I'm gonna say it and I don't care what gun nuts think...

[TeamsterDem]

204. I suspect the fact isn't as "useless" as it is inconvenient for your position

Look, what you argued was that comparisons between countries with and without gun control for murder rates would tell us that we should ban guns. That was your argument. You picked Great Britain out of a hat because it happens to suit your position, but now you conveniently want to ignore that within that comparison group there are countries which cut wholly against your position; you want to simply throw them out of the group for the only reason that you don't like the result.

If banning guns will reduce murder rates, how do you explain countries with stricter gun laws having higher murder rates than we do? Poverty? Poverty murders people? No sir, people murder people, and what those statistics show - the result you're straining to close your eyes to - is that if people want to kill each other they will find a way to do it.

South Africa is an interesting example. Not incredibly poor, not incredibly rich, somewhere near the median world income. They are currently trying to regulate the guns and are finding that criminals are now using weapons which have never been available to their public - banned weapons. That of course is because you can't ban your way around problems, much in the same way banning marijuana here certainly hasn't stopped its use.