar 2014 #72

What about the children? Major Nikon Mar 2014 #59

You make light, m'kay nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #60

No it's not. zappaman Mar 2014 #61

no it is not! I agree with you Zappaman sad-cafe Mar 2014 #63

I'm around people who vape and barely notice it. zappaman Mar 2014 #65

totally agree sad-cafe Mar 2014 #84

Or what I posted is happening again Major Nikon Mar 2014 #88

I posted links to actual emerging science nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #98

You also ignored emerging science that contradicted what you posted Major Nikon Mar 2014 #104

At the moment, on balance, there is more on these things are nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #108

Which one of those has SPECIFICALLY said e-cigs are "not safe"? Major Nikon Mar 2014 #113

You can argue with WHO, CDC and FDA at this point. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #133

I'm just asking for evidence of your claim Major Nikon Mar 2014 #144

I cited some studies nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #145

I don't feel any obligation to prove what you can't or won't Major Nikon Mar 2014 #149

I posted those links nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #150

...which don't prove your claim Major Nikon Mar 2014 #154

When I get home nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #157

Apologize for what? Major Nikon Mar 2014 #161

There are more nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #169

For at least the 5th time (you were told several times yesterday) A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #64

I just read the article she wrote on yesterday's meeting. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #67

Spelling nannies.... nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #97

It's spelled out quite clearly in your Stylebook Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #100

No Nadine, it's called professionalism. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #112

No, in this case it is called a direct attack on the messenger nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #134

Look...correcting a glaring mistake in spelling or grammar is NOT a "direct attack on the messenger" A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #140

Spelling and grammar nannies nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #151

Oh, for fucks sake. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #172

I am just telling you the experience of many who have been online for more than ten seconds nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #173

Nadine, you will notice that I rarely, IF EVER post on a thread you started. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #176

Hence why I do not post that often any more nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #182

hum, what degree do you have? sad-cafe Mar 2014 #193

She has a masters in history (SDSU) along with a bunch of other stuff Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #197

wow sad-cafe Mar 2014 #198

if I thought the jury would do its job, I would alert sad-cafe Mar 2014 #195

Number of posts, last 90 days: 2860 pintobean Mar 2014 #206

128 OPs in the last 30 days zappaman Mar 2014 #212

Does 'This message was self-deleted by its author' count as an OP? Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #245

Yes. zappaman Mar 2014 #246

wow, you are a well-rounded woman sad-cafe Mar 2014 #244

And down the rabbit hole you go. tammywammy Mar 2014 #194

LOL....yes, I suppose you're right. A HERETIC I AM Mar 2014 #196

I earned a spot on that list the other day SirRevolutionary Mar 2014 #201

10000% sad-cafe Mar 2014 #192

credibility? Kali Mar 2014 #159

Apparently, she works for the AP now. pintobean Mar 2014 #166

Interesting link maddezmom Mar 2014 #167

That's Unpossible! Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #171

Good lord. n/t zappaman Mar 2014 #168

I just read the article you wrote on yesterday's meeting. PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #68

And it's amazing frustrated_lefty Mar 2014 #70

shocking. tammywammy Mar 2014 #71

Well, that is shocking. zappaman Mar 2014 #76

As I said in the other thread... Brickbat Mar 2014 #91

Your use of a picture of a cigarette when discussing vaping is disingenuous. tammywammy Mar 2014 #74

still waiting to see the pictures marketing them to kids sad-cafe Mar 2014 #85

Don't hold you breath (unless, of course someone is vaping 10 feet away from you). Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #86

Processed sugar is marketed to kids in all sorts of ways Major Nikon Mar 2014 #89

I agree sad-cafe Mar 2014 #90

I posted the other day about pipoman Mar 2014 #93

If you really care about the kids, worry about ... frazzled Mar 2014 #95

Be careful that you don't run into dubious science with other reg schemes. Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #123

No bad science regarding gun deaths frazzled Mar 2014 #125

So, what do you do with them? Eleanors38 Mar 2014 #204

This thread is all kinds of awesome... SidDithers Mar 2014 #121

Isn't it though? JNelson6563 Mar 2014 #129

Drug Warriors just *will not* give up the fight for anything. So, we find a new bugaboo. nt Romulox Mar 2014 #130

You are right nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #137

So it isn't just about protecting the children maddezmom Mar 2014 #143

If your argument requires such bizarre straw men, then what have you accomplished here? Romulox Mar 2014 #147

I took your statement to nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #152

