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onenote

(46,148 posts)
32. I'm going to take a contrarian position to the OP
Sat Mar 15, 2014, 10:38 AM
Mar 2014

Last edited Sat Mar 15, 2014, 12:09 PM - Edit history (1)

But before I do, let me make it clear that I think if, as it appears, Scott has made statements to his students that are disruptive to the class or create hostile atmosphere for students who don't agree with his extremist views, he could and should have been fired.

But school teachers and other government employees do not surrender their first amendment rights when they accept their positions. And as progressives, we shouldn't want it any other way.

A couple of general points: the first amendment does not protect a person's right to speak against non-governmental consequences of that speech. But the first amendment does protect speakers against the consequences of their speech when those consequences are the product of governmental action. In other words, the first amendment protects a person's right to speak without the government punishing (or rewarding) the speaker based on the content of their speech. To the extent that the government either punishes or rewards speakers on the basis of the content of their speech, it is on thin ice constitutionally.

We are all familiar of the numerous instances during the bush administration in which individuals were turned away from appearances by bush or cheney or other administration figures because of the message on a shirt they were wearing or because the event (not a campaign event but a government-sponsored event) selected the audience solely based on their political views. We were outraged by those instances. And rightfully so.

If a public school decided which teachers get promotions based on their political views, we would be outraged if a teacher who, on blog sites or elsewhere, expressed support for Obamacare, were denied promotions for that reason or if the only teachers to get promotions were those that attended an anti-Obama rally. And our outrage would be justified, because these would be violations of the First Amendment.

The school has exacerbated the situation in the Scott case by giving an explanation that is plainly pretextual -- the notion that Scott was denied access not because of his having posted about Obama on social media but because there was no room is simply not credible. Whether the school could constitutionally instruct teachers not to post about Obama on social media is itself a close question. But if (and admittedly it is just speculation on my part) Scott was not the only teacher to disregard the school's admonition but the only one to be held out from attending the appearance, he would have a strong argument that his first amendment rights were violated because the government was distinguishing between him and other teachers based solely on the content of their speech.

If it was reasonably concluded that Scott's participation posed a threat to the president or even posed a threat of disruption to the president's appearance, the government might have a basis for holding him out. But unless the Secret Service made some attempt to interview him and discern whether he constituted such a threat, that argument also would appear to be a pretext.

I know this post is going to upset some people and I'll probably be slammed for it. But my point is simple: if this had happened to a teacher who posted nasty comments about bush and cheney and that gang during the bush administration would you be defending it?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Righteous rant! Feral Child Mar 2014 #1
Thanks. No pony for him! riqster Mar 2014 #16
They all live in Victimland. Sarah Palin is the Victim in Chief. Scuba Mar 2014 #2
+1000 Tom Ripley Mar 2014 #8
Poor widdle cweatures. riqster Mar 2014 #14
At least he still his job. Some teachers get fired for: okaawhatever Mar 2014 #3
Christ on a pogo stick. riqster Mar 2014 #13
K & R. n/t FSogol Mar 2014 #4
Very well said! K&R 11 Bravo Mar 2014 #5
TY riqster Mar 2014 #12
I think in that jerk's case, actions should have consequences. MADem Mar 2014 #6
He's been the subject of student complaints. riqster Mar 2014 #11
If I had a kid in his class, they'd never hear the end of it, until he was terminated. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #18
That jerkwad seems woefully underqualified to be teaching social studies Tom Ripley Mar 2014 #7
Two students have asked to get a different teacher. riqster Mar 2014 #9
Good for them; I hope they succeed. Tom Ripley Mar 2014 #10
You know that a bunch of rwnj think you just said you hope the school leaves the union, right? nt okaawhatever Mar 2014 #15
LOL! Tom Ripley Mar 2014 #17
He teaches Anti-Social Studies. nt TeamPooka Mar 2014 #20
+1! FailureToCommunicate Mar 2014 #21
... riqster Mar 2014 #25
His claim is idiotic. . pipoman Mar 2014 #19
K&R thanks riqster! Cha Mar 2014 #22
Back atcha Cha! riqster Mar 2014 #28
.. Cha Mar 2014 #29
The meaning of the word "speech" agent46 Mar 2014 #23
Actually, his logic still sucks. riqster Mar 2014 #26
You're right agent46 Mar 2014 #30
This: riqster Mar 2014 #31
Randy Scott is such an idiotic asswipe..... AverageJoe90 Mar 2014 #24
He is, as one of my late great-uncles would have said, riqster Mar 2014 #27
I'm going to take a contrarian position to the OP onenote Mar 2014 #32
If he had complained about being excluded, that is one thing. riqster Mar 2014 #33
if he was singled out for his online anti-Obama crap, it absolutely implicates the first amendment onenote Mar 2014 #34
If you read the articles referenced in the link at the OP, riqster Mar 2014 #35
the school shot itself in the foot by giving a pre textual excuse for not allowing him in onenote Mar 2014 #36
Yep, that was a whole bucket of stupid there. Although it could be an HR restriction, I guess. riqster Mar 2014 #37
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