"Logical conclusion" my eye. You made something up, then attributed it to me. Lame. nt Romulox Mar 2014 #160

Whatever dude nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #170

BTW--I'm an ex-smoker, since 2002. Never touched an "e-cigarette". nt Romulox Mar 2014 #148

I am glad for you nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #153

The effects of nicotine are well understood. Marr Mar 2014 #156

After the vapor menace has been dealt with LordGlenconner Mar 2014 #136

And there is emerging science to say these devices cause cancer Brother Buzz Mar 2014 #138

Until the science is complete, air turbines should be banned. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #139

Yes, the electric bolts of lightening or something maddezmom Mar 2014 #142

I have seen coyotes screaming and trying to climb trees. zappaman Mar 2014 #141

I saw the best canids of my generation destroyed by turbines, Codeine Mar 2014 #158

!!! zappaman Mar 2014 #162

The science is not in. Sissyk Mar 2014 #146

This is just embarrassing. Marr Mar 2014 #155

Nicotine is harmless... heard all now nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #174

In comparison to tobacco, it's *nothing*. Marr Mar 2014 #175

The jury is still out on that statement nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #177

The jury is most certainly NOT out on whether nicotine is more dangerous than tobacco. Marr Mar 2014 #178

Well, then... I guess we should just consider them safe as unicorns nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #185

You want to do what with e cigs? Ban them? Keep them out of public spaces? What? Marr Mar 2014 #186

None is calling for a ban nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #187

Nothing is totally harmless. But its about on par with caffeine, in and of itself. phleshdef Mar 2014 #228

kids mimic what adults do Kali Mar 2014 #163

I miss smoking American Spirit aikoaiko Mar 2014 #164

My friends who still smoke, all smoke this brand. zappaman Mar 2014 #165

I think its the no additives thing mostly. They seemed smoother to me. aikoaiko Mar 2014 #180

No, it not about CHILDREN HockeyMom Mar 2014 #179

So you think CDC is wrong and they made that up? Or for that matter researchers at places like UCSF? nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #181

Hi Nadin... I think you Opened up a Good Discussion fascisthunter Mar 2014 #183

Thanks, I think we need to discuss this in depth. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #184

I'm addicted to Nicotine fascisthunter Mar 2014 #188

My dad could never quit nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #189

Yeah, the Tone Does Makeme Think That fascisthunter Mar 2014 #191

Your links don't say what you suggest they do. DirkGently Mar 2014 #199

I am sure you will tell that to CDC that is also making those claims nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #200

I think everyone is in favor of safety testing. It's just not DirkGently Mar 2014 #202

Again, go argue with CDC nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #203

I don't think the CDC backs you up in the slightest. DirkGently Mar 2014 #205

Ok, you don't think so nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #207

Could the "increased rate" be as simple as "it didn't exist 10 years ago"? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #208

And Health Authorities are worried. nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #209

When was the last time "Health Authorities" weren't worried about something? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #210

"e-cigs cause spontaneous vagina dentata in men"? zappaman Mar 2014 #211

I was rather proud of that phrase. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #214

Look, I want that testing nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #213

-1 krawhitham Mar 2014 #216

I rather like the "gateway to smoking tobacco cigarettes" myth. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #217

So actual research flies in the face of actual logic nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #219

Are you kidding me? Check your sources, reporter! PeaceNikki Mar 2014 #221

I don't mind science. Bad science on the other hand is another story. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #222

But we have now research that proves you wrong nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #223

The FDA question is irrelevant to discussion of e-cigs being a gateway to tobacco cigs. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #232

No that is the CDC saying that nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #233

And let me add this for you, on the FDA vs the industry nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #224

So, the FDA approved cancer causing nicotine replacement therapy? Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #226

You do understand the difference in delivery methods nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #227

So, 10-15 years of clinical trials. From 2009 that puts a release date of 2019-2024. Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #234

I am sorry, if you do not understand why those trials are needed nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #235

We already have a Nicotrol inhaler on the market. (Gasp FDA approved inhaled nicotine?) Liberal Veteran Mar 2014 #236

You can have your views nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #237

so tell me, are you trained in pharmacology as well? sad-cafe Mar 2014 #242

A quality e-cig tastes better than smoking a real cig. phleshdef Mar 2014 #229

Out of these shocking myths, a few of them have not been properly tested nadinbrzezinski Mar 2014 #220

so you continue to ignore all REALITY based facts sad-cafe Mar 2014 #